Show full transcript 1:06 That is chime.com slash SRS. 1:10 Sign up now. 1:11 It only takes a few minutes. 1:12 Chime is a fintech, not a bank. 1:14 Banking services and Chime Card 1:16 provided by Chime's bank partners. 1:18 Qualifying direct deposits required. 1:20 Terms and limits apply. 1:21 Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. 1:30 Perogie, welcome to the show, man. 1:32 Thank you. 1:33 Thanks for being here. 1:34 So excited to be here, man. 1:36 I'm pumped. 1:37 Yeah. 1:37 So our mutual friend, really good friend of mine. 1:41 Yeah. 1:41 And I think good friend of yours, Ryan Montgomery, 1:44 put you on my radar like a year or two ago. 1:47 And, um, yeah, took a minute, but I'm like, 1:52 I'm pumped that you're here. 1:54 We're so happy. 1:55 Um, it's cool when you have like a mutual friend 1:58 and brings two people together. 2:01 And I respect Ryan so much 2:03 and I respect the work that you do as well. 2:05 Thank you. 2:05 And your service to this amazing country. 2:08 And we were just even talking about that beforehand 2:09 and I'm like, oh my gosh, just the stories. 2:14 What you've done to serve this country, 2:17 I'm very grateful and thankful for. 2:19 So a lot of respect. 2:21 Thank you. 2:21 Yeah. 2:23 And yeah, I love what you do. 2:26 Thanks, man. 2:26 And so, you know, like so for anybody that doesn't know take care of scammers. Yeah. And 2:33 interestingly enough, my chief of staff here just uh, got scammed. Oh my gosh. And uh, 2:41 drained her life savings. And yeah. And even on the caller ID, the bank was USAA. It's even on the 2:49 caller ID said USAA and they called her husband and whatever random through gauntlet and you 2:56 You know what I mean and how recent like few days recent or like, like a month ago. 3:03 Wow. 3:05 We can maybe investigate that if you want, like I'll see you right on. 3:10 Well, I think, yeah, I'll, I'll have you talked to her, but, but, um, yeah, 3:15 it was you, us, they, how did they do that? 3:17 How did they get us a to pop up on the caller ID? 3:20 Like these guys are pretty good. 3:22 Like they can spoof just like we can even spoof numbers. 3:26 you can spoof the number. 3:27 And some of the times they'll actually have the victim, 3:31 like they'll say like, take your debit card 3:34 and then the number on the back, like punch it in. 3:37 But they're still on the phone with the scammer 3:39 and the scammer will like mute the line 3:41 and then say, oh, this is Brian with USAA. 3:45 And then the person thinks they're talking to USAA, 3:47 but it's literally like another scammer sitting next to them. 3:50 But then they do spoofing of phone numbers as well. 3:53 like what do you mean spoof? 3:55 Yeah, so they, they're essentially, 3:59 they can make it look like even though the FBI calling, 4:02 they can spoof the number. 4:03 So like if the number is whatever 888-225-2255, 4:08 they can make it look like any number that they want to, 4:10 or they can make the caller ID. 4:12 And it's all within the software that they're using to, 4:15 you can spoof the caller ID and make it look like anyone. 4:18 So if I was calling as someone's grandma, 4:20 I can make it look like it's that person when I'm when I'm calling to try to 4:24 scan them. You can make it show up as the exact same number. Yeah. How is that 4:29 possible? With technology, anything's possible. Yeah. Dude. Yeah. It's scary, but 4:36 like that's why one of the things when we tell like if you're, it's called the 4:39 grandma scan. That's one of them. Someone's calling like your grandma 4:44 pretending to be you. That happened to my grandma as well where someone was 4:47 pretending to be me. 4:48 The number one thing we say is to hang up the phone and then call that 4:53 actual person back, if that makes sense. 4:56 So they're spoofing, but they're not actually calling from that number. 4:59 They're making it look like that. 5:01 How, how do they do it? 5:03 It's with the software that they use their specific software and we can 5:06 even do it as well when we're messing with scammers. 5:08 You can buy phone numbers, um, for a super cheap, like we have 5:12 hundreds of phone numbers we can buy and these scammers are constantly 5:15 buying numbers. And then they're using the phone software to, again, if you have a victim, 5:19 you can change the caller ID really easily. It's all software based. 5:24 Shit. 5:25 Yeah. It's very scary, actually, as I'm talking about it. 5:28 Damn, man. I mean, I'm worried about it all the time, especially for my parents. 5:34 Yeah. 5:34 You know, they're getting older and, I mean, they're not used to this shit. You know, 5:38 and I know these guys are slick. 5:39 They're so trusting, like the elderly, the boomers, I guess, like, they're so trusting that you have 5:47 to remember like where they came from, where you could have your front door unlocked and 5:51 the milkman and all that kind of stuff, right? And now it's like they trust everything that 5:58 is being told to them. Like, there's a charge on your bank account and you need to fix it 6:03 right now by taking your money out and sending it to a virtual wallet. And these people believe 6:08 Believe it, it's very sad. 6:10 Geez. 6:12 Well, let me give you an introduction here. 6:14 Parogi, after leaving your career in cybersecurity, 6:17 you began live streaming scam calls on YouTube 6:20 and went on to build scam or payback 6:22 into the largest scam baiting platform online. 6:26 Through scam or payback, you infiltrate scam networks, 6:29 expose how they operate, disrupt their operations 6:32 and help victims of fraud. 6:35 So far this year alone, 6:36 your team has helped stop more than $200 million in scams. 6:41 Excuse me, $20 million in scams. 6:45 Today you're focused on fighting 6:47 increasingly sophisticated global scam industry 6:50 while teaching people how to recognize the tactics 6:52 criminals use to steal billions every year. 6:56 Beyond the mission itself, 6:57 you also use your platform to bring people closer to God 7:00 and offer hope and positivity in an industry 7:03 that can be dark and frightening. 7:06 Welcome to the show. Thank you. So a couple things before we get started here. Everybody gets a gift. Yes, I 7:14 Played sports so I can catch that 7:16 You might think like a computer guy computer guy can't catch the gummy bears, you know, so right on 7:24 Very cool vigilance elite. I love it vigilance league gummy bears made in the US. I love it. No funny business in there. Love it 7:32 No, uh, I 7:34 See vitamin D 7:36 I mean, there's nothing healthy in there, but nothing bad, at least right now. 7:41 Right. I like it. I like it. 7:42 This is, uh, I think everyone has to taste test it, right? 7:45 Yeah. Okay. 7:47 My, uh, kids are going to be jealous that I'm having gummy bears. 7:50 We'll load you up before we go home. 7:52 Very good. I actually have some surprises for you. 7:55 I know there's like countergifting. 7:57 Oh, nice. 7:58 Um, do you want me to tell you the surprises now 8:01 or how do we, how do you want to do this? 8:02 Whenever you feel appropriate. 8:03 Okay. 8:04 Yeah, we can do it now, if you want to get out of the way. 8:07 All right. 8:07 Okay. 8:08 Is that cool or? 8:09 Yeah, of course. 8:10 Okay. 8:11 Well, the first one is actually has to do with the gummy bears. 8:15 So we've been building a way of destroying a scammer's computer using your vigilance 8:24 elite gummy bears. 8:26 I know this sounds weird, but we're actually going to, a little bit later, remote into 8:30 to a scammer's computer and run a virus on their computer 8:34 that destroys it with a bunch of gummy bears on their screen. 8:38 And you're gonna be able to see it all happen live. 8:40 I know it sounds, I know like gummy bears are very sweet, 8:43 but these gummy bears are gonna like destroy 8:45 a scammer's computer. 8:46 Like they'll be like mid-scam. 8:48 And all of a sudden their screen's gonna go, 8:50 you're gonna be able to see all of it, it's gonna be fun. 8:52 Dude, I can't wait to see that. 8:54 Yeah, we can show, I brought my computer 8:55 to show you like live scams, how it works. 8:58 We can pull up some of their webcams too. 9:00 if you want to see, we can listen to their audio. 9:03 There might even be a live scam we could stop. 9:05 And I can kind of show you how that works as well. 9:07 Man, if you'd like to see that. 9:08 All live, not prerecorded. 9:11 It's all there. 9:12 I love this kind of stuff. 9:13 Yeah, yeah. 9:14 The other thing, I have two more things. 9:19 This is, I know Ryan gave you his version. 9:23 I don't know if you remember the hack alpettos. 9:25 Yeah. 9:26 This is the OG hack all scammers hoodie. 9:29 And it's just a gift from my team back at the office to you. 9:34 Um, and so it's, uh, it's our hackle scammers hoodie. 9:40 And that's kind of the motto that we have within our team. 9:43 Um, is hackle scammers. 9:46 So it's my favorite hoodie and it's our mantra. 9:51 That's what we do all day every day. 9:53 So love it. 9:54 Yeah, man. 9:55 Thank you. 9:56 So, the final thing, I was gonna maybe wait till later, 9:59 but this is actually, oh my gosh, this is funny. 10:04 I have a thing from Delta. 10:06 They left a card there, that's really funny. 10:09 This is actually, I don't know if you've ever heard of this. 10:11 This is the Kenneth Weast New Testament. 10:14 No, I haven't. 10:15 So, this is actually, it's just the New Testament 10:17 and this guy, he took the, like, 10:21 with the New Testament being written in Greek, 10:24 he took the actual translations of the Greek. 10:28 So, it's like more expanded. 10:30 It's a very dry read because it's not like in IV 10:34 being kind of like paraphrased and things like that. 10:36 I don't know what version of Bible necessarily you read 10:39 if you have a specific version or anything like that. 10:42 I don't. 10:43 Do you? 10:44 Yeah, I will read like King James 10:48 and then I'll also read ESV, 10:50 which is English standard version. 10:53 and there are differences, some of them being the actual translation of like word-by-word, 10:59 and then you look at like NIV, which is more of like a paraphrase. So this actually takes 11:05 direct translation from the Greek terms and puts it out. So you have like more context, 11:10 whereas it might be one or two words in the Bible, it's got like a whole sentence with 11:15 interesting. Yeah, based upon the times. So it's not like a very, I don't know, it's like a very 11:21 dry read, but you feel like you're getting more because you're getting the direct Greek translation. 11:27 That's awesome. So I read this one. I want to kind of study a little bit more, if that makes sense. 11:32 Thank you. You want to have like a little bit more of a contextualize because the Bible is 11:36 not just about like reading words. Yeah, that's one of the ministries. I just use that as a 11:41 bookmark in there, but you know, the Bible is not just about reading words, right? It's 11:45 life. It's light. These are true things that happened. And to have the context, the Greek 11:52 context directly translated is really cool. So you get a better understanding of what 11:57 did they mean by this? Because a lot of people want to kind of put their own meanings on 12:02 the Bible. Oh, this is just allegory or, you know, things like that. But that gives, 12:07 I'm not saying that's the be-all-and-all, but it gives a really cool translation, I guess, of it. 12:13 Right on. 12:13 Anyway. 12:14 Thank you. 12:14 Yeah, I use that a lot to kind of dig a little bit deeper. 12:18 Well, that'll come handy. I was telling you, you know, before we started, 12:24 because I haven't read the whole Bible. 12:26 Yeah. 12:26 And I get frustrated when I read it because I don't understand 90% of what I'm reading. 12:30 Yeah. 12:32 And so we're going to do the whole thing here on this show. 12:35 So, mate, are you starting from, like, Genesis? 12:38 We're starting from Genesis and going all the way to Reverage. 12:40 Man, once you get into some of those, it is, like, gnarly at the beginning. 12:44 I'm excited, man. I mean, I've read maybe 50% of it. 12:47 Yeah. 12:48 But, uh, understand way less than that. 12:52 But, um, yeah, we're looking for, like, the right guests 12:56 to go through each and everything. 12:58 And, uh, I think that's going to be awesome. 13:00 That's so cool. 13:01 Like, you're going to have on, like, pastors and different folks. 13:04 So like, how's that? 13:05 Yep. 13:05 That's amazing. 13:06 All kinds. 13:07 Really cool. 13:09 And well, I got a couple more gifts for you too, but we'll wait till later. 13:13 Awesome. 13:14 Thanks. 13:14 That's all I have. 13:15 I don't have any more. 13:16 I don't have any more. 13:17 That's all I got. 13:18 That's all I got. 13:19 I'll take them. 13:19 Thank you. 13:20 Thank you. 13:20 Yeah, man, of course. 13:21 So, I got a Patreon account and they've been with me since the beginning when it 13:27 was just me and my wife doing this in the attic. 13:29 So cool. 13:29 Of our house. 