Josh Bowman talks with Albert Norton, a practicing attorney and author of several books on the tension between religion and postmodernism. His most recent book is The Discovered Self, just released, concerning what he regards as a dangerous inward turn to the therapeutic worldview. Our main topic is his 2023 book The Mountain and the River: Genesis, Postmodernism, and the Machine . Our conversation addresses themes of postmodernism, universals and particulars, ideology, totalitarianism, fascism, epistemology, Christian intellectuals in the church, and much more. Bert’s substack, “Sir Toast” - https://albertnorton.substack.com/ The Mountain and the River - https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-River-Genesis-Postmodernism-Machine/dp/1943003815?ref_=ast_author_dp The Discovered Self - https://www.amazon.com/Discovered-Self-Identity-Therapeutic-Age-ebook/dp/B0F1V4LL7B?ref_=ast_author_dp Check out Bert’s reflections on the recent Ciceronian Society conference here: https://albertnorton.substack.com/p/the-ciceronian-society Mentioned in this episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bees The 2026 Ciceronian Society Conference will be held March 12-14 at Creighton University in Omaha, NE. Panel and paper proposals are due September 1, 2025. To learn more about us, our events, this Podcast, our journal, Pietas, to sign up for our newsletter, and make your tax deductible gift, please go to https://ciceroniansociety.org/ 0:00 Introduction 4:00 Postmodernism 9:30 Moralistic Therapeutic Deism 14:02 The Mountain and the River 19:52 Differentiation 24:08 Balance 33:04 The Machine 40:11 Fascism 44:03 Church & Zeitgeist 49:05 Tragic Sense 54:27 Discovered Self 58:13 Emotions 1:02:19 Need for Community Chapters (00:00:00) - Introduction (00:04:00) - Postmodernism (00:09:30) - Moralistic Therapeutic Deism (00:14:02) - The Mountain and the River (00:19:52) - Differentiation (00:24:08) - Balance (00:33:04) - The Machine (00:40:11) - Fascism (00:44:03) - Church & Zeitgeist (00:49:05) - Tragic Sense (00:54:27) - Discovered Self (00:58:13) - Emotions (01:02:19) - Need for Community
