The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

Go to www.LearningLeader.com/becoming to learn more about "The Price of Becoming." -- My new book! Clark Lea is the head football coach at Vanderbilt… He's led one of the best turnaround stories in college football. He got hired as head coach in 2021 to inherit a program that had gone winless the year before. What he's built since is remarkable: a 40–35 upset of No. 1 Alabama, back-to-back SEC Coach of the Year awards, and Vanderbilt's first 10-win season in program history. He's won games and changed the culture. Key Learnings Better people make a better team. Development in one area is development in all areas. We're trained to see life in separate lanes (coach here, husband here, father here, student here, athlete here), but when you live that way, you're in constant conflict. Instead, see each person as a circle where all those roles define who we are, and development in one area is development in all areas. Show up on time, deliver on time, engage resources. If you show up on time, turn your work in on time, and engage the resources that are here to help you, you're not just going to survive, you're going to thrive. This is what it takes to be a great football player and a great student. "We are not victims in this process." After missing the playoffs, Clark told his team: This is the ground we stand on, this is who we are. Let's be really proud of what we accomplished, but also acknowledge we've fallen short, and that is no one else's fault. Vanderbilt football doesn't need to complain loud enough to get someone to change their mind. We need to play better football. The joy we can experience is equal and opposite to the pain we can experience. In athletics, you're suspended between the pain and the joy, and the depths of that pain can be excruciating. But the joy we get to experience together in a shared way is unbelievable. The entry fee is the acceptance of that. ?This is exactly where we're supposed to be because there are no mistakes." Driving into work the day Vanderbilt didn't make the playoffs, Clark realized: this is actually exactly where we're supposed to be because there are no mistakes. As a leader, they have to know who you are. How do you coach a team and make sure your personality shows up on the field? As a head coach, being open, honest, and exposed in front of the team is essential to leadership philosophy. Take new players through your entire story. Clark does an intake meeting with new players every year that runs an hour and a half. He starts with an image of himself as a kid and takes them through high school, college, his career journey, where he met his wife, where they got married, where each of his kids was born, the highs, lows, all of it. Then he takes them through the state of the program when he got here and every team since. Share your family with them. Clark's kids are around all the time, his wife comes out to practice, and they talk about things in an open and honest way. That's a gateway to really meaningful relationships, and that's been the bedrock of this program build. "Change is hard. Change is painful. Are you willing to go to the hard places?" This job has been a personal evolution for Clark, which has allowed for program evolution. He had to change, and he didn't know about going to the hard places until he took this job. When you get so obsessed with long-term goals, you leverage the moment in such a way that makes it impossible to breathe. Clark thought he was going to be a major league baseball player. He went to Birmingham Southern, won the NAIA World Series, but his skills were diminishing. He was experiencing the yips, a mental block, because he was holding it too tight. Even though you change places, your problems will follow you. Clark transferred to Belmont for a fresh start, but his skills diminished even further. It was humiliating and challenging to his identity. That year was really difficult. "Relatedness is our edge." Brotherhood is the most overused word; family is overused. Relatedness is this shared experience we have, a sense of belonging and community, a deep respect, a foundational respect. Once we learn how to see each other at that depth and understand one another and care for one another and fight for one another, we carry that as an edge in our performance. "Belief is a practice." Clark said four years ago that they're building the best program in the country, and everyone laughed except people internally. The phrasing is important: "We are building the best." That means it's early stages. Hope is passive; belief is an active decision. Hope is passive; belief is an active decision. When you hope for something, you kind of sit back, and you go, man, I hope that's the case. Belief is, I believe this is the case, so here's the thing I'm going to invest in that puts me on the pathway to actualizing that outcome. If the belief isn't there, your tolerance for sacrifice won't be there. You're going to see the entry fee, and you're going