13:30 And they're the only ones that supported us at the beginning. 13:33 So, they get the opportunity to ask every single guest 13:37 that comes on the show a question. 13:40 This is from Austin Padgett. 13:43 I remember the early days of SP, 13:45 the small victories that came 13:46 from successfully harassing scammers. 13:49 How do those early victories compare 13:51 to the work you're doing today, 13:53 where the wins are bigger, the progress is greater, 13:56 and you're ultimately protecting more victims? 13:59 Well, it's really cool to hear, actually. 14:04 And one of the things I do want to point out really quickly off this question, I'll answer 14:08 it, but you know, like the focus, it used to be just kind of pranking scammers. 14:16 And I thought as long as they're on the phone with me, they can't be on the phone with 14:19 somebody else stealing money from them. 14:24 And I remember like the first time I ran across a victim, she had lost $36,000. 14:29 dollars. And she lost everything. And it was a real person in 14:34 California. Her name was Susan. And it changed everything. It 14:38 was like, immediately, this is very real, very fast. It's not 14:42 like doing voice changers and all these fun things. It was 14:45 like, there's actually somebody's life that's being 14:47 ruined. And once you realize that you have to do 14:52 something about it. Or else like, you're just turning a 14:55 blind eye to darkness, pretty much. 15:00 So that's why I decided to like step my game up and, um, really, 15:06 like kind of be proactive and like take it to these guys. 15:09 So, you know, the small wins back then were like, we called it like 15:14 reversing to the scammers computer, like socially engineering them to like 15:17 let us on their computer. 15:19 So they would call us and connect to my computer and then we would 15:23 send a request back to them and they would, 15:25 you have to coerce them into accepting the request. 15:29 So they get like a prompt that says like yes or no. 15:32 And then you would say things like, oh, on my screen, 15:34 it says yes and no, but it's not letting me click it. 15:37 Can you click it for me? 15:38 And then they click yes, 15:40 but it's allowing me onto their computer. 15:43 That was like in the early days. 15:44 It's so crazy to think about. 15:45 And then from there, you can see everything 15:48 on their computer and do everything. 15:50 So the little wins that that person's talking about 15:52 is like kind of destroying and trolling the scammers a little bit and then now 15:58 where we're getting to is like full-fledged like investigations stopping you know 16:03 multi-hundred-thousand-dollar wire transfers getting call centers rated 16:07 arrested people investigated indictments things like that and at the end of the 16:13 day man like I want to honor Jesus like I want to take this moment really 16:17 quickly and like literally everything that I do everything that he's blessed 16:20 me with like all the honor and glory goes to him every single thing with this channel with what I've 16:26 been doing it all goes to him. That's awesome man. I push it away from me and it's straight to Jesus. 16:32 So that's awesome. You guys know my schedule. I'm in the studio all day. I'm on the road 16:40 and I've got kids. The last thing I have time for is standing around a gym wondering what to do 16:46 next. That's why I'm on the ladder app. I've got a real coach in my ear on every set. What's 16:53 Why? It's a new plan every week that builds on the last and it goes where I go the garage with dumbbells or a hotel room on the road 17:02 30 to 45 minutes, and I'm done for less than a dollar a day 17:06 I've trained my whole life in the teams. Nothing. We did was random 17:11 Somebody who knew more than you wrote the program and you got results 17:15 That's the difference between working out and training 17:19 ladder puts that kind of real programming in your ear. Remove the guesswork with 17:24 ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every 17:29 workout. No thinking. Everything planned for you. If you're a guy who's been 17:34 meaning to get back to it, this is the way back. If you have an iPhone head to 17:39 ladder.fit.srs and take a quick quiz to get matched with your coach in the 17:45 right plan for you use my link and get a free seven day trial with no credit card 17:50 and ten dollars off your first month if you join man I just like I said I love 17:59 what you're doing and you know I kind of like Ryan was the first person that I 18:07 kind of talked to that you know dedicated his life to doing something 18:11 like that. And we took a huge gamble by bringing him on. But I saw him on the shitty, I shouldn't 18:21 say shitty, very small MMA podcast. And he's like talking about what he did. And I'm like, 18:30 how's nobody paying attention to this guy? And so he like angered me. 18:36 And you know what he's doing. I mean, for anybody that doesn't know who he is, 18:41 Hunting down pedophiles that are doing shit to kids. 18:46 Yeah, little crazy. 18:49 And, you know, YouTube doesn't like this subject. 18:55 Politicians don't like this sub, 18:56 like it's a touchy subject. 18:58 And I was like, I don't, I don't, 19:00 we had a lot of discussions about it on the team. 19:02 I was like, I don't care, man. 19:03 Like if this, if this is what takes me out 19:05 and wipes the channel away and they delete everything. 19:08 Yeah. 19:09 Like I could put my head down at night 19:11 knowing I tried to do a good thing. 19:12 and I wound up being the biggest interview 19:16 we've ever done still to date. 19:17 Amazing. 19:19 And so me and him have become really, 19:23 he's one of my best friends. 19:24 That's awesome. 19:25 He's now the godfather of my son. 19:28 And then he introduced me to this kid, 19:31 I guess he's not a kid, Schlepp. 19:32 Yeah, Schlepp. 19:34 Oh yeah. 19:34 And I brought Schlepp on and he's the one 19:39 that's like kind of exposing roadblocks. 19:41 And Ryan had a big part of that, 19:44 but Schlepp has dedicated his entire life 19:46 to exposing roadblocks. 19:50 And I was chatting with him the other day. 19:52 It was either him or Ryan, but actually I think it was Ryan 19:56 and I had told Schlepp, it was one or the other. 20:00 But anyways, since we've exposed roadblocks 20:04 on this show, as of like last week, 20:08 They've taken a $38 billion cut 20:13 in their stock, $38 billion. 20:16 We took like $6 billion in a week or a month or something. 20:19 And I was like, man, that's a big dent. 20:24 Now it's $38 billion. 20:25 You can look at the graph and it's just, 20:27 from when we released the first episode on it 20:29 to now it's just downhill, buddy. 20:33 And they didn't do anything. 20:34 You know, and then, uh, you know, I got a partner, 20:37 Sig Sauer that their gun manufacturer, uh, America made, 20:41 and they were using, they had their guns on the, on the channel. 20:44 And, uh, so I called my buddy Jason at Sig, 20:48 and I was like, I do like just so you know, 20:51 this is getting ready to come out. 20:52 And they, they have these games inside Roblox 20:55 where they've recreated all the active shooter events 20:57 like Columbine, yeah, dude, Columbine, Sandy Hook, 21:02 You'd all be all of them really the exact same layout in the school and then and you go in and shoot the victims 21:09 And the kids names like they got killed are above the characters in the game 21:15 And they were using a six-hour gun so Jason got legal involved over six hour and they pulled all out there like 21:23 Basically like we're gonna 21:25 Whatever they said probably something along the lines of we're going to sue your ass if you don't get our 21:31 our name off of your game. 21:33 And like, this isn't, you know, this isn't what we do. 21:37 And then, you know what I think now today, 21:41 but you've fallen the same category. 21:43 I mean, I don't know how many people are getting scammed today, 21:46 probably thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, 21:48 maybe millions, you know what I mean? 21:50 And it's a huge problem that the federal government 21:53 from what I understand really is not doing much 21:56 to address it. 21:56 But just like human trafficking, pedophilia, roadblocks, like sexual exploitation, grooming. 22:07 And so I really mean that, man. 22:09 I just want to commend you for what you're doing. 22:13 And I know it comes at a heavy cost, which we're going to talk about at the end. 22:17 Yeah. 22:17 I find myself absolutely dumbfounded that a publicly traded company has something 22:24 like that or is they're publicly traded you're saying wow that they would have within a video 22:33 game the ability to recreate those types of shooting events like it's just it's crazy 22:41 to me and for it to be allowed I don't understand that and it's like demonic it's it's not 22:49 like you're having to go to the dark web to find some kind of a crazy thing which 22:54 Ryan, Ryan, I've told him like, don't ever show me anything crazy. 22:57 You know, I'm like, we've, you know, we've gotten to like the edge of the water, you know. 23:02 And I'm like, I don't ever want to see that stuff or hear about it. 23:04 Like, I know he gets into the gnarly stuff. 23:06 And it's, and I think like, it's like a, it's a resource thing for whatever reason. 23:13 The government doesn't want to put resources to this, to stop this stuff. 23:18 Isn't it weird? 23:19 I don't freaking get it. 23:22 And if you asked every American 10 out of 10, 23:25 100 out of 100, they would say, yeah, I'd pay extra taxes 23:29 to have something go against all of this dark stuff 23:33 that's out there, man. 23:36 And yeah, ours is like, because our content is silly 23:42 sometimes, but the underbelly of it, 23:44 it's like it's really sad because they're not taking 23:50 a couple hundred dollars of gift cards anymore there. I'm literally watching someone yesterday 23:55 steal a hundred thousand dollars in crypto like go go into the victim's computer while they're not 24:01 there and go into their crypto account and transfer money from their bank account to the crypto account 24:08 and then send the crypto to their wallet and it's gone. Now I'm working with my people to 24:14 get it stopped so we're on top of it but that's just an example and that's every single day 24:19 And that's like one scammer. 24:22 And they're constantly doing this. 24:23 They're waiting for their victims to be asleep 24:25 to go into their computer without them knowing. 24:28 They're turning on their cameras. 24:29 They're creating accounts LLCs in their names. 24:32 They're stealing their identities. 24:34 Like, and it is, it's hard because the one thing I'll say 24:39 is that they're using our systems against us. 24:43 They're using like our banking systems against us. 24:46 They're using our shipping like FedEx and UPS 24:49 and things like that. They're using our shipping companies, USPS. They're using crypto against us. 24:54 They're using our big box chains, Target, Walmart. They're using all of technology, Amazon, 25:00 Microsoft. They're using all of this against us to steal, to literally steal the wealth away 25:08 from the United States, from our senior citizens. And it's a like, it's a very, it's an 25:16 emergency, in my opinion. 25:18 It's sad. 25:19 Well, we're going to get into more of it. 25:21 So before we, before I want to talk about this, this recent 25:26 thing you did, the $65 million take down. 25:29 Yeah. 25:30 Can we go into that? 25:31 Sure. 25:31 Yeah. 25:32 Where do we start? 25:33 2019. 25:35 Um, I'll kind of like give you what I started to do at first 25:41 that led to this, if that's okay. 25:43 Yeah, that works too. 25:44 So this, this is like from the Susan lady that I was telling you about where I'm like, okay, 25:50 there's just like grandma on the other side. Because what happens is if people aren't aware, 25:56 ideal scammers like in these call centers overseas and they pretend to be like Microsoft, 26:01 for instance, or Amazon or some kind of tech company. And there's like either a 26:06 fraudulent charge on your account, something to do with your bank account, or you've 26:10 been hacked and you have to save your money by transferring a bunch of money to these scammers. 26:17 And they pretend to be like the government, they pretend to be the FBI, they pretend to 26:20 be all these crazy things just to get your money. 26:26 And you get to this point, you're on the phone with them for like three or four hours 26:29 and then they're like, well, you need to send us money, but you need to go take 26:32 a bunch of cash out from your bank account, put it into a box and ship it in the US. 26:37 That happens every day. 26:38 Are you serious? 26:40 Hundreds of thousands of dollars. 26:42 People pull their money out of a bank 26:44 and put it into a box and ship it to... 26:48 They will ship it to random places 26:52 and these cells inside of the U.S., 26:54 these are foreign criminals that are not legal in the U.S. 26:58 They come here for these purposes 27:00 and they launder money. 