Show full transcript 1:04 It's perfect for athletes. 1:06 And he was right. 1:07 I've worn one ever since. 1:09 Every time I work out, I see how hard I worked, 1:12 how long I need to recover. 1:13 I wake up in the morning and I get a complete picture 1:16 of how my sleep went, which helps me understand 1:19 the kinds of things that lead to a bad night 1:21 and the kinds of things that lead to a good night. 1:24 It's sleek, long lasting battery. 1:26 And now with AI looking at all my numbers 1:28 and coaching me. 1:30 Whoop is a winner. 1:32 New members can try Whoop with a 30-day free trial 1:35 before committing to a membership. 1:37 That's whoop.com for your free month of Whoop. 1:41 Let's talk about something everyone has an opinion on, 1:44 healthcare. 1:45 We all know it should work better than it does. 1:48 Optum believes that too, and they're trying to improve it. 1:51 They're helping healthcare teams 1:52 and pharmacy services work together, 1:54 like bringing primary care and prescription drugs 1:57 straight to your home so you can stay on top of your health. 2:00 Optum's also building technology 2:02 that connects the whole healthcare system 2:03 so it can better take care of the whole person, you. 2:08 Optum is making healthcare work as one for everyone. 2:11 See what Optum's up to at optum.com. 2:23 Last time on Where's Dia? 2:28 I think we just got called over 2:30 to put all kinds of footprints everywhere 2:32 and to just damage the crime scene, basically. 2:35 You know, in my opinion, they've always known it was a murder because the video shows that. 2:42 And why the video that was here at the ranch. 2:55 One day, about three years after deer went missing, the Riverside Sheriff's Department made a dramatic move. 3:04 Around a dozen police cars swarmed beneath a Vista Ranch. 3:08 A white and green sheriff's helicopter flew above. 3:12 Local CBS News reporter David Godfreyton rushed to the scene to report the unfolding events. 3:19 Neighbours woke up early Sunday morning to the sound of a sheriff's helicopter flying over 3:25 D.A. Abrams Ranch near Idlewild. 3:28 The cops demanded, through a loudspeaker, that Keith Harper come outside. 3:34 They handed him a search warrant. 3:36 And on a large trailer, the cops carted in a heavy backhoe, presumably to dig. 3:49 Did you know what happened a couple weeks ago? 3:52 Yeah. 3:53 Yeah, they went in the helicopter and all that, you know, which was like, 3:57 Yay, finally! 3:59 Julie Stanford is dear's longtime Ida Wilde friend. 4:03 When I spoke to her in October 2023, the cops had just searched the ranch. 4:08 For her, it felt like a glimmer of hope. 4:13 They must have thinked out because how could they go there and try to get the helicopter 4:17 and all the police to have something. 4:22 This all happened three years after Dia disappeared. 4:27 I couldn't help but wonder what information the cops had that made them search the ranch 4:32 again. 4:32 They would have had to show probable cause to get that search warrant, that a crime had 4:38 likely occurred on the ranch, and that evidence of the crime was going to be found there. 4:45 Though, when I tried to get a copy of the warrant from Riverside Superior Court, they 4:51 told me there wasn't one for that date, and redirected me to the one from 2020. 4:56 I don't know what the cops found at the ranch, if anything, because they haven't responded 5:06 to my questions about it, but what I do know is Harper wasn't arrested and he continued 5:13 living at Bonita Vista. 5:16 It felt like a huge anti-climax, this sudden flurry of activity and then once again 5:23 pretty much nothing as far as I could tell. 5:30 Unlike the cops, Clinton Abrams, dear son and Harper have been willing to share what they've discovered along the way. 5:40 Clinton has interviewed people who knew dear and followed all kinds of leads, leads that even I thought were too outlandish to pursue. 5:50 As for Harper, well, he's still working with those psychics. 5:55 In our season finale, where things stand today, as the search for deer continues. 6:06 I'm Lucy Sheriff, and this is Where's Deer. 6:12 Episode 6, spoils of war. 6:27 The food is in my truck and the water's in my truck. 6:30 I have a case of water on the boat and then I have a 55 gallon cooler on the boat. 6:34 You might remember Kelly Snyder from an earlier episode. 6:38 He's the former DEA agent who runs FindMe, the non-profit that searches for missing people. 6:45 You didn't get the word that I brought 500 bottles of water? 