to hope that it happens. When we take belief into a practice, we make it happen. "I don't have to be bigger, faster, stronger in my role anymore, but I need to suffer." Anyone on an aspirational journey makes sacrifices. Clark's tolerance for suffering shows up in getting in the weight room and training, eating habits, social habits. "Make sure before you give the thumbs up that you get your skis up." Clark's dad taught him water skiing: if your skis are parallel or pointed downwards, you're going to go up and over those skis and just be dragged in the wake of the boat. As a leader, once Clark gets in the building, his time belongs to everybody else. He has to have his skis up in the morning. If you're late at night drinking, you're not going to be able to have that time in the morning to prepare yourself to be what I need to be for others. There's sacrifice, but it's also joyful. Sacrifice isn't something you have to do; it's actually what makes us special. "Head, body, head, body." This is from the movie The Fighter. This is Clark's mantra that puts you in the present: no matter what's happened, I'm not going to focus on what's come before, we're not going to forecast, we're going to be right where our feet are, and we're gonna remember the plan. Body shots accumulate. You can't knock the opponent out in one punch. Be the chief alignment officer and the chief reminding officer. Mike McDonald (Seahawks HC) said these are two of his primary roles. Clark uses the spear as a representation of alignment: the spear has to move in one direction to be effective. It doesn't matter what you say as a head coach in the team room if it's not taken into the tightest echo chambers. That environment's not powerful enough to inspire action. The culture of a school is defined in the classroom. For Clark, if what he says isn't taken to the position groups and reinforced, then driven into behavior, they're going to lose alignment and lose focus. "The culture of a school is defined in the classroom. Good teachers make for a good experience. Poor teachers make for challenging experiences." You can never tire of driving the standards and behaviors. The reminding part is: how tired can you get of driving the standards and behaviors? The skill becomes, can we focus on the things that impact winning? Let me focus on the things that are most important and let me be relentless in making sure those show up. Clark is reminding coaches, players, staff, all of it, and helping them and guiding them into driving accountability within their spaces. Then he has to let the program breathe a little bit. Performance can't be tight, it can't be restrictive. Clark needs his guys to bring their unique personalities and their creative energy that makes it so much more fun, and it shows up on the field. Let me remind you of who we are and what we do and how we do these things and how it impacts winning. But then let me let you be yourself and bring your personality and help us elevate this program, not just be a part of it. "Coach, I look forward to coming to Vanderbilt to help you win championships." When Diego Pavia got off the phone with Clark after their first conversation, he said this in the most genuine way. Clark had spent a lot of time trying to convince a lot of people of what was possible at Vanderbilt, and that felt like the first time that someone was meeting him right where he was. "The world doesn't need a watered down Diego Pavia." When Diego's at his best, he's being himself. It's also important to have boundaries, and without conflict, there's erosion. So you have to fight for those boundaries. "We really are a group of misfits." Brian Longwell, one of their linebackers, commented during a team building exercise. A five star coming to Vanderbilt is not your typical five star. That choice in and of itself is the acceptance of a challenge. The misfit ignores the external and tends to the internal." As we elevate our people, we don't ever lose our identity. As long as they're true to who they are, the people they accept in this program will quickly get in lockstep with where they're moving. Reflection Questions What area of your life are you treating as separate from the others? Development in one area is development in all areas. How would this shift change your approach? Are you practicing hope or practicing belief? Hope is passive, belief is active. What would change if you made the shift? Do you have your skis up in the morning? What sacrifices do you need to make the night before to be what you need to be for others? More Learning: #062: Jim Tessel - Servant Leadership Through Coaching #325: Ron Ullery - Demanding Excellence & Delayed Gratification #503 - Sherri Coale - The Art of Asking & Winning On & Off the Court Audio Chapters: 00:00 The Price of Becoming 01:10 The Turnaround at Vanderbilt 02:48 Coaching Network and Mentors 04:48 Winning with Academic Standards 07:48 Have a No Victim Mindset 11:56 Leaders Must Share Your Story 17:27 Relatedness Is Our Edge 18:44 Belief Is a Practice 21:30 Belief As Practice 23:13 Sacrifice And Suffering 24:30 Do You Have Your Skis Up? 26:05 The Head-Body Mantra 27:35 Leaders Must Align And Remind 31:53 Quarterback Diego Pavia 34:33 Misfits And Five Stars 35:48 EOPC