27:02 There are crime organizations that launder money 27:04 for scammers overseas. 27:05 overseas. And some of these can be even tied to like terrorist organizations, I would assume, 27:12 overseas. And what happens is Grandma goes and gets her $50,000 out of her bank account 27:18 and they teach her how to lie to the bank. So the bank sits there and says, are you 27:24 sure you want to take this money out? And Grandma is like, yeah, I'm sure. I'm renovating 27:29 my house. And meanwhile, the scammer is literally on the phone in her pocket listening 27:33 to everything. 27:35 We watch this every single day happen. 27:37 Holy shit. 27:38 So they ship, they get the money out, they put in an envelope and then they put it into 27:44 a box, they wrap it with aluminum foil, they wrap the envelope with aluminum foil, put into 27:49 a box, they wrap that box with duct tape and they put it into another box and they 27:55 wrap it with like wrapping paper and then they ship it. 27:58 And then it's called Hvala, which is like a money transfer 28:02 system in these Asian countries. 28:06 And the Hvala person, they open up. 28:09 But usually they're like either staying at an Airbnb 28:11 or what they'll do is they'll scope out like houses 28:14 that are for sale that are vacant. 28:16 And they'll have the package sent overnight delivery 28:20 and it goes to that thing and they snipe it 28:22 and they grab the box. 28:24 They open it up and then they take film of it 28:27 and then they send it to the people overseas and then they'll turn it into Bitcoin or whatever. 28:32 We've also seen like gold. A lot of times they have the victims buy gold and ship it to their house 28:38 and then the criminal will drive to the house of the victim and pick up the gold. 28:44 Happened to my next-door neighbor, the craziest story. 28:49 Holy shit. It's kind of, it's a little hard to believe that people fall for- 28:56 Empty your bank account, keep me on the phone while you're emptying it, wrap it up in foil, 29:02 wrap it up in duct tape, make it look like a present and send it to this closed location. 29:07 It sounds so crazy and meanwhile the guy on the other line has like an Indian accent and 29:13 his name is like one of the scammers we dealt with, Alex Lebron was his name, Alex 29:20 Lebron. 29:21 Alex Lebron with an Indian accent. 29:27 I know it sounds stupid when you talk about this, but these scammers are so good, they 29:32 have control of the victim's computer. 29:34 They can lock their computer, they'll hold their computer ransom. 29:37 Just like ransomware attacks, they will lock you out of your computer. 29:40 They can edit your bank account to make it look like you have zero dollars, to make 29:45 it look like they put in 100,000. 29:48 They steal your passwords. 29:50 They log into your computer when you're not there. 29:52 they do all sorts of things, and these grandmas and grandpas that are very trusting, 29:58 they don't verify it with their kids, they don't call anyone. We dealt with a stroke victim 30:04 that we actually drove. She had had a stroke the week before, she was on the phone with scammers 30:11 and they had her take out $40,000 and she was driving to a gas station to put the cash 30:17 cash into a Bitcoin ATM and she didn't tell her husband anything and they were going to 30:22 lose all that money. 30:23 We drove an hour to the Bitcoin ATM because we had eyes and ears on everything and stopped 30:29 it before it all happened. 30:31 She had all the cash in her little envelope and was going to go put it and send it away. 30:38 And the crazy thing is we went to the bank and I told the bank, I'm like, uh, why 30:42 are you guys letting this lady take out all of her money? 30:44 and the banker got, the manager got mad at me and kicked me up 30:49 for saving someone that they just let get all the money taken out of her account. 30:54 She was mad at me. Wow. 30:59 I mean, I, I am guilty of getting pissed at the banks because it's so like, 31:06 like if you wire money nowadays, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it can become an all day 31:12 event and they, I get it, I get it, but man, it's frustrating, especially when 31:19 you're busy. You know what I mean? You need to wire money to this, whatever. 31:22 And they're like, well, who, who are you wiring it to? This person, how did you 31:26 meet him? How do you know him? How long have you known him? What's their 31:30 business? And I'm like, holy shit, I just want to wire my own money to this 31:33 person. Like quit. Ask like, yeah, it's your money. You should be able to 31:37 do whatever you want. But I mean, but then, you know, like I said, the 31:40 thing happened with my chief of staff a month ago or whatever. 31:42 And I was like, Oh shit, like it is like this is happening all 31:46 the time. 31:46 Uh, the, the group in this, well, I know I kind of went on a 31:50 tangent, but like this, uh, $65 million scam group, um, it 31:56 originated from like the victim. 31:58 And then, you know, they wanted me to send this money. 32:02 So I'm like, I'm going to see who's on the other side of 32:04 this, like who's collecting the money every day. 32:06 I had no idea. 32:07 So like I had this idea where I was going to send like a camera in a box and like I made this 32:14 contraption that was like a camera connected to a hot spot and that has internet on it and 32:20 then I was going to remote into the camera to see who was like opening the you know the 32:25 package and the one time I got the notification that somebody was opening it like it got 32:32 confiscated. So I didn't get to see who it was. 32:35 It was the police that confiscated it. 32:38 And I guess that address was hot or something. 32:42 But it kind of led me. 32:43 I had this curiosity because I was like, OK, I can still. 32:47 Then I started sending people out that are in the scant. 32:50 We call it scam baiting where you bait in the scammers. 32:53 We started sending people out to these locations and like 32:56 confronting whoever is on the other side. 32:59 And I'm like, this is crazy, dude. 33:01 There's these like random people picking up money and gold bars and all this stuff and it's happening everywhere and they're driving 33:08 Like my next-door neighbor. I had a guy that I work with in the UK 33:12 And he text me he's like is this your address? 33:15 And first of I'm like, what do you mean? You don't even been to my house like what do you mean? 33:19 This is my address. I'm like, that's pretty close 33:21 and I'm like, how do you know that and 33:25 He said well 33:27 There's a guy that's coming to pick up money like really close to that 33:31 So I was, I got in the car and drove and lo and behold, 33:36 there was like a dude with a New York license plate sitting outside of this 33:40 grandpa's house, two houses down, and I'm taking pictures of them and stuff like 33:43 that. And they just have guys driving around the U S every like, 33:47 and we see the screens and it's like all the Chinese symbols and stuff. 33:51 And they're on WhatsApp and they're, they'll drive for hours to pick up 33:55 gold, cash, everything. 33:56 like, um, and it's, I'm telling you, it's happening everywhere, every day. 34:02 This group had 2000 victims, 2000 victims in what timeframe? 34:07 Uh, a few years. 34:09 The whole thing was like, it was like five or six years of investigation. 34:13 So it went from one guy to a second guy to five guys to 12 to 20. 34:18 I think the total that were arrested was like 24 or 25. 34:21 And it was $65 million over a number of years. 34:23 The main guy that got arrested had like a $10 or $15 million house in LA living the, you know, 34:31 living the life off of scam money, because the $65 million is like probably 20% of, 34:39 that's probably what they had, 20% of what the actual crimes were because they get a cut 34:44 of everything. So it was probably way more than that. Probably closer to half a billion. 34:50 Wow. 34:52 That's just one group. 34:53 So who are the majority of these scammers? 34:56 Are they all foreign actors? 34:58 Yes. 35:00 Mostly out of Indian call centers. 35:03 Indian call centers. 35:04 Some Pakistan, some India. 35:07 You have other scammers that do like the romance ones 35:09 on like, you know, everyone used to like make fun 35:11 of like the Nigerian Prince, you know? 35:14 I don't know if you've heard of that one. 35:17 It's like... 35:18 Like you get the random email one day 35:20 and it's like, I'm a prince in Nigeria 35:23 and like I have all this money 35:25 and I need someone to like give it to 35:28 and I'm gonna be giving it to you. 35:30 And that's how the scam starts. 35:32 And it's like, you're gonna be getting all this money 35:35 and you have to like either pay taxes or whatever on it. 35:37 I don't know the whole thing, 35:38 but I never really deal with them. 35:40 But you have scammers out of India 35:41 and Pakistan we deal with. 35:43 You have scammers out of kind of Eastern Europe 35:46 that do more crypto type scams and they have call centers 35:50 in like countries like Georgia and things like that. 35:52 There's been some big takedowns. 35:53 And then you have guys in like Africa that do the romance ones 35:59 and they're pretty good about it. 36:01 And they also run out of the UK. 36:03 So a lot of them will go to UK, they'll go to Turkey 36:08 because it's easier for them to operate, I guess. 36:11 And then you have, I know this sounds crazy as well. 36:14 you have publishers clearinghouse scammers that deal out of Jamaica. 36:19 And they pretend to be the publisher's clearinghouse 36:22 and they target senior citizens and say they've won earnings and they steal money. 36:26 Those people are pretty crazy, too. 36:28 What about China? 36:33 A lot. 36:33 China is pretty gnarly, I would say. 36:37 They're more the money moving apparatus. 36:40 OK. I would say. 36:44 They're more worried about, like, I think stealing, 36:46 at like intellectual property. But the moving of money, they're really good about doing that. 36:57 Setting up LLCs, students coming over here to the US to study and overstaying their visa, 37:07 things like that. So the guys that got arrested, the high majority were not US citizens and 37:13 they're gonna go to jail and then get deported after that. 37:16 How long do they go to jail for? 37:18 Do you have an idea? 37:20 The crimes are supposed to be up to life 37:22 because you're looking at the amount of money 37:25 that was being stolen, 37:26 and then also with it being wire fraud and elder fraud. 37:29 So the DOJ can stack like a bunch of charges. 37:32 That's why it took so long. 37:35 And the hope is that they're in jail for a long time. 37:39 I think it's like 20 to 40 years, 37:40 and then they get deported. 37:42 Wow. 37:43 Yeah. 37:44 And there's plenty more out there. 37:47 There's just an endless, endless funnel, right? 37:49 It's an endless supply. 37:51 And our population's only getting older, 37:54 and technology's only getting better. 37:56 I mean, do you have any statistics on, like, 37:59 how many times a day this happens? 38:01 What's the average age of a victim? 38:02 Yeah. 38:03 I mean, the ones that we see, like, 38:06 we've seen victims be college-aged and fall. 38:10 there's like a social security scam where they used to run one out of India where they would call 38:15 up and pretend to be the SSA, the Social Security Administration. And they would say like, hey, 38:21 there's an abandoned vehicle. And this sounds so stupid. I know I'm going to tell you the story, 38:25 though. There's an abandoned vehicle in Texas. It's a rental car with all of your information 38:33 in there and a bunch of drugs, cocaine, heroin, and a bunch of money laundering has been happening 38:41 under your name. Is that you? And then the person's obviously like, no, that's not me. Like, no. And 38:46 they're like, well, we need to see what's going on with your bank accounts. Do you have all these 38:50 bank accounts? No, we don't have that. Okay. Well, how much money do you have in your 38:55 Bank of America? Well, I have $30,000. Okay. Well, there's been some type of 39:01 identity theft that's happened. 39:03 We work for the Social Security Administration. 39:05 My name is Alex LeBron. 39:08 I'm an agent with the SSA. 39:10 It sounds so absurd, but this happens all the time. 39:14 And they would say, well, the only way to safeguard your 39:16 money from this crazy crime that's been happening, 39:19 if it's not you, is to take your money out 39:21 and you need to send it to like a safety locker 39:23 so that we can investigate. 39:25 If you don't do that, 39:27 we're gonna send a federal agent to your house. 39:31 And there's stories of college students taking out all their money, you know, for college, 39:35 30,000, and there's one in the state of Georgia, college student took out all their money from 39:40 this specific scam. 39:41 So you can, my point is you could be 20 years old or you could be, you know, average we 39:46 see 55, 65 years old that are getting scammed. 