Volts podcast: battery analyst Chloe Holzinger on the possible futures for lithium-ion

Welcome back, my Volts friends, to the Battery Week that never ends. (Just kidding — this is the last of it.)

For several weeks now, I have had my head buried in batteries, specifically, lithium-ion batteries: how they work, why they have taken over so fast, what different varieties are competing for which markets, and where innovation will take them in the future.

Even with as many PDFs as I’ve read, I'm still learning every day just how much I don't know. I'm not going to lie: I still have the Wikipedia page for lithium-ion batteries open in a tab.

So I thought it would be nice to round out battery week with someone who actually knows what they're talking about. To that end, I was happy to chat with Chloe Holzinger, a battery analyst at IHS Markit. (At least, that’s what she was when I spoke with her, and how I introduce her on the pod; since then, she’s become an Investment Associate with The Engine, a venture capital firm spun out of MIT.)

Chloe keeps up with lithium ion batteries for a living, so I was eager to talk with her about the growing market, the raw materials that make up batteries and their possible supply problems, the coolest new innovations in batteries, from solid state to liquid metal, and much more. She was generous with her time and I learned a ton. Enjoy.

David Roberts

Hello, everyone, this is Volts and I am your host, David Roberts. For several weeks now, I have had my head buried in batteries, specifically, lithium ion batteries: how they work, why they have taken over so fast, what different varieties are competing for which markets, and where innovation will take them in the future. Even with as many PDFs as I have under my belt now, I'm still learning every day just how much I don't know. I'm not going to lie, listeners, I still have the Wikipedia page for lithium ion batteries open in a tab.

So I thought it would be nice to round out battery week with someone who actually does know what they're talking about. To that end, I am joined today by Chloe Holzinger, a battery analyst with the clean energy technology and renewables team at IHS Market, a research and analysis firm. Chloe keeps up with lithium ion batteries for a living. So I was eager to talk with her about the growing market, the raw materials that make up batteries and their possible supply problems, the coolest new innovations in batteries, from solid state to liquid metal and much more. She was generous with our time and I learned a ton. So without further ado, let's get to the conversation.

Welcome, Chloe. Thanks for coming on Volts.

Chloe Holzinger

Thanks, David. Thanks for having me.

David Roberts

All right, let's start maybe just a little bit by telling us how you ended up in the battery area studying batteries, analyzing batteries in the battery market. It's a strange niche field; how'd you end up there?

Chloe Holzinger

Yeah, I sort of fell into it by accident, as so many people do. I got my undergraduate degree in Marine Chemistry and my master's degree in Mechanical Engineering, and happened to find the one startup in the Boston area that was developing batteries for underwater applications. So I joined them as employee number six, got a patent, and worked for them until they got acquired by a defense contractor. I then hopped over to the market intelligence field, where I've been covering the broader next generation battery technology area, and the various end applications for batteries. And I've been here ever since.

David Roberts

How long has that been? How long have you been immersed in batteries?

Chloe Holzinger

Total, including the startup experience, is probably about five years.

David Roberts

It's been an active time in that field! Let's just briefly talk about what lithium ion batteries are and where they came from. I think everybody's heard of them. At this point, they've kind of gotten a lot of hype, but maybe tell us when they entered the market, their market development and why they're kind of reaching this crescendo of hype right now.

Chloe Holzinger

Sure. So I can provide a very brief history here. Lithium ion batteries were kind of invented separately at different stages by different companies. If I remember correctly, Kodak did some innovation on actual tape casting, which is the process that's used to actually make lithium ion batteries. Some of the core lithium ion battery technology itself was actually developed at Exxon way back when; they just kind of sat on that. Then some other different key breakthroughs were also developed at different corporations; I think Sony was one of them as well. I may apologize if I got any of that wrong. But they really were initially commercialized for the consumer electronics industry.

Then smartphones and computing power got much better, laptops became more commonplace, they were able to eventually make the jump from consumer electronics and these small applications, to electric vehicles, whether you're talking about a Tesla or Toyota hybrid, lithium ion batteries have been pretty crucial. And now we're seeing them used in all these different kinds of electric mobility applications, as well as the grid storage space.

David Roberts

What was the first time they showed up in an electric vehicle? Because, just intuitively, the leap from a laptop to electric vehicle seems like a pretty far leap. Who had that idea and made that happen the first time?

Chloe Holzinger

You know, I don't actually know the exact history, but various people have been trying to make electric vehicles for a really long time. It's just before they were trying with lead acid batteries. So there were a few electric vehicle prototypes in Jimmy Carter's time, and they obviously didn't really go anywhere. As much as people have lots of lots of opinions – and I certainly do as well – about Elon Musk, you got to credit Tesla for really making the electric vehicle really sexy and popular again.

David Roberts

Is it fair to say that Tesla, back in the Roadster era, which I guess was like 2008 or 2009, that that's kind of what kicked off the current frenzy of development? Or do you think it was inevitable?

Chloe Holzinger

I think both. I think Tesla was really there. Right place, right time, right idea, which is a pretty tough combination to come up with. I think regardless, you're seeing electric vehicles really rise in all different parts of the world and different companies really leading the charge. And it's such an integral part of decarbonizing transportation and industry. You know, if it wasn't for Tesla, I'm sure it would have been some other company. But it happens to be this particular American company that really got it started here in the States at least.

David Roberts

So, what's so great about lithium ion batteries? Let's just, just briefly kind of look at the chemistry in the materials. We had lead acid batteries, we had nickel metal hydride, nickel cadmium batteries; batteries have been around. So, at the sort of the chemistry level, what is it about lithium ion batteries, that's so great, that has allowed them to colonize these markets?

Chloe Holzinger

I could wax poetic about lithium ion batteries. A lot of what I do in my various market roles is talk about all these other non lithium chemistries that people are trying to develop. And there really isn't a better alternative to lithium ion batteries for electric vehicles. Lithium ion batteries are exactly the right combination of energy density, it has good enough cycle life, which means that it has a fairly good battery life, it has great power density, it's able to charge in a reasonable amount of time, you know, all of these different f