6:51 Right around the time the police showed up at the ranch last year, 6:55 Kelly, Harper and some others embarked on a search for Dia's body. 7:00 Keith, you ready? 7:03 I was out of the country. 7:04 So one of my producers, Jacob, tagged along instead. 7:10 The team was going to search the same lake 7:13 the cops had searched years earlier with their sonar equipment and divers. 7:19 Although the FIMI group was focusing on the shoreline of the reservoir 7:23 rather than the murky lake bed. 7:27 And actually, this was Harper and Kelly's second time 7:31 going to this particular part of Lake Hemet. 7:33 They've gone three months earlier with cadaver dogs and they've been a promising development. 7:40 The dogs had shown interest. 7:44 And when you have three dogs showing interest in the same exact area, then that's telling 7:50 you something to indicate that more than likely there's human remains in this vicinity. 7:58 But it wasn't just the dog's reaction that brought them back to this spot. 8:03 Like I mentioned before, Kelly's network of psychics share coordinates of where they 8:09 thought deer could be buried, and this spot in Lake Hemet was one of them. 8:15 So they felt like this place had potential. 8:19 On the first search, though, they couldn't reach the area where the dog showed interest. 8:24 The hole is approximately 30 to 40 feet deep and at the time we didn't have the dogs' 8:30 harnesses to lower them into the area. 8:32 This time we brought our boat and we're going to approach the area from the lake and then 8:37 the dogs can walk easily into the hole where we believe that the Abrams remains are either 8:44 buried or somewhere in that vicinity. 8:52 This time around they approached the spot from two different angles. 8:56 The dogs and their handlers go by boat. 8:59 Harper, Kelly and Jacob go by land, hiking towards the embankment. 9:05 The next one, do you see where that rod's coming down from the telephone pole? 9:10 Yeah, that's what I was zeroing in on. 9:12 The search team reaches the shore and the dogs do their thing. 9:21 After some time, the dog handlers hike over to Harper and Kelly to give them an update. 9:26 Their dog, Sol, detected something. 9:30 I got a full alert from Sol. 9:33 Say again? 9:34 I got a full alert from Sol. 9:37 If you've got a full blown alert, then that... 9:44 I can't guarantee it's a body, but there's something... 9:45 Yeah, remember when we talked about last time? 9:47 No, I know. 9:47 The cadaver dogs alerted to some kind of human presence. 9:52 But as one of the dog handlers points out, 9:54 The dog could be picking up on anything with a trace of what's referred to as human decomposition. 10:02 Basically, the scent that's emitted by human remains. 10:13 Without digging, there's no way to know exactly what's there. 10:19 And Kelly won't dig without the cops present. 10:22 and so reluctantly they have to stop there. Kelly will take note of their 10:28 coordinates and send them over to the cops hoping they'll return to the site 10:33 and continue the search. Kelly and Harper are disappointed to say the least 10:41 and somewhat surprised they look down the embankment towards the lake at a 10:47 washout of fallen trees and debris. I would have given money on this spot 10:53 I mean, to me, that's just perfect, but... 10:59 You can see where I would do it right down in here. 11:03 But how do you get there? 11:04 Well, there's a trail. 11:06 I know there's a trail, but holy shit, you're carrying a body, Keith. 11:10 Throughout this search, Kelly has been on and off the phone with one of his psychics. 11:16 She's been advising them on where she thinks Dia is buried. 11:20 Well I would tell her to summon Stia, she's a better one, see if she can see us. 11:27 Kelly calls his psychic one last time. Just in case, Dia's given her any extra guidance. 11:37 Pretty much, she said Dia didn't come to her. God damn it! She asked her to and that was 11:49 What, two, three hours ago? 12:00 I'd feel ten times more better if we just do with that one sight. 12:06 Harper has fixated on one particular spot that the psychic's pinpointed, and that he previously marked with flax. 12:15 He wants the dogs to search it again. 12:18 I just don't want to pass up an opportunity that could. 12:22 They understand we are coming from, but that's not where the dog showed interest. 12:28 That's the only reason I would say would discount it, that it would be not necessarily 12:34 a waste of time, but it's just if you have someone a psyche telling you that it's in 12:46 between certain flags and it's all in this area, would it hurt to spend another hour 12:53 or two just searching the general area one more time? 12:56 But Harper is vetoed, and so the search party and Jacob 13:01 decamp back to Bonita Vista Ranch to try and unpack the day 13:05 and have some much-needed lunch. 