39:50 The scammers are going for big bucks now. 39:52 They're not going for a couple hundred dollars. 39:54 They will hang up on someone that doesn't have money. 39:55 They buy data on victims that are in affluent areas. 40:00 They know like net worth and things like that. 40:03 They have insiders at banking companies that will extract data and give it to them. 40:09 No shit. 40:11 I've seen it. 40:14 Checking account, savings account, like dollar amounts, social security numbers, address, phone number, all of it. 40:22 So when you have that data, you could scam anybody. 40:24 I could call you and say, hey, I'm your bank. 40:25 here's all your data and they'd be like oh yeah that is that is true well 40:31 someone's hacked your account so you need to go move it immediately and they'll 40:35 they'll go and do that happens every day we see it we have thousands of scammer 40:41 connections that are it's just rolling because they go online offline they 40:46 destroy their computers they buy new ones it's just this cat mouse game that 40:51 that we have to stay on top of, it's a never-ending cycle. 40:56 Shit. 40:57 So I mean, when we say foreign actors, 41:00 are these mob organizations, terrorist organizations, 41:03 or these actual foreign government organizations 41:07 or all of the above? 41:10 So I think the laundering side could be probably tied 41:14 to some type of crime organization, 41:18 I would assume some pretty gnarly groups that get you know, when you're laundering money, 41:22 you're not just laundering it for scam, you're probably laundering money for other things. 41:29 There's also been probably ties overseas with terrorist groups. I don't have a specific one, 41:35 but we've heard of that happening just with the nature of the areas that some of these 41:40 call centers deal in. And then yeah, it's like, I don't know about necessarily like nation 41:47 states like, you know, trying to influence it from there. 41:51 But if there's money involved, there's like, we, we dealt 41:54 with an Indian call center where they had politicians 41:56 that owned the call centers. 42:00 Um, and, you know, these are, there's big business men 42:03 that own call centers and they run a business during the 42:05 day and then they have a scam business at night 42:07 and it's all hidden and everybody's in on it. 42:11 Wow. 42:11 So let's go back to the $65 million bust. 42:14 I mean, so what was your involvement in that? 42:17 Yeah, so great question. 42:20 So I was trying to kind of like paint the picture 42:22 of like how all the stuff works, 42:26 or at least kind of get to the edge of it here. 42:29 But essentially these guys, 42:31 we started sending people physically 42:35 to see who's on the other end of collecting this money. 42:40 And that kind of got some interest, I guess, 42:42 from the government because they're like, 42:45 oh, wow, there's actual victims 42:47 and they're these people going around stealing money 42:50 from people. 42:52 So, because we collect the information 42:54 of the people when we confront them. 42:56 So we had like their ID card and their rental car. 42:59 You know, they're really good, dude. 43:00 Like they stay at Airbnb's. 43:01 They get rental cars. 43:02 They have burner phones. 43:03 They are really good at what they do. 43:05 This shows a crime organization to me 43:08 when you're taking all these steps. 43:10 This isn't just a random person. 43:12 So we obviously gave over the information 43:14 and one person leads to all these others. 43:17 So it started with a phone call. 43:19 I pretended to be a victim 43:21 and I went through the scam bait 43:23 where I baited the scammers in from India 43:26 and then they reach out to someone here 43:28 luckily in the US and say, 43:29 hey, there's gonna be $50,000 going to this place. 43:33 And then I sent a package. 43:35 I had the best UPS store guy ever 43:38 because he knew what I did 43:40 And he let me use like fake names and stuff and 43:43 We would send packages with like nothing in it 43:46 But you had to have a physical package so that they could track it 43:49 Through UPS and then the scammers in India. They tracked this package. They send it to the 43:55 People here in the US and then that person is waiting for a package to show up and then it was us that was there 44:01 And then one guy leads to a bunch of them 44:04 so 44:04 So after that, though, like these guys dangerous, like, yeah, 44:09 that's why I never really went out there myself. 44:11 Gotcha. 44:11 I sent somebody else. 44:14 Yeah. 44:16 They, they're pretty dangerous. 44:17 Are they armed? 44:18 Yeah. 44:21 How do you know that? 44:22 Any incidents? 44:23 No, the guys that there's like initial runners and then they run the 44:31 cash or the gold to somebody else. 44:32 And one of the guys that we stopped was like, 44:35 hey, like these guys are in a hotel set up with like guns 44:38 and it's crazy. 44:40 Like I have to do this, my life is at stake. 44:42 And they like forced him to do it for a couple hundred bucks 44:46 because they put these like runners out there 44:49 to collect the money. 44:50 And if they get busted, like so be it, you know, 44:53 the real crime like is once you kind of peel back 44:55 the onion and go back a little further, you know? 44:59 So it is very dangerous. 45:01 Like once you get physical, like face-to-face with somebody, that confrontation, I work 45:05 through like the shadows of the computers and the phone and stuff. 45:08 And, but we can set up like, again, if a scammer knows a package is going somewhere, like, 45:17 they're going to go for that money. 45:18 And on the other side now to be law enforcement or somebody, instead of like a civilian, like, 45:25 yeah. 45:26 Who's volunteering? 45:27 I mean, who are you getting to volunteer for this? 45:30 I mean, there's other like YouTubers in the space that like will go out and do it for like videos and stuff and just kind of similar to like the like the pedo hunters that will go and confront someone that's there to see a kid. 45:44 We will confront someone to go steal money from grandma. It's very similar. 45:51 And the thing though with that is like, it's great, but I started to realize like, what's the end goal? 46:00 like the end goal for me is mass numbers of arrests 46:04 and victims saved. 46:06 So I never make videos on that, on the confrontations. 46:12 If I get the information, 46:13 it's going directly to authorities 46:15 so they can arrest somebody. 46:17 Are they, what's your experience working with them? 46:23 They take it seriously? 46:25 I mean, they realize it's a real problem. 46:27 Are they, are they putting actual resources towards it? 46:34 Well, that doesn't sound promising. 46:37 I mean, like, so I'm really proud of the, the indictments that happen. 46:43 I'm extremely proud of it. 46:44 Um, I think that there should be a coalition that happens between banks, technology, 46:51 government, federal and state and local. 46:53 And I would love to head that up. 46:56 I know there's an executive order that came out on scams and nobody called me. 47:00 That would have been cool to give my expertise on what we see, how to stop it. 47:07 So we have to like take things in our own hands sometimes, a lot of times. 47:14 I think that the government cares about protecting people. I don't think they know how. 47:21 And it's such a widespread thing. The hardest part, Sean, is that 47:26 these scammers use so many systems that don't talk to each other. 47:30 So how do you protect something when you get one side of it but then you don't get the other four? 47:34 Like you're just watching it's like in security like in cyber security 47:37 It's like you can't protect the house if you don't know how many doors and locks there are right in windows, right? 47:43 It's like just basic stuff 47:45 So you could throw a billion dollars at it. I'll take a billion dollars from the government 47:49 If they want me to do it, I guess, you know 47:52 But like we're too worried doing the other stuff we're doing I guess 47:55 What what other stuff all the other things we have going on like 48:00 We spend so much money, you know, like, 48:02 oh, yeah, like, okay, that's stuff, yeah. 48:05 Like, we spend trillions of dollars. 48:07 We have these crazy budgets and everything, 48:08 and the wealth of the US is being just siphoned away, 48:13 cut by cut, little cut by little cut, 48:16 elderly person by elderly person. 48:19 It's really sad, man. 48:20 Like, I think the government does care. 48:22 They just don't know how to stop it. 48:24 I don't know if they do care. 48:26 I just don't, I mean, Besson said, 48:29 There's an estimated $600 billion in fraud in the U.S. alone every year. 48:38 That's reported. 48:39 Every year. 48:40 It's even reported. 48:42 That's even reported, man. 48:44 What do they want to do? 48:45 Raise taxes. 48:47 Let's not go after the $600 billion in fraud that's happening every year. 48:54 Let's just raise tax. 48:55 That's just government fraud. 48:56 Yeah. 48:57 Like, you know, like, the Somali, 49:00 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 49:00 And centers and like, the fake day cares and all this shit. 49:05 That's just that kind of stuff. 49:07 Did anything ever come of that, by the way? 49:09 Um, I don't know. 49:11 I don't think anything ever comes of anything 49:14 with the U.S. government. 49:15 Being a YouTuber, I just, 49:18 being a YouTuber, we try to shine as much light on things as we can. 49:22 Light is the best disinfectant, I guess. 49:24 and we've tried to put as much pressure on India 49:28 to do something and sometimes- 49:30 If you had any, if you had any success with that? 49:34 Yeah, we did something with Mark Rober. 49:37 A couple other YouTubers in my space, 49:39 we did stuff with Mark Rober. 49:40 I love that guy, you're working with him? 49:42 Yeah, we did like, we actually did glitter bombs. 49:49 So, you know, like the guys that pick up the packages? 49:51 Yeah. 49:52 One of the ladies was in Texas and we sent a package, 49:56 but instead of the package arriving, 49:59 he pretended to be FedEx, 50:01 and they dropped off a package to this person, 50:03 and she goes to open it up, and it's a freaking glitter bomb, 50:06 and like, explodes all over her and stuff like that, 50:09 and then the police were there to arrest her. 50:12 That's us. 50:13 Yeah. 50:15 But they did some stuff in a call center. 50:17 They did another video marked it with some other guys 50:19 in Myspace where they went into a call center 50:22 and like, put rats out and all the stuff in the call center. 50:25 But the thing is, is like, we expose these huge, like thousand employee call centers in India 50:33 that are like regular businesses, but then at nighttime, they're stealing whatever, 50:38 hundreds of millions from people. 50:40 And these bosses make all this crazy amount of money and have, you know, resorts in Goa, India, 50:46 which is like on the west side of India, they take their money and move it into, you know, dark money 50:53 into, you know, I guess good money or whatever, real businesses. 50:58 So they're good about moving the money around. 51:00 So we just try to like, what my point is with that is 51:05 when we put the pressure on India, they had to do something like those videos 51:09 like on some of the call centers we exposed, it was like hundreds of millions of 51:13 views. So at some point, someone has to do something like in these cities, 51:17 like they have to do something to save face. 51:20 So that's really what we've known as the best way of doing it is like exposing, 51:25 exposing, exposing. Here's the location. Here's the exact geolocation of this call center or 51:30 the scammer. Here's their IP address. Here's the evidence of their scams. They need like three 51:34 victims and they need victim statements and all this stuff. It's like, it's worse than like 51:40 getting like a buying a house. Like you have to go through all these things to get someone 51:45 when arrested, socks. 51:48 Well, I want to get more into that one a little bit later, 51:51 but I mean, just the US government. 51:53 Like, have they done anything to protect citizens 51:58 from this kind of shit? 52:00 Yes, they have. 52:01 I'll give you a couple of examples. 52:02 Like, we've exposed a lot of shit on this show. 52:04 You know, just not just the stuff 52:06 with Brian and Shlepa, like this flag, for example. 52:10 Like, we exposed that we, the US government, 52:13 is sending the Taliban $80 million a week in cash. 52:18 Well, $80 million a week in cash. 52:21 Well, we suppose that like two years ago, 52:25 maybe a little longer now. 52:29 And so it was exposed by a 52:31 Afghan-American army intelligence guy, 52:34 goes by the name Legend, 52:37 and he goes over there and kind of fights 52:40 with the resistance or helps the resistance 52:42 or whatever, and he brought that flag back 52:45 when he exposed that on the show. 52:47 That was from the Taliban burning it. 52:49 We got this thing blown up. 52:52 All these congressmen were talking about it. 52:54 Senators were talking about it. 52:56 Promises were made. 52:57 Nothing's happened, of course, nothing's happened. 