Five Years Later, The J6 Rioters Still Believe They Were The Patriots

On the five-year anniversary of January 6, Michael examines why the event continues to shape American politics—and why many of those involved still believe they were patriots. Political scientist Robert Pape explains how January 6 marked the beginning of an era of normalized political violence, while attorneys Michael van der Veen and Bill Brennan push back, offering firsthand perspectives from defending January 6 defendants. A wide-ranging, often tense conversation about belief, accountability, pardons, and what January 6 truly changed about America.