13:08 Can I get some frickin' bread here pretty soon? 13:11 He's working on it now. 13:12 Dude, calm down. 13:14 One of the dog handlers takes out his phone 13:16 and shows the group a video of the spot where the dog alerted. 13:21 Harper gets agitated. 13:23 Okay, was that a location of where the body was? 13:28 It was a location of something. 13:33 I don't need to hear that. 13:34 Well, I need to hear more specific. 13:38 Do we have a location where we believe that she is? 13:41 We have a location where we believe something is. 13:44 Okay. 13:44 That's put in Octetown. 13:45 It's under a boulder. 13:46 It's a 10-ton boulder. 13:48 I cannot say that that is a body. 13:51 and and but human decomp I mean my dogs are trained to alert on a tooth a 13:59 fragment of a bone any blood tissue so in your opinion there's something something 14:06 something putting decomp off finally Harper seems to give up so my my 14:15 understanding is that we're gonna file a report we're not going back out right 14:19 We're done. 14:20 I don't think there's much we can do in that area, 14:23 I mean that we haven't already covered 14:25 unless we've got new areas to search. 14:30 I debriefed with Kelly a few months after the search. 14:34 He was still confident that Deer is buried 14:37 in that Lake Hemet spot where the dog alerted. 14:41 He tells me he sent a second report 14:43 to the Riverside Sheriff's Department. 14:46 But as far as I know, they've not taken any action. 14:49 They have not gone back to search for our dogs who, incidentally, never, never, never met. 14:57 They say that there's something human where they alerted two of our dogs, our best dog. 15:02 And as far as we know, they have not gone there to search. 15:12 As I say these words, deer is still missing. 15:17 We can't even say whether she's dead or alive. 15:20 life. It's easy to get caught up in the chaos of Dia's story, people turning on each other, 15:28 wild theories that are almost too wild to believe. There is, after all, a special kind 15:35 of ugliness that rears its head when money's involved. But I keep coming back to the fact 15:43 that at the centre of all of this, is a woman who, one day in 2020, just suddenly 15:49 disappeared from her own home. One moment she was there, the next moment she was not. 15:57 And that, regardless of who or how or why, is truly heartbreaking. 16:04 For now, all that remains is a group of people racing to find out the truth in their own way, 16:12 racing against the clock, as one very important date swiftly approaches. 16:21 More on that after the break. 16:35 This is Jacob Goldstein from Business History. 16:38 Imagine Henry Ford trying to create the assembly line. 16:41 He had factory plans, production schedules, supply information, research, and ideas coming 16:46 from all directions. 16:48 His team spent years studying how to make the process work. 16:51 Now imagine having chat GPT work. 16:54 Chat GPT work can help with big projects that have lots of steps. 16:58 apps. You give it the goal along with real information like notes, files, reports, feedback 17:03 and project plans. It can use approved apps, connected tools and files to help turn all 17:09 of that into something useful. A plan, an analysis, a tracker, a presentation outline 17:14 or a workflow you can keep improving. And you stay in control. You give direction, 17:20 review the work, approve actions and choose the final result. Would Henry Ford have 17:24 built the assembly line faster with ChatGPT? 17:27 We'll never know. 17:28 Ford didn't have ChatGPT. 17:30 You do. 17:31 Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. 17:35 Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode, 17:39 available on plus and pro plans. 17:42 Okay, let's talk about something 17:43 everyone has an opinion on, healthcare. 17:46 Everyone can agree that something this important 17:49 should work better than it does. 17:51 Turns out patients aren't the only ones who think that. 17:54 Optum does too, and it's why they're working day in and day out to improve it. 17:59 Never heard of Optum? Think of them as the engine of healthcare. They bring 18:04 together clinicians, care teams, and the way you get in manager medications, and 18:09 they use data and technology to help the health systems we all use work 18:12 better as a whole, not as disconnected pieces. Because they connect all these 18:17 pieces, Optum can take a more whole-person approach to healthcare, 18:20 like helping patients connect to mental health support quickly 18:24 and bringing primary care and prescription deliveries 18:27 straight to their home so people can stay on top of their health. 