53:00 That's just, you know, that's billions of dollars now 53:03 that we're sending to an organization 53:06 that we fought for 20 plus years, 53:10 still fighting them in different parts of the world. 53:13 I don't know. 53:14 And it's like, nothing happens. 53:17 Governments very aware of all the, you know, 53:19 the pedo shit and sex exploitation 53:21 that's going on with kids. 53:23 Yeah. 53:23 I don't see anything happening. 53:25 You know, they're aware of the scammer stuff. 53:28 I'm hoping you're gonna say they're doing something. 53:31 I mean. 53:32 Probably not anything significant. 53:34 You know, and so what I've found just personally 53:36 and bringing things to the light is 53:41 the government will do nothing. 53:42 You know, there's a saying, you know, 53:45 nobody's going to come save you. 53:46 And so I think that, you know, 53:48 whether it's, whether we're talking about parents 53:51 that want to protect their kids from pedophiles 53:53 and sexual exploitation or, you know, 53:57 the stuff that's going on our roadblocks, 53:59 which is the exact same thing 54:00 or the stuff that you're talking about. 54:02 I think the only real impact that we can have, 54:05 Like yeah, you can put pressure on the government 54:09 and you might get a win here and there 54:11 but and you might get some people unseated. 54:14 You know what I mean? 54:15 We've done that. 54:15 We've got some people unseated from the government 54:18 that were turds that don't need to be in there. 54:20 But did it really solve anything? 54:22 Cause it's just another turd 54:23 that's going to take their spot. 54:25 And so I think the biggest thing you can do 54:28 what you're doing is you educate 54:31 as many people as you possibly can. 54:34 And this is what's happening. 54:36 This is how it's happening. 54:37 This is how easy it is to fall for. 54:41 And you educate the population on those things. 54:47 This is what you can do to stop it. 54:51 And that word spreads fast. 54:54 I mean, as you've seen, you have an enormous audience. 54:59 Yeah, we've reached like a billion and a half people 55:03 on YouTube and I don't know how many hundreds of millions 55:06 or whatever, everywhere else, 55:07 but billion and a half views on our videos 55:10 and it's pointing at how these scams work. 55:12 And that's one of the most fulfilling things 55:14 is when a banker comes up to me and says, 55:18 hey, like we recognize this thing that was happening 55:20 and we shut it down because we watch your videos 55:22 or someone in the comments, 55:25 there's like a kid that had heard a grandpa on the phone 55:29 getting gift cards at a Publix of all places, he was 12 years old, and he told everyone that it 55:34 was a scam and saved a grandpa, and this kid's 12 years old. And I think that's what we're trying to 55:40 do the best so we can is inspire people. It's one thing to have the knowledge, but then when you're 55:45 hearing something, like going and doing something, like to see something, say something kind of an 55:50 idea. Because I do think that the government kind of wants to do something. They are doing 55:56 things to help us. But it's like, not as agile and as fast as I don't understand why they can't 56:05 move faster. That's the stuff that kind of bothers me. Like a startup company, like my guys in our 56:12 office, like the team we work with, we get information so fast. And then it's like, you 56:18 give it to them. And it's like, goes to the abyss sometimes. And you're like, where's the 56:22 follow-up like not so I can make a video necessarily but it's like I want to know 56:28 that that person's safe or whatever or did we catch the guy like and I feel I 56:36 don't know I just would love to see there be more attention paid to this 56:41 because it's not like it's not it's not as like well known I guess like 56:49 everyone knows about scams but they think like well I haven't been 56:52 impacted by it, so it's not that big of a deal. 56:55 What have they done? 56:57 Um, I mean, that was, that was nice. 56:59 The indictment that was a start, I think I would like to see India 57:04 extraditing these bosses to the U S. 57:08 I would love to see that. 57:09 Are we talking about the Indian government? 57:11 Are we talking about the U S? 57:12 Well, U S and India working together. 57:15 But obviously I don't know what the relationships are like there. 57:18 Like, Hey, can you guys extradite this call center boss that has 57:21 stolen, whatever, $10 million this year 57:25 from 1,000 US citizens telling them 57:28 that they have child pornography on their computers. 57:31 So what is happening? 57:33 They're relying on you and your team to do all the work 57:36 and then maybe they'll go make an arrest 57:38 after you've laid all of the groundwork. 57:40 Yeah. 57:41 That's what's happening? 57:42 Yeah. 57:43 What a joke. 57:44 I'm sorry. 57:45 I mean, like, and so we try to set up 57:52 as much as possible to catch these guys on the other side. 57:55 The hard part is that the scammer is overseas. 57:58 So they're doing the best that they can to get somebody here. 58:02 And a lot of times these call centers that are in India, 58:05 they don't personally know the person here 58:07 in the US that's getting the money. 58:09 It's a whole different crime group. 58:11 So there's no like connection outside. 58:13 Like they find people on Telegram, 58:16 they find people on these crypto exchanges. 58:19 Like you could, there's exchanges 58:20 where you can you can trade gift cards for crypto. So you could literally take $5,000 of 58:27 target gift cards and send a code to somebody on the internet, and then they'll send you crypto. 58:32 And that's what a lot of these guys that how they find them. So there's no like direct ties 58:37 like if you catch the person here in the US, you're not going to find the guy in India. 58:40 And that's how good of a system they have, man. It's like, so it's like they're chasing 58:44 this side and they go after these big ones like the 65 million and then but 58:51 the other side I'm really worried about like the guys in India like how come 58:55 they can't get in trouble and they know they're like invincible that sucks man 59:00 that's why we destroy their computers shit because like at least at least we're 59:08 doing something to like or exposing them their faces stuff like that I mean 59:13 How did you, how did you even get into this? 59:15 I mean, we talked about the, I think 65 year old grandma, but even before that, 59:19 like how did this stuff pop on your radar? 59:21 Yeah. 59:22 Um, like my brother-in-law actually showed me these videos and it was 2019. 59:31 And like, he was like, Hey, like, I thought he was going to show me 59:34 like a car video because he's a big car guy. 59:37 And like, I was like, I don't want to watch a car video. 59:40 Like, I don't know. 59:41 You know, like, anything about cars, dude? 59:44 Like, you know, he's a great guy, 59:45 but I just don't know anything about cars. 59:47 Like, I'm not the guy to talk about cars with, 59:49 and I won't pretend. 59:50 Like, I'm not gonna, like, try to make you happy. 59:53 But I was trying to make him happy, 59:55 and I realized I'm like, 59:56 oh, this is a computer video. 59:57 I'm like, what is this? 59:58 And he's like, oh, it's these guys, 60:00 and these call centers, 60:01 and this guy calls them up, 60:02 and they're yelling back and forth, 60:04 and I'm like, this is amazing. 60:06 Like, this is action. 60:07 Like, this is fun for me. 60:09 Like, this guy's calling up scammers, 60:10 getting on their computers and destroying them and they're like cussing each other out. And I'm like, 60:15 this is amazing entertainment. Like I stayed up to like four in the morning watching it. 60:19 And you don't see anything. All you do is you see the screens of the computer 60:23 and then you have two people yelling at each other. You don't see the faces or anything, 60:26 but I was so intrigued by it. And then I remember watching like a video from, 60:32 it was like this mashup on YouTube of Joe Rogan and Gary Vee. And it was like, 60:37 should I quit my job? It was so, it was really weird. It was like about, you know, 60:41 like I had a career in cybersecurity and it was like fulfillment in life. 60:46 Like I had a family and a house and a car and a career, 60:49 but like something was like kind of missing. 60:52 And I thought it was like career wise, but, um, 60:55 come to find past few years it's been faith is what's really missing. 61:00 That's really the only thing that can fulfill. That's a whole nother story. 61:03 But, um, once I found this genre on YouTube, I was like, 61:06 like, this is freaking amazing. 61:08 So I told my wife and I was like, 61:10 hey, I wanna start calling these guys up. 61:12 I'm like, I feel like I could do this. 61:14 And she's like, go ahead and do it. 61:15 So I'd wake up at four in the morning 61:16 and like call these guys up 61:18 and I would pretend to be grandma 61:19 and just kind of prank call them. 61:22 And then I started doing the thing 61:24 where you would like reverse the access 61:26 where they give you access to their computer. 61:29 And that was like really fun. 61:31 It's very like nerve-racking. 61:33 But it's like such an adrenaline rush 61:34 when the scammer lets you on their computer, 61:37 which is crazy to think about. 61:39 They allow you on their computer 61:40 and then you get to cause havoc. 61:43 And then I started doing live streams and making videos. 61:46 And in 2019, I went from 35 subscribers. 61:49 I remember I was on a vacation with my wife, 61:51 telling everyone I was a YouTuber at 35 subs. 61:55 And I was just proud of doing it. 61:57 I don't know. 61:57 I was like doing something different, like creating. 61:59 Like I feel like God is the ultimate creator 62:03 and he created us to go out and be and do and live life. 62:07 And there was just like this fulfillment 62:09 of making something, like whether it's a business 62:12 or a YouTube channel. 62:13 And it was just something that was so different 62:16 on the inside whenever I'd make a video, 62:18 just you're like an artist, you're making something. 62:23 And then went from 35 subs where I was really happy 62:27 telling everyone I do YouTube, 62:28 which was really silly to think, looking back. 62:31 But I was just so proud of it. 62:32 And then into 17,000 subscribers for some reason that stands out to me in August of 2019 to 100,000 62:40 to half a million to, you know, the numbers it's at now, where you don't really look at the numbers 62:45 anymore. And it's shifted from prank calling into this like vigilanteism type thing where now 62:56 you have like the weight of the world on your shoulders because one, you've got employees, 63:00 You're trying to make the audience happy with the videos. 63:05 You're trying to save people every day. 63:07 You're trying to give information to law enforcement 63:10 so they can go after bad guys, all of these things. 63:13 And it's not just making YouTube videos anymore. 63:16 I did not know what I was signing up for. 63:18 Yeah, but I can relate a little bit. 63:24 Do you have any idea how many scammers you've caught? 63:32 I mean, I think in the last year and a half, 63:34 it's like five to 8,000 scammers. 63:36 Shit. 63:37 Did you say that in the past year and a half? 63:39 Yeah. 63:39 Five to 8,000 scammers? 63:41 Mm-hmm. 63:42 Wow. 63:43 That's a lot of... 63:47 So how many is that a day? 63:50 At our peak, we were, when I say catching... 63:54 Year and a half, five to 8,000 scammers. 63:56 I mean, shit, man. 63:58 Yeah, I think that... 63:59 1,000 a year is like three a day. 64:01 Yeah, one of my guys is he'll... 64:03 his name is Knight. He'll probably make me backtrack that number, but I'm pretty sure that was the 64:08 number that we had over the past like year and a half was around five to eight thousand. And it's 64:12 a rolling number of scammers that are online that we have access to. So when I mean access, 64:17 it means we can see their screen. We could type on their keyboard from overseas. We could use 64:22 their mouse. We can listen to their scams. We can collect information on them. We can 64:26 geolocate them within 10 meters, we can find anywhere, 64:31 any, whatever they're doing, 64:33 as long as they're connected to the internet. 64:35 So basically you're infiltrated inside networks right now 64:38 and they don't even realize it. 64:41 We're listening to them, we're recording them, 64:43 we're watching them, we're saving their victims 64:44 under their nose, they have no idea. 64:47 And they get mad actually when they have the victims 64:50 in the package, they get mad at the guy 64:53 that's collecting, they think it's his fault 64:54 or they think it's FedEx's problem, 64:56 but it's us because we're stopping it. 64:59 We stopped wire transfers. 65:01 We actually, a couple of days ago, 65:05 we stopped a scam where the guy had stolen crypto. 65:09 Like the crypto went into his wallet. 65:11 I watched it happen, like the number's changing. 65:14 And we have a law enforcement friend, 65:17 actually out of Canada, 65:18 and he deals with U.S. law enforcement. 65:20 And he was able to get it stopped 65:23 and like the funds frozen and reversed and everything. 65:26 The guy was scamming someone out of Australia. 65:28 And it's just crazy. 65:30 It's like every day you walk in the office 65:31 and depending upon who's online, 65:33 you have just a whole different slew of problems. 65:35 How many people do you have working for you? 65:39 We have one guy on the tech side 65:41 that does a lot of the hacking, 65:42 so we would bring in like 100 to 150 scammers a day. 65:47 And he builds certain infrastructure 65:52 and there's certain things I can't say about our operation 65:56 because the scammers like study us now and what we do 66:00 and they're very paranoid about us, 66:01 but we have like 10 different ways to get ahead of them 66:05 and we use what they do against them 66:07 just like they've used stuff against us, 66:09 we use stuff against them. 66:10 So we socially engineer them. 66:13 We have three or four different mechanisms 66:15 of staying on their systems and watching them 66:18 and stopping their scams all while being very silent. 66:22 The only time they know it's us 66:24 is when we destroy their computer at the end. 66:26 And we're very loud. 66:27 We'll deep fry their microphones. 66:30 We'll do piercing noises in their ears 66:33 and they have headsets on. 66:34 We will do little cricket chirps. 66:37 Like they'll be sitting there 66:38 and you'll hear a cricket chirping. 66:41 And they're like, where's that sound coming from? 66:43 And then all of a sudden their computer goes kaput 66:46 with all these things that happen on their screen. 66:47 And so it's a numbers game for us. 66:50 They're constantly changing their computers out 66:52 and we're constantly re-adding them every day. 66:57 What do you think happens to these, 66:58 you know, what do you think happens to these guys 67:00 within the organization when they, 67:02 when they botch one because you guys have infiltrated? 67:05 Do you think they get killed or? 67:08 There's gotta be held up there. 67:09 I imagine it's very similar to a cartel, 67:11 a cartel mulling money. 67:14 Yeah, it's pretty gnarly out there in India. 67:19 Um, the tech support scams originated in Delhi. 67:23 There's a lot of support tech support out there and they thought like, 67:29 well, we're doing legitimate tech support for actual companies, Microsoft, et cetera. 67:34 And then some of these guys spun off and were like, well, what if we like, 67:37 kind of made our own thing where we could be a cheaper version of tech 67:40 support? So we'll still do tech support and we'll fix people's computers 67:43 just remotely, fix their printers, all that stuff. 67:46 Well, how do we get more leads? 67:48 What do we do? 67:50 We'll actually force people to us. 67:53 We will pay for ads and pretend to be support 67:57 or we'll force pop-ups. 67:59 People are surfing the web and we'll force, 68:02 what they do is they pay for pop-ups 68:04 to happen on people's computers 68:06 that says there's a virus on their computer 68:08 and to call this number immediately. 68:10 So instead of they went from like real tech support 68:14 we're forcing people to call us so that we can scam them. 68:18 And that's like the spectrum of where it's gone to. 68:20 So you have these crime organizations in India 68:24 that have set up these frameworks of how to scam US citizens 68:28 in Canada and Australia and Europe. 68:30 And the bosses at the top, they run it like a mafia infrastructure. 68:35 And they take their phones when they come in. 68:38 They hire young kids from different areas that are on, you know, 68:43 They have no means of income and they forced them to do this. 68:46 They say it's a tech support job or a sales job. 68:50 And it's like trafficking. 68:51 Yeah. 68:51 It's very similar to that. 68:53 There was a call center in Northern India that they would fly the 68:56 scammers into, um, and they kind of had like, I call it like seasons almost 69:01 like they would bring them in for like three, four months and then send 69:04 them home to go see their families, bring them back. 69:06 And they lived in the call centers. 69:08 We had access to the CCTV cameras so we could see them at all hours. 69:14 and they would sleep on cots, it was terrible conditions. 69:18 They had rats crawling on them. 69:20 There was one kid that had an insider 69:23 that we paid to be an insider at the call center. 69:28 And he said that one of the guys that he worked next to, 69:31 literally I could see him on the cameras. 69:32 He would like wave at me sometimes. 69:35 And he would text me and he's like, 69:37 yeah, one of the guys overdosed on drugs 69:38 and the call center bosses, and it was Krishna Yadav, 69:44 they owed money to that guy's family, 69:46 and they would not, they like spit on his grave 69:48 pretty much, he said, like, 69:50 did not give the family the money that he was owed, 69:53 even though he died in their call center, 69:56 died in the call center. 69:58 Wow. 70:00 It's crazy, they will beat, they will threaten, 70:03 they'll beat their people, threaten them. 70:05 So it's slavery. 70:07 Yeah. 70:08 The ones that get stuck in there and they can't get out in the call centers, it's really, 70:11 it's very sad. 70:12 How big are these call centers? 70:15 In their high time, it was a thousand people. 70:18 A thousand people? 70:19 Mm-hmm. 70:20 Were they having forces running around? 70:23 Yeah. 70:23 If you think about it, it's at night time. 70:25 So India is 10 and a half hours ahead of us. 70:28 So what is like 12 o'clock here, business hours here is like super late for them. 70:32 So, can you imagine, like, walking around India 70:35 and then going into this huge building 70:37 where during the day, there's, like, actual companies working 70:40 and then at nighttime, you have 1,000 people. 70:42 So, they have security guards, they have gates. 70:45 Um, we had one of my guys was in India 70:47 literally last month, and he uses the bathroom trick 70:50 to get in, he says, like, he has to use the bathroom. 70:53 And there's people inside of these call centers, 70:55 inside of these buildings at 3 in the morning. 70:57 What are you doing at 3 in the morning? 70:59 Nothing good. 71:01 So, it's not to say every building, every call center is a scam one, but like the ones 71:06 that we know of, like they even ran out of government buildings sometimes. 71:11 And they're paying rent to be in a government building to scam people. 71:16 Like it's, there's another guy, Carl Rock that is a YouTuber and he actually lives 71:21 in India. 71:22 And he would go around and he's like a vlogger. 71:26 And he would go around and he would, you know, he loves India and the culture and all that kind of stuff. 71:34 And he showed like he ate outside of a call center. 71:37 It was the Weeble IT Park in Siliguri, India. 71:41 And the Weeble IT Park is a government building. 71:43 Now there's other valid businesses and things happening there, but then scam call centers are like hidden away. 71:49 We had another call center raid in Hyderabad, India, and they were on the fifth floor and we found their location. 71:55 and Hyderabad police went in and raided them 71:59 and things like that. 72:00 And now where they're going with like since COVID's happened, 72:04 they're doing the work from home bit like the U.S. has done 72:09 where they have these like from a tech standpoint, 72:12 they're using, the scammers are using like phone systems, 72:15 like cloud phone systems. 72:17 So they dial in, they log into a phone system 72:20 and then they run software on their computer. 72:22 So whenever a victim calls in, 72:24 and it just gets routed to them. 72:26 So they're working from home 72:27 and it allows them to not be in a big call center anymore. 72:31 Instead of like a big raid that happens, 72:33 we're like hitting them one by one now, 72:36 which sucks for us, 72:37 but it's because we're putting so much pressure on them. 72:43 Let's take a quick break. 72:45 Sure. 72:48 If you're like me, health and wellness 72:51 is extremely important to you. 72:53 But how do you know who to trust 72:55 when it comes to the supplement industry. 72:58 We have all these companies. 73:00 They pop up every other day. 73:01 They're all selling snake oil. 73:03 How do you know who to trust? 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I'm not reading somebody else's ad. I'm a co-founder of this company. I 76:56 put my name, my money, into year of my life into building this. Alongside the 77:02 people who did the work for real. 77:04 I use it every single day. 77:07 Install the app, hit connect, and you're protected. 77:11 That's it. 77:12 It's that simple. 77:13 Theglacierapp.com or find Glacier in the App Store. 77:18 Remember, privacy is in paranoia. 77:21 It's protection. 77:29 All right, Parogi, we're back from the break. 77:30 We're getting ready to get into 77:32 kind of talking about inside the machine, 77:34 like exactly how it works, 77:37 What every step is the players the room the tools the take we talked a little bit about that 77:42 So let's just start there 77:44 We know that we talked about the room and what's in there and that they're sleeping in there and some of these people may or may 77:50 Have not been trafficked. Yeah thousand plus people in one call center. Yeah 77:55 What else do we need to know about this whole apparatus? 78:00 They have any of these call centers are they are any of them in the US 78:04 Yes. 78:05 They wouldn't dare do that here. 78:08 Then the feds would be all up in their stuff, man, 78:11 if it was in the US. 78:12 Okay. 78:13 Again, the money laundering side is here. 78:16 And then there have been cases of the grandma scam, 78:21 which I was telling you earlier where it's like, 78:23 you get the grandma gets a phone call saying, 78:26 I'm your grandson, I'm in trouble, I'm in jail, 78:29 I need money to get out. 78:30 And they will, those people call 78:32 And then they drive up to the grandma's house and collect money and stuff that there are there have been cases where people have been arrested for doing that in the US and their US citizens 78:41 Let's talk about so we got the players the room. Let's talk about the tools. Yeah, I know that you know going through the outline 78:48 There was voice recognition stuff. You had talked about them accessing cameras. They got access to your computers 78:54 What social media platforms are they using like what what is what what are the tools that they're using to do this from their side 79:01 us or our side to them. 79:02 Their side to us. 79:03 Their side to us. 79:04 So it all starts with how they find their victims, so that's the first thing. 79:14 Data breaches, that's like the source of a lot of pain nowadays. 79:21 So there's data brokers that are out there that buy and sell our information. 79:27 This is marketing. 79:28 This is marketing companies. 79:30 Yeah, it's very nice of you to call it marketing. 79:32 What else do you call it? 79:34 We just had it. 79:34 Data brokers. 79:35 Are you familiar with Byron Tau? 79:37 I just had him on earlier this week. 79:40 And he wrote, he wrote a book on all this stuff. 79:42 And so we were talking about the sale of data. 79:46 Yeah. 79:46 And how you can get a whole block for like 2,500 bucks. 79:49 Yes. 79:50 That's how this shit's happening. 79:52 That's one of the ways, yes. 79:54 And I don't think it's very fair that someone can buy and sell my data 79:58 without my hey, you can do that. I will I allow you to buy and sell my data. 80:05 So the scammers, they obviously they're like a good old boy group kind of where they pass 80:11 along data themselves. And there'll be these huge spreadsheets that have 100,000 people in them. 80:17 And then what they'll do is they have they use I told you earlier, they use our tools 80:21 against us. So they create Amazon web instances like cloud instances, virtual machines, they log 80:29 into them, and they have programmed some type of a tool that will mass email. They send out these 80:38 mass emails to this list of 100,000 people. I mean, it could be millions of people. It doesn't 80:42 matter. But they send this email out and the email is like, Hey, we're Amazon, you've been charged 80:49 for an iPhone for $1,500 you need to call this number 80:52 if it wasn't you. 80:53 So that's the beginning of it. 80:55 And the other thing that they're really good about doing 80:57 is sending these mass emails out. 80:59 You would think, well, wouldn't Google stop this? 81:02 Wouldn't Gmail stop this? 81:04 And the fact of the matter is like, 81:06 their spam protection's always been really bad. 81:09 It just has for years, like years and years, 81:12 really, really bad. 81:13 So the scammers know how to get around 81:15 all the spam protection. 