18:30 Those things make a big difference. 18:32 And they show that Optum really is trying to make healthcare better, 18:36 that their clinicians, pharmacists, data scientists, engineers, 18:39 everyone is putting in the work to improve it every day. 18:43 See what Optum's up to at Optum.com. 18:46 For I don't know how long, maybe 12, 13 years, 18:49 years, I've worn a whoop band on my wrist. I started doing it because I met the founder 18:54 of whoop at a conference. He heard that I was a runner and he said, oh, you'll love this. 18:59 It's perfect for athletes. And he was right. I've worn one ever since. Every time I work 19:04 out, I see how hard I worked, how long I need to recover. I wake up in the morning 19:09 and I get a complete picture of how my sleep went, which helps me understand the 19:13 kinds of things that lead to a bad night and the kinds of things that lead to a 19:17 Good night. 19:18 Whoop is no screen. 19:19 It doesn't need to be recharged every five minutes. 19:22 It's sleek, handsome, and everywhere I go, 19:25 I can instantly see who's part of the whoop community. 19:29 Whoop offers three membership tiers. 19:31 Power your performance with the lowest price at whoop one. 19:34 Improve your health now and for the future with whoop peak 19:37 and tap into medical grade health insights with whoop life. 19:42 Whoop is a winner. 19:43 New members can try whoop with a 30 day free trial 19:46 before committing to a membership. That's whoop.com for your free month of whoop. 19:59 In the background of all of these searches and theories, a date is fast-looming, 6th of June, 20:07 2025. That's the day. The deer will be declared dead. Her estate will be split up, 20:15 50% to Harper, 25% to Clinton, and 25% to Crissara, her daughter. 20:23 It's hard to imagine that the date isn't on everyone's mind, like some ticking time bomb. 20:30 Because if any of those three are found to be involved in deer's disappearance, they get nothing. 20:42 While Harper searched with dogs and psychics, Clinton focused on tactics. 20:48 He pushed for some of Dears' property to be liquidated, and with those funds, the court 20:56 appointed guardian who represents Dears' estate set up a tip hotline, and a $300,000 reward 21:05 was established for anyone with information leading to an arrest and conviction, or 21:11 the discovery of Dears' whereabouts. 21:15 But this wasn't just any old reward. Oh no. This, as Clinton explained to me, was a trap 21:24 for Harper. 21:32 Well, the way I structured it was that the reward was going to be the bait and it would 21:38 be made manifest that he was involved in my mother's disappearance and he wouldn't get 21:45 anything and we'd have the case solved and we'd have him removed. 21:48 Right. So was it your idea then to, because there's that really interesting caveat where 21:56 if one party is found to have an involvement, everything goes to the other party. Was that 22:02 your suggestion? 22:03 Yeah, that was me. 22:05 Oh, wow. Okay. 22:07 That was my little trap strategy. 22:10 But it backfired. Despite his efforts, Clinton has never been able to pin anything on Harper. 22:17 Harper, and now Harper is in line to get 50% of his mother's estate. It was a gamble, 22:24 Clinton admits, and now he regrets it. He gambled too much. 22:29 Uh, and I couldn't believe that I compromised with, with, you know, the devil. 22:38 When that little trap didn't work, Clinton tried something else. He attempted to work 22:44 with Harper directly. Harper sent me a screenshot of their conversation. And this is what Clinton texted 22:52 him. Harper, you want a deal? What is the deal, Clinton? I want you to flip on all the others. 23:00 I can get you off free. This can't stay secret forever. You are getting older. I'm not after 23:07 you for anything related to deer. We can work out finances so you are happy. If you have 23:13 real information on what happened to Dia. I just want to know. I was definitely quite surprised. 23:22 It felt like a pretty brazen move from Clinton. Why do you think he's saying that? 23:35 This is what, you know, I thought originally he was asking to kind of work together and 23:45 And then the more I got into it, what he's asking it's for me to come forward and kind 24:03 of tell him that I'm responsible. 