81:17 and they're literally sending PDF files, 81:20 which is crazy to me, because they're not malicious anyway, 81:22 but on the inside, it's malicious, if that makes sense. 81:25 And that just goes to show that 81:27 because Google's scanning files that are being sent, 81:30 so if you send a virus to someone in email, 81:32 it's gonna get scanned and say, 81:33 hey, this is a malicious file. 81:35 But if you send a PDF that's a phishing PDF, 81:38 they will never know the difference. 81:41 So you have to click on a link inside the PDF? 81:44 No, you just open the PDF. 81:45 Yeah, you open the PDF on your computer or your phone and it says it looks like whatever 81:50 Norton or it looks like Amazon or PayPal. 81:55 A lot of the big ones PayPal, they pretend to be. 81:58 They try to hit ones that everybody has, right? 82:01 And then this is just one of the ways they hit people. 82:04 And then the grandma sees that they're like, I didn't buy, a lot of times they'll say 82:08 that you bought a gun and that gives people this like negative reaction, I didn't buy 82:14 a gun. 82:14 What are you talking about? And then you call them up and that's where the scam starts. It's not them calling you anymore 82:19 It's you calling them. So the opening the PDF file doesn't give them access. All right. I'm about to shit my pants 82:25 Yeah, I just did this that can happen. Oh, great 82:29 Yeah, there there is 82:30 Yeah, there's it it does and then and then the follow-up all my email got hacked 82:34 I hope anybody, you know, and I'm like shit. I just changed the password. I don't know what else to do two factor 82:39 helps as well. 82:41 Like I would use an authenticator application to run two-factor. 82:46 That's really helpful. 82:47 Well, I'd do that. 82:48 Instead of using like a cell phone, you know, like when you get the code texted to you, 82:53 use the app instead. 82:55 Because those numbers, those tokens, they're called tokens, they're constantly rolling 82:57 and changing. 82:59 People can do like SIM swapping. 83:02 If they really want to get someone, they could get access to an email, do SIM swapping 83:07 and be able to intercept essentially your two-factor, like if Gmail sent you a two-factor 83:12 code, they could intercept it. 83:14 Okay. 83:15 They pay people at the cell companies to give access to the account. 83:18 Holy shit, dude. 83:20 It's so ridiculous. 83:21 These are the things that like, what do you do to stop all this, honestly? 83:25 Where does it go? 83:27 Because these guys are buying your data. 83:29 They're sending these mass emails out. 83:32 Everyone uses Gmail, so like, and Gmail's not stopped. 83:36 I see the emails happen all the time. 83:38 So Gmail's not stopping it. 83:40 And then Grandma calls up. 83:42 And what happens is then the scammers use free software 83:45 to access the victim's computer. 83:48 Or they'll use, there's a thing called Quick Assist 83:50 that's within Microsoft's operating system. 83:54 It's literally installed on everyone's computer. 83:56 So you already have a back door in. 83:59 And they say, go to Quick Assist and tell us the code. 84:03 And then within 30 seconds, 84:04 they're on the victim's computer. 84:05 And then they're starting to load all their other software 84:08 on the victim's computer that they'll be able to see them 84:10 without ever knowing ever again. 84:13 And that's outside of even running the scam. 84:15 They just have access forever. 84:16 I watch them all the time going into people's computers 84:19 to steal money. 84:21 We do everything we can to stop it. 84:23 I want your audience to know like whenever we see something, 84:25 we don't just like let it go. 84:27 But the sheer number of like it's like worse than whack-a-mole. 84:31 There's lots of moles popping up out of the ground. 84:34 and you're constantly trying to stop this. 84:36 It's so exhausting. 84:39 So they connect in, they use a tool to remotely access. 84:44 A lot of times it's within. 84:46 And the reason why I'm saying within Microsoft, right? 84:49 If they have a Windows computer, 84:50 the reason why I'm saying that 84:51 is because that's not malicious. 84:54 Like they're using tactics that in cybersecurity, 84:57 a hacker would use something non-malicious 85:00 on a computer so it doesn't get, you know, 85:03 it doesn't hit antivirus, for instance. 85:06 So if you load a piece of malware, 85:07 antivirus, hey, this is malware, 85:09 if you load a remote tool 85:12 that is not malicious inherently, 85:14 it's not used to do malicious things, 85:16 then Microsoft's like, oh yeah, go ahead and use that, 85:19 even though it's being used right now 85:20 for something malicious. 85:22 That's why it's very difficult to stop these scams, 85:24 because none of this stuff looks at behavior. 85:27 This all looks like security is like, 85:30 is this good or bad? 85:32 If it's good, let it happen. 85:33 If it's bad, stop it. 85:35 So they're getting people to download an actual tool. 85:39 Yep. 85:39 And then they're in. 85:41 And then they're in and forever. 85:43 Forever. 85:44 Well, we cannot install it, 85:46 but the regular person cannot uninstall it. 85:49 And it's, I don't want to say remote tools or malware. 85:53 I'm not saying that. 85:54 But when it's, they're using it in the sense of malware 85:57 in the way of like always having access. 86:00 So they do that and then they're literally sitting at the victims computer screen watching listening 86:06 they open up the victims webcams constantly to watch them and see who they're dealing with they 86:12 take screenshots of the victims bank accounts they steal their passwords they steal they will 86:18 even go as far as adding their email to the person's Gmail so anytime they got an email 86:23 how it gets forwarded to them. 86:25 They will create crypto accounts. 86:28 They'll create LLCs, create bank accounts. 86:30 And this is all in addition to the actual scam 86:33 they're trying to do where they 86:36 try to steal everything out of their account. 86:38 Not only do they want to steal their account, 86:40 they want to steal their identity too. 86:41 That's where I'm seeing, 86:42 and that's really where it's getting bad now, 86:46 to steal someone's identity. 86:48 Shit. 86:51 We've been watching. 86:51 How long do these people stalk their victims 86:53 before they pull the trigger, before they make a move? 86:59 They hit the same day, 87:02 but what they will do is they'll have a list 87:05 of 1500 victims on their software. 87:09 And it'll be three in the morning. 87:11 And if they see, they can see anyone who's online. 87:13 If they see someone online, 87:14 they'll right-click and hit join 87:16 and they'll join into that computer 87:17 and that person's asleep or something or whatever. 87:20 and then they'll just start roaming through the computer. 87:23 They'll look at their photos. 87:25 They'll open up personal tax documents. 87:28 They'll download them. 87:29 They'll screenshot them. 87:30 They'll go through email accounts. 87:31 They know everything about the person if they want to. 87:34 They'll go to Amazon. 87:35 That's one of the first things. 87:36 They'll go to Amazon and start buying gift cards. 87:38 And they're all electronic gift cards. 87:40 So you can steal it really easily. 87:41 I was telling you earlier they can turn gift cards 87:45 into crypto in seconds and it's gone. 87:49 And I didn't even tell you about the scam. 87:51 This is just the access that they have it's so ridiculous to me 87:56 The damage they can do to people we have there's a homeless guy that one of these scammers are dealing with right now 88:03 he doesn't have a job and 88:06 They're going they've started an LLC and they've created made him create multiple bank accounts 88:10 And they're gonna start laundering money through his name and 88:14 Paying him a cut 88:19 Nobody knows what's going on except for us I guess 88:28 Can you go through some, let's just stop, 88:33 start with some of the most common scams. 88:36 So I want to go into detail though, 88:39 how they're doing it. 88:40 We've talked about, you know, the bank account one where, 88:44 but I mean, we're talking about people that are, you know, 88:47 the, you know, pretending to be their son, 88:50 how they rip their voice off, all that kind of stuff. 88:52 Can you go in to some of those? 88:55 Yeah, I know that one's like a really interesting one 88:57 to people because one of the things they do 89:00 is they'll spoof the phone numbers, 89:02 and then they'll also, 89:03 the biggest problem is we put everything online. 89:07 Everyone wants some hit of, 89:09 some dopamine hit of people liking their stuff, 89:12 or, oh, I'm so jealous you went on this great vacation. 89:16 But little do you know that there's, 89:18 out of your 20,000 followers, 89:21 10,000 of them are probably scammers. 89:23 And they're looking at your stories 89:25 and the pictures you're posting, 89:27 and if you post a video, they're ripping your audio. 89:30 And you could take a sample of your audio 89:33 and create, you could go to 11 labs and I could be you. 89:38 There's scammers that pretend to be me constantly. 89:41 They take a video of me and it looks like I'm in my office 89:43 and I'm talking to someone 89:45 and it looks and sounds like me, but it's not. 89:48 So they're doing this and these are really targeted attacks. 89:52 Just like there's so many parallels 89:53 between like cybersecurity and like the enterprise world that I lived in and scamming because like 89:59 for instance I want to give you an example um you have someone on LinkedIn for instance that is a 90:05 cybersecurity I'm a I'm a sock which is security operations center I'm a sock engineer for a big 90:12 company and they will put in all the stuff they use at this huge company I use this tool I use 90:18 I use this tool, I use this tool and I went to Florida State and I love their football 90:22 team and I love shooting guns and all these things, all this information because everybody 90:28 wants their information out there for whatever reason. 90:31 They want the likes and you know, all that stuff. 90:34 And then a hacker in the enterprise space says, I want to go after that company because 90:38 I want their data. 90:40 So I'm going to attack this sock engineer that has told me all the software that 90:45 that they use and all of his specific likes 90:48 of what he does and stuff. 90:50 So I'm gonna craft something to target 90:52 and attack this person to be able to gain access 90:55 to his system, to their network, whatever. 90:57 And it works a lot of times. 90:58 Hackers will create, they call them sandboxes 91:01 and they will try to create malware in zero days 91:03 that will bypass a network firewall 91:05 or an endpoint security tool. 91:08 Not gonna name any names of any security companies 91:11 or anything like that. 91:13 But just because you have XYZ company doesn't mean you're safe 91:16 because you have the human element 91:17 and that's what hackers do and that's what scammers do. 91:20 So now we talk about that where they target attacks 91:23 on people, same goes for scammers. 91:26 They see all your stuff on social media, 91:28 all your videos and all these things, 91:30 grandma with her grandchildren. 91:32 So now grandma knows that she's got 12 grandchildren 91:35 and all the names of them and what they look like 91:38 and where they live and all the audio of them. 91:41 And, yeah, it's sick and disgusting. 91:43 They could take audio of anyone and say, 91:45 oh, my gosh, I'm in trouble. 91:47 They're about to do something to me, 91:49 and the panicked voice, and all this stuff. 91:50 And it's AI. 91:52 And it's a guy on the other side 91:54 pretending to be a grandma's daughter. 91:56 And she's in trouble. 91:58 And someone's holding her captive or something. 92:00 And she has to give money to save her daughter. 92:02 And it's all technology, scammers in another country, 92:08 trying to get you to send them money, 92:09 and a lot of money, too. 92:11 shit. What else? So that's like the great that's that like deep faking AI. I think there's 92:21 going to be a lot of like sex distortion that's going to be happening in the future. Like teens 92:26 are not like, you know, like kids that are on social media and things like that. There's 92:31 been cases of kids losing their taking their lives because they're getting sex sorted 92:35 for money and that's something we have to figure out really quickly and there 92:43 is actual call centers in like Africa that are doing this and there are a 92:48 few guys that were extradited for the death of a Michigan teenager who took 92:51 his life they were extradited to the US and are facing charges for that guy 92:54 because these scammers they once they get a little bit of hit of money they 92:59 will continue on $300 $500 a thousand dollars and what they'll do is 93:04 they'll say, hey, you need to take your life 93:09 because of what you've done, 93:11 because we're gonna send this out to everybody 93:12 unless you send us more money. 