24:07 And then he has something to go back to law enforcement with, you know, it's what I kind 24:15 of got. 24:15 What? 24:17 Clinton insists that he was just trying to get information out of Harper. 24:21 Either way, Harper does not fall for Clinton's booby trap. 24:26 It all feels like a strange loop, but it's almost satisfying. 24:31 These two sides, who've been at war, trying to pin the blame, okay, still trying to 24:37 pin the blame on each other, coming together to try to work out some kind of deal. 24:44 Despite all of Clinton's strategizing, 24:47 nothing really seems to happen to Harper. 24:50 Until in November 2023, the same month as Kelly's search, 24:56 Harper ends up getting into hot water all by himself. 25:01 He gets himself kicked off the ranch. 25:06 Harper texts a real estate agent, 25:09 asking if she's interested in listing the ranch for sale. 25:12 Word gets out that Harper is trying to sell Dia's ranch, even though he doesn't have the authority to do so. 25:20 And five days later, a judge removes Harper as trustee of Dia's estate, just like that. 25:31 Later that month, eviction notices are posted outside the ranch. 25:37 It seems Harper's time at Benita Vista is up. 25:42 He denies trying to sell the ranch and considers fighting the decision. 25:50 The purpose was to determine the value. 25:53 What is the value, finally, of the property? 25:56 Right. 25:56 And anyway, to touch the school, he said, 26:01 yeah, it looks like you were intending to listen to it. 26:04 And I said, no, I was not. 26:07 And anyway, that's how I got removed from trustee. 26:12 Eventually, Harper packs his bags and leaves. Even though he's removed as trustee, it doesn't 26:20 affect him potentially getting half of Dia's assets. I call him as he, once more, is doing 26:27 that long, long drive from Ida Wilde across the deserts of Arizona into New Mexico. 26:33 Okay. 26:34 I left the ranch today. 26:37 Wow. 26:39 How does that feel? 26:40 You know, it was a tough, tough, tough thing. 26:45 But the situation you get, 26:47 either you work with the court or you work against them, 26:52 and they can take away all your privileges, you know? 26:59 So after a long consideration, 27:01 in time I decided to leave and so my concern is this that if I'm gone they 27:13 will never work at finding her. I keep imagining Bonita Vista Ranch now that 27:24 Harper's gone. Those impressive western-style gates locked and chained 27:30 shut. Deer's antiques gathering dust, the endless land stretching towards the mountains, 27:38 slowly growing wild. I wonder how Deer would have felt. Her pride and joy, her home, sitting 27:47 empty. Soon it could be sold to some stranger who will probably fit it out in that modern 27:57 will be gone. But what happens to the people in her life? What happens to that vacuum she 28:06 left behind? We'll be right back. 28:29 This is Jacob Goldstein from Business History. Imagine Henry Ford trying to create the assembly 28:34 line. He had factory plans, production schedules, supply information, research, and ideas coming 28:40 from all directions. His team spent years studying how to make the process work. Now 28:45 Now imagine having chat GPT work. 28:48 Chat GPT work can help with big projects that have lots of steps. 28:52 You give it the goal along with real information like notes, files, reports, feedback, and project 28:57 plans. 28:58 It can use approved apps, connected tools, and files to help turn all of that into 29:03 something useful. 29:04 A plan, an analysis, a tracker, a presentation outline, or a workflow you can keep improving. 29:10 And you stay in control. 29:12 You give direction, review the work, approve actions, and choose the final result. 29:17 Would Henry Ford have built the assembly line faster with ChatGPT? 29:21 We'll never know. 29:22 Ford didn't have ChatGPT. 29:23 You do. 29:24 Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. 29:29 Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode, available on plus and pro plans. 29:35 Okay, let's talk about something everyone has an opinion on, healthcare. 29:39 Everyone can agree that something this important should work better than it does. 29:44 Turns out patients aren't the only ones who think that. 29:48 Optum does too, and it's why they're working day in and day out to improve it. 29:53 Never heard of Optum? 29:55 Think of them as the engine of healthcare. 29:57 They bring together clinicians, care teams, and the way you get in manager medications. 30:02 And they use data and technology to help the health systems we all use work better as a whole, 30:07 people, not as disconnected pieces. 