93:13 And then you have a teenager that has no money. 93:15 Where did they go? 93:16 They're too ashamed to tell their parents. 93:18 That's a whole nother conversation. 93:20 Why are teenagers afraid to talk to their parents anyway? 93:23 What's going on in our families? 93:25 What's going on in our households? 93:26 Where's the faith? 93:27 Where's community? 93:28 Where's any of the stuff? 93:29 We have kids that are running away to technology 93:32 and they're getting extorted and losing their lives. 93:36 Like, it's just, it's crazy. 93:38 So there's that side. 93:40 There's the grandma scam. 93:43 There's also like the pig butchering scams. 93:46 Are you familiar with these? 93:48 No, it's literally the name, pig butchering. 93:52 It's the idea is there's various forms of them, 93:56 but one I'll tell you is you have someone 94:00 that is on let's just say Facebook and they see an ad for making money for getting a job. 94:07 They click on the ad and they start talking to someone on WhatsApp. 94:11 They put their information and someone messages them and this person is a successful entrepreneur. 94:16 They're an investor in crypto and they show them the photos of how much money they make and they 94:21 show their bank accounts and they show the returns and they're like, hey, I could do this. 94:24 I could do this with you too. All you got to start is with this much money 94:29 and 150 bucks, 100 bucks. 94:32 Person that wants to make a bunch of money 94:34 because they may not have a bunch, they give 150 bucks. 94:38 That person who's built the rapport, the scammer, 94:41 built the rapport with the victim, 94:43 oh my gosh, you've made $1,000 on that 150 bucks. 94:46 Look in your, look in this account, 94:47 it's a website that they create and then they spoof it all. 94:51 So that 150 now is, what is it, 1,150. 94:55 And that person's excited. 94:56 Sometimes they can even take the cash out 94:59 And then they're like, hey, you should put in some more money. 95:02 So now they feel a bit more bold and they put in more money. 95:05 And then that money's made more. 95:07 And they're like, don't you have more money in your accounts? 95:09 This is really hot. 95:10 Crypto's taken off. 95:12 I was just talking to the sheriff's department a couple 95:15 of months ago here, and they were telling me 95:17 about the Subzac scam. 95:18 It's going viral in this county. 95:20 Yep. 95:20 It's happening everywhere. 95:21 It's people that want to make money fast. 95:24 And then all of a sudden, they put everything in. 95:26 And what happens is they freeze the funds. 95:28 But there is no funds that you're just sending money to someone and then at the end they're like listen to get your 95:34 $150,000 out that you earned you've got to give us taxes or whatever 95:40 They never get the money and then after a while they're like oh, I've been scammed and 95:44 It's playing on our like it's not necessarily greed. It's like people trying to make ends meet. Yeah 95:49 Yeah, and that's pig butchering 95:51 But I had a guy I was at the local dump dropping off. I feel like I'm such an old man now like 95:59 But I like find happiness in like going to the dump 96:02 and like, you know, we have like boxes of Amazon boxes, 96:06 like recycling them versus like waiting for the trash guy to come. 96:10 Like I drive to the dump, like it makes me feel good 96:12 when my garage is clean and stuff. 96:14 So like I was at the dump and this guy is staring at me 96:17 and I'm like dropping off boxes. 96:18 It's not like a place you have conversations. 96:21 Like it's not like you and me sitting here 96:22 like having a talk. 96:23 Like I'm at the dump, like there's flies and stuff. 96:26 like, you know, this guy's staring at me and he's like, 96:29 he's a YouTube guy, whatever. 96:30 I'm like, yes. 96:32 And he got a pig butchering scam, $550,000. 96:36 He lost. 96:37 He lost everything. 96:38 Shit. 96:39 People are willing to lose everything 96:42 because they're, like, afraid of missing out on this, 96:45 like, whether it's crypto or whatever. 96:47 And they're so easily manipulated by numbers and screens. 96:53 $550,000. 96:55 It's gone. 96:55 Black Friday is one of those times where you really find out if your business is 97:02 ready. 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It's instantly gone. It's very scary. And that's a huge that's where like 99:13 you'll see a lot of like Chinese and Eastern European scammers. They love playing in that 99:19 realm. There's also European scammers that are pretending to be companies like Robinhood 99:26 in Coinbase and they'll call people up that they know somehow have accounts and they'll 99:34 call up and say there's a problem with their account. 99:36 And when you start dealing with crypto, man, it goes so fast and I'm not saying it's untraceable, 99:42 but it goes, they're good about moving money, man, especially when you're using crypto. 99:47 So those are some of those. 99:49 there's also like the romance scam always makes me laugh man. Like we had the 100:00 landlord of our office building was telling me a story I won't go too deep 100:04 on personal of it but he had a family member that thought she was talking to 100:08 a country music star and had been sending like I think it was 150 or 100:15 $190,000 to this guy and buying phones and shipping them 100:20 and helping him write a new album. 100:24 And I'm pretty sure the artist was Garth Brooks, by the way. 100:28 I don't think he needs a grandma 100:33 to seed his next album, you know what I mean? 100:36 There's also a lady that was in, 100:38 I think she was in France 100:39 and she was being romance scammed by Brad Pitt 100:42 and she left her husband and had transferred 100:45 almost a million dollars to Brad Pitt that was in the hospital 100:49 and they were using AI and sending photos. 100:52 You might have to look up these photos, 100:54 like the AI photos of Brad Pitt in the hospital, 100:56 and this woman is leaving her husband to... 101:00 and she got a lot of shame for it because it, like, went viral. 101:05 She was leaving her husband for this guy, 101:07 for Brad Pitt and sending all their money to him. 101:10 But what happens is these scammers, 101:12 They- 101:13 Holy shit. 101:14 Yeah. 101:15 They find their victims on Facebook, these lonely people on Facebook, on Instagram, and 101:20 it is not the person on the other side who you think you're talking to is not the person, 101:24 dude. 101:25 It's like the dead internet theory, where like the idea that like 99% of the internet 101:31 is just like all bots and like scammers and stuff, and it's not real. 101:34 Like people were talking to in the comments. 101:37 It's not real. 101:38 I mean, I remember, this is a long time, this isn't a scam because I don't think it's a scam, 101:47 but I had a really good friend and he would, he would like sell all the shit on Facebook or 101:55 Marketplace. Yeah. And he would just, he would get a picture of some cute girl selling some 102:01 cleavage or whatever, and that would be the profile. Yes. Yeah. He would sell all the shit, 102:06 But that would be the profile yeah, and so it would always be guys that were buying all this shit, and then he would 102:12 That's it would be the one that meets them and they're like he would actually meet them 102:16 Yeah, he would he was just selling his shit. He wasn't scamming anybody 102:19 I guess he was I guess he was scamming but you know, they'd they'd they'd go to buy whatever a new couch 102:27 Or I don't know whatever the hell he's selling. Yeah, and they'd be like, oh, where's our car lady? 102:31 be like, oh, that's my sister. 102:32 There you go. 102:34 And I'm like, are you sure? 102:35 That is amazing. 102:36 And he was like, yeah, dude. 102:37 He was like, it works every time. 102:40 That's marketing, though. 102:41 I mean, it's hilarious. 102:43 That I don't think there's anything in the TOS about that. 102:46 I mean, it's, I think it's hilarious. 102:48 We live in a, again, I know everyone's talked about this, but that 102:51 speaks to like we live in such a connected world, but like also a 102:54 disconnected world where everybody wants this and I tell like a lot of 103:00 my, I don't have many friends anymore. 103:02 Like as you get older, your friends circle, like becomes like one person 103:06 because you can't like trust anybody, you know? 103:08 Oh, I know. 103:09 It's like, well, especially with, with, with what you do and what you can bring 103:15 people and yeah, it's, it's like you, it's your, your identity, kind of, to 103:20 other people becomes like what you do or whatever on the internet versus 103:23 like, and you're always talking about it. 103:25 And you're like, I have other things, man. 103:28 Lonely, man. 103:29 Yeah, it's lonely. 103:30 And what like how do you deal with that my wife has grounded me a lot like centered me and like 103:44 what's the most important things in my life I get to talk with her about and run by her 103:51 and my faith is the thing that sustains and has taught me so much Bible I had no idea I grew up 103:58 in church, I had no freaking idea. 104:00 Some of these things I've learned over the past couple of years. 104:02 You just always, yeah. 104:05 Are you always on guard? 104:07 I have the type of, I don't know if it's ADHD or something, but like, 104:13 where you're like a little paranoid. 104:17 And with people too, it's like, with meeting new people. 104:21 Yeah, I mean, it's kind of what I'm getting. 104:22 How do you, how do you figure out what you got? 104:25 Well, close to 10 million subs. 104:29 And everybody knows who you are. 104:31 A lot of people want something from you. 104:34 How do you figure out if they're genuine or not? 104:36 Do you have a checklist? 104:37 Yeah, I mean, we never, like, we never allow anyone, like, 104:43 I had a guy, a guy at, like, Whole Foods, like, 104:46 oh, I can do the best voices. 104:47 Let me come by your office and, like, I can be in a video. 104:50 And I'm like, no, like, you're not, I appreciate it, dude. 104:54 Like, I appreciate that you want to be in a video, 104:56 but like, I don't even know who you are, man. 104:58 Like, I'm sitting with my son, like, getting food. 105:01 Like, we're eating a pizza together. 105:03 And it's like, you know, like, my friends 105:07 from, like, high school and stuff, they know what I do, 105:09 and they're pretty chill about it, you know? 105:12 And, but I don't... 105:13 It's not like a badge of honor that, like, 105:15 I want to, like, come back and prove to everyone, 105:17 like, what I do now. 105:19 And, like, with people that see me, 105:20 like, we're very, like, private, I guess. 105:22 My wife and I, and, like, our family, 105:24 And we have a very small circle of people and it's almost like anyone that's outside of the orbit 105:29 Like you just I don't want to say you can't trust but you can't really trust anyone outside of the orbit 105:34 you have to have a small circle and 105:39 Yeah, like I hate that I hate being distrusting of the world and like having that viewpoint 105:46 like 105:48 Because like I you have to like go buy a pseudonym, you know, like I have to have blue hair 105:54 I had blue hair for five years, like that's not who I am, like, and then you like lose track of 106:00 yourself. You lose track of your actual identity and like you almost like start to separate yourself 106:04 from like this online persona and then who you really are. And as I have come back more into 106:11 alignment with that and understanding the tree like values in my heart what I believe in my faith 106:16 and things like that, the most important things that stand out is like faith in my family and 106:21 other people nobody can do anything for me nobody can do something like what 106:26 nobody can give me something you know I mean yeah but I do want true connection 106:31 with people I I really I'm like thirsty for true connection someone that believes 106:38 the same things I believe that like has honesty and integrity and family-based 106:45 like where is that that's what where is that in the world we've kind of 106:50 I just started to see a little bit of people 106:52 going more towards that again. 106:55 It's tough, man. 106:56 It's something I struggle with all the time as well. 107:00 I do have kind of a checklist, 107:02 but I don't really want to go through it here because- 107:04 That's fair. 107:05 Yeah. 107:06 There's someone writing down here. 107:07 All of a sudden, everybody will fit the checklist, 107:09 but I mean, if nobody wants something, 107:11 if someone doesn't want something from me, 107:13 I'm very happy. 107:15 Like, they don't want me to,
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