30:10 Because they connect all these pieces, Optum can take a more whole-person approach to healthcare, 30:15 like helping patients connect in mental health support quickly and bringing primary care 30:19 and prescription deliveries straight to their home so people can stay on top of their 30:23 health. 30:24 Those things make a big difference. 30:26 And they show that Optum really is trying to make healthcare better, that their clinicians, 30:30 pharmacists, data scientists, engineers, everyone is putting in the work to improve 30:35 it every day. See what Optum's up to at Optum.com. 30:40 For I don't know how long, maybe 12, 13 years, I've worn a whoop band on my wrist. I started 30:47 doing it because I met the founder of whoop at a conference. He heard that I was a runner 30:51 and he said, oh, you'll love this. It's perfect for athletes. And he was right. I've worn 30:56 one ever since. Every time I work out, I see how hard I worked, how long I need 31:00 to recover. I wake up in the morning and I get a complete picture of how my sleep went, 31:06 which helps me understand the kinds of things that lead to a bad night and the kinds of things 31:10 that lead to a good night. Whoop is no screen. It doesn't need to be recharged every five 31:15 minutes. It's sleek, handsome, and everywhere I go, I can instantly see who's part of 31:21 the Whoop community. 31:22 Whoop offers three membership tiers. Power your performance with the lowest price 31:26 at Whoop One, improve your health now and for the future with Whoop Peak and tap into 31:32 medical grade health insights with Whoop Life. 31:36 Whoop is a winner. 31:37 New members can try Whoop with a 30-day free trial before committing to a membership. 31:41 That's whoop.com for your free month of Whoop. 31:54 In some way or another, deer's disappearance has shaped the life of everyone in this 31:59 podcast, including mine. As I wound down my reporting, it felt right to touch base with 32:06 them all, to see how they were moving on, how they were finding closure. 32:12 I'll start with the one silver lining I found in all this mess. 32:18 Dia's siblings, Peggy and Jim, had told me how much they missed their niece and nephew, 32:23 you, Chrysara and Clinton. How sad they were that their family was estranged. And so I spoke 32:30 to Clinton, and I suggested perhaps he might want to reconnect with his aunt and uncle, given 32:36 that his father was dead and his mother was still missing. Eventually, he gave them a 32:42 call. 32:43 It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable seeing him. Just to see our nephew. 32:49 you. This is Peggy Kenchelow, dear sister. And if anything came out of this tragedy is this, 32:57 that we have our nephew back. We have him. We have him back. He's our kid. You know, 33:03 I'm sorry about whatever horrible thing happened to my sister I am. But we have my nephew back. 33:11 Peggy's trying hard to move on, despite the toll it's taken on her and her family. 33:16 It's an emotional Katrina, you know, it came in, it washed everything out. 33:30 She's not the only one who felt like things fell apart when deer disappeared. 33:35 It's been four years of nonstop obsession of the mind and the gravitational pull that 33:45 I cannot seem to extricate myself from no matter how hard I try. 33:49 I just have to do something to always try and move the ball forward. 33:57 Thanks to his years of research, 34:00 Clinton's developed a theory about Harper and about what happened to his mother. 34:06 To me, he's culpable, he's guilty, 34:10 but he also serves as the patsy, as the fall guy and as the low-hanging fruit. 34:18 He's the easy guy to pin this on and I think there are so many other people involved and 34:25 so many other people who know and I think as long as law enforcement doesn't pursue those 34:32 other angles and ask, you know, deeper questions, I don't think they'll ever solve the case. 34:40 Clinton doesn't believe that Harper is solely to blame for Dears' disappearance. 34:44 Yeah, I don't give too much credit to Keith Harper. 34:48 I don't think he's a criminal mastermind. 34:50 I think he's a buffoon. 34:52 I think focusing too much on him, 34:56 it's just too narrow of a perspective. 35:03 His theory is that a motorcycle gang took deer, 35:08 an underground, sinister intelligence operation 35:11 that has access to high-tech surveillance equipment. 35:14 He believes Harper struck a deal with this gang. 35:20 Let's go with your theory for a minute. 35:23 If she's kidnapped and she's killed by somebody who isn't Harper, 35:30 what is the motive? Like, what are they getting out of it? 35:36 They're getting a 115-acre ranch and millions of dollars in antiques and jewelry 35:45 and I think the actual property was desired. 35:49 I think there was a deal amongst multiple people 35:53 to split the spoils of war, so to speak. 35:58 Clinton believes this gang would be able 36:00 to access deer's assets through Harper. 36:03 But there is, of course, no evidence to prove this. 36:14 When I first interviewed Clinton, 36:17 we met in San Diego out in the open at a coffee shop. 36:21 But that's the last time we met face-to-face. 36:25 Since his mother disappeared, he seems to have become increasingly paranoid, sending 36:31 me hundreds of emails, with what he says is evidence he's being harassed. 36:38 He's convinced his house is bugged, that he's under surveillance by this gang who 36:43 killed deer. 36:45 I've received a tremendous amount of harassment while I've had lurid pornography left 36:50 on my mailbox. I've received unmarked packages that contain very obscure threats and also direct 37:01 threats. I've had loud motorcycles that have basically kind of followed me and stalked me 37:10 for a number of years. Clinton is adamant that the same people who killed his mother 37:18 are out to get him. 37:20 I believe it was, you know, a message to me, you know, we can get to you too. 37:26 And I truly understand that it, you know, sounds crazy to most people. 37:34 I don't know whether Clinton is paranoid or if he is truly being harassed by some kind 37:40 of gang, but he was sent this really crazy package. 37:46 I've seen pictures of it. 37:47 The envelope didn't have proper postage, so it was likely hand-delivered. 37:53 On the front, it said, 37:56 Important information about Lydia Kenshelow Abrams. 38:01 There were all these court documents inside about rich people who disappeared in mysterious circumstances 38:08 and the fights that ensued over their money. 38:11 There was a letter too, which made some pretty far-fetched claims. 38:18 It read, 38:19 The reason for this letter is anonymous, because the FBI is criminally corrupt. 38:26 They will a death sentence for innocent people to cover up themselves, leaving you with no 38:32 one and nowhere to turn. 38:34 The authorities cannot find bodies. 38:42 The letter ended with an ominous line. 38:45 we are really interested to see how you act when you get this letter because it 38:51 will tell us a lot about all of you to this day Clinton has no idea who sent 38:58 this or if they might be involved in Dears disappearance but understandably 39:04 it freaked him out I mean how concerned have you been for your family 39:11 safety. Extremely concerned, very concerned. Have you thought about just stopping your search? 39:22 Yeah, I have. I don't know if I can move on so long as we don't have answers. So frustrating is 39:37 I know that people know, but they just won't say. 39:43 The fact that half of Diaz's estate will go to her maybe, maybe not fiancée, Keith Harper, 39:49 would be a bitter pill for me to swallow. 39:52 It's never been about, to me, what I get, but the principle that he gets 50% when 40:02 And I know that he knows what happened to her 40:05 and is involved, is disgusting. 40:09 My mother always told my sister and I, 40:12 this is for you kids, this is for, 40:14 you know, I'm building this for you guys, 40:15 I hope you cherish it. 40:17 And I know she poured her heart and soul 40:19 into that property to an extreme extent 40:23 and just loved it wholeheartedly. 40:27 And the fact that it's gonna be liquidated 40:31 I did just instantaneously and split amongst all parties, breaks my heart, and the fact 40:39 that Keith Harper, in my view, a scumbag, gets 50%. 40:46 I'd rather it go to anybody but him. 40:52 It's strange to think back to when I first started investigating Dears' disappearance. 40:57 parents, I was so desperate for leads to speak to someone who knew her, and I got what 41:03 I wanted. I've had these two men who knew her well, bombarding me with theories that 41:09 feel so big, so outlandish, that they can't possibly be true. Can they? 41:20 When I first interviewed Harper, he told me he didn't know what happened to Dea, 41:25 that perhaps she'd run off. Later, he told me he couldn't understand how the surveillance tapes on 41:32 Diaz Ranch hadn't captured what had happened to her. And then, as he began working with Kelly's 41:39 Psychics, Hopper changed his story. He told me that the surveillance tapes had captured what had 41:46 happened. That three people had kidnapped her, and he'd watched it all. Even now, it's 41:55 hard to pin him down to one concrete story. 42:02 Do you think you're ever going to get closure about what happened? Like, how long are you 42:08 going to fight for? How long are you going to keep persisting with- 42:14 Until she is brought forward. And that could happen in the next couple of weeks. 42:18 So let's say, let's say body is found. Do you feel confident that a perpetrator is also 42:27 going to be brought to justice? 42:30 Yes. 42:32 I think once they put Clinton under investigation, he will fail. 42:39 For now, Harper is living in Colorado, although he still owns his 85 acres of land in a remote 42:47 corner of Arizona. He's filed a motion to get half a million dollars out of Dears' estate. 42:55 Half, he says, is to compensate for the time he spent working on the ranch. 43:01 The other half is paying that money he says he put into the ranch while he lived there. 43:10 As for Julie Stanford, she felt like Ida Wilde changed after her friend went missing. 43:16 It didn't feel like this safe, idyllic community anymore. 43:21 Julie told me she was scared. 43:24 Scared that she knew something she wasn't supposed to know. 43:29 And so, she left and moved away, halfway across the world. 43:34 She's haunted by memories of her friend. 43:40 I don't know, it just it's such that I couldn't rescue her this time. 43:49 That was good skin killing me that I couldn't rescue her this time. 43:53 At first, Julie was stuck between theories. 43:57 To me, the viable suspects are the kids or Harper. 44:01 All along, I thought, if you do one of those. 44:04 Julie remembers a telling remark Dea made 44:07 sometime after Dea had changed her trust to include Harper. 44:11 She can't remember if Dea told her firsthand 44:14 or if she heard it from a mutual friend. 44:18 But what she said when she did the paperwork, 44:23 and she goes, here's your damn ranch, Harper. 44:27 Wow. 44:29 Yeah, like she was bugging her for it. 44:33 I think he just wanted stuff. 44:35 He always wanted stuff. 44:38 It's memories like this that caused Julie 44:41 to change her mind about Clinton and Chrysara 44:44 and turn her attention to Harper. 44:47 There might be no reason for the kids to do anything, 44:49 George, because they were already off the wheel. 44:51 So my basic feeling now, I didn't want to think this in the beginning because I liked Harper 44:58 because Harper was helping Dia. But that's not the feeling I have about him now. I think 45:05 Harper is responsible for Dia's disappearance. And I frankly am afraid of him. 45:13 Can I record this conversation? 45:26 You can always record the conversation and nothing to hide. 45:31 Right before we released this series, I gave Harper one more call. With so many fingers 45:37 pointed at him, I felt like I needed to talk to him again. And I had questions of my own 45:43 I wanted to ask. 45:45 Even in our conversations over the years, I've noticed discrepancies in things that 45:52 you have told me. Contradictions. And so it doesn't look good. I've got to be 45:59 honest it doesn't look great and why are you talking to me then because i'm i'm a journalist and it's 46:10 my job to get all sides of the story bring out bring out bring out bring out specific things let's 46:16 talk about that okay so i brought out specific things i have been i asked him if there was 46:23 something more to his friendship with diana fetta no i don't know i asked him why he changed 46:29 his story about the security camera footage on the ranch. 46:33 I was advised by the attorney that I was to examine that, but I was not to say anything 46:41 until after the investigation was completed. 46:46 I asked him about leaving town so soon after Dia went missing. 46:50 I have told multiple times why I leave. 46:53 To pay a tax bill. 46:54 What was happening? 46:55 What was happening? 46:56 What was happening on the day that that investigation was to happen? 47:03 The cops were going to show up and search the ranch. 47:06 They were going to come up and search the ranch, they had called and they said, we will 47:10 close the ranch down when we arrive. 47:14 Any vehicle that you have on the property must be removed or it will stay. 47:19 What would you do? 47:20 So, if you knew how this was going to play out and you were going to be suspected, 47:25 Would you have stayed? 47:30 I didn't suspect that I thought we were dealing with a missing person. 47:38 Harper has an answer for all of it. 47:41 And insists everything I've been told is pure speculation.
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