Go to Go to https://www.learningleader.com/becoming to see the pre-order bonuses for The Price of Becoming This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Scott Galloway is the New York Times bestselling author of books including The Four , The Algebra of Happiness , Post Corona , Adrift , and The Algebra of Wealth . Notes: Key Learnings Routine speeds up time, novelty slows it down. If you want life to go fast, just spend it alone and have a routine and never bust out of that routine. What makes life interesting is diversity in people, because people are complicated, and relationships are complicated. Lean into your emotions to slow time down. If you see something that moves you, stop, think about it, ask yourself why it moves you, and try to cement that moment in your brain. Otherwise, you're not sleepwalking through life; you're sleep sprinting. "The greatest wasted resource in history is good intentions that don't get articulated." No matter how famous someone is, they love affirmation as much as anybody else. Good thoughts that don't get articulated are wasted. Absorb when you're upset and lean into emotions, good and bad. This sort of marks the day and slows things down. Otherwise, if you get up every morning, do the same thing, eat the same thing, have the same relationship, the week's just gonna go really fast. Reverse engineer your success to things that aren't your fault. What are the things that played a role in your success that you had no control over? Your luck, your good fortune. For Scott: big government, assisted lunch, Pell Grants, University of California, technology financed by middle-class taxpayers, DARPA, the internet, deep pools of capital, and acceptance of failure. His mom told him he had value every day. Scott's mom, every day, implicitly and explicitly, told him and communicated to him that he had value. That builds a basic confidence that manifests in different ways: the confidence to fail, approach strangers, believe you're worthy of love, that you'll add value to a company, and that you can ask for tens of millions of dollars from someone. When good things happened, he used to call his mom. Whether it was getting a bonus at Morgan Stanley or striking up a conversation with a woman at Starbucks and getting her number, Scott used to call his mom. Your parents can bask in your victory, and you can brag to your parents, and it's okay. If there's no one there with you, it's like it didn't happen. Scott travels for business and stays at really nice hotels, and inevitably gets upgraded to the penthouse or the George V in Paris when he's alone. But if there's no one there with you, it's like it didn't happen. Celebrate victories, tell people how much they mean to you. You have to call your friends, celebrate their victories, celebrate your own, and tell people how much they mean to you. Every day, no matter what, tell your kids you're proud of them and love them. No matter how much Scott's kids piss him off, at some point, he finds a way to say, "I'm proud of you, and I love you immensely. You know that, right?" He hopes they have that same kind of base or pillar of confidence he had his whole life. Having someone tell you they believe in you every day works. You don't have to be a baller or successful. Just having someone in your life and every day telling them they mean a lot to you, they can't help but not believe you after a while. Being a leader isn't about being the smartest person in the room. Scott used to think being a leader was being the smartest person in the room, and he had trouble, especially with other men, thinking if he acknowledged someone else was doing a good job, somehow that made him less impressive. You have so much currency as a founder or manager. If you're in a management or leadership role, much less a founder, you have so much currency to pull someone into a conference room and say, "You were outstanding in that meeting" or "I just read this, and I love this paragraph. God, where did you come up with this idea?" You literally see these people just light up. "If you're thinking it, say it." The instant you're thinking something positive about somebody, just tell them, text them, call them. Don't wait. We have a tendency to think other people are telepathic, that they must sense we think they're wonderful. No, they don't sense it. Articulate it. When you're on your deathbed, you're not gonna think "I gave too much praise at work and told too many people how much they meant to me." Young people need watering. If you don't give young people feedback and praise when they deserve it, it's like having a ton of capital and not spending it. Especially with young people, they need watering. Feedback is incredible compensation. Whenever someone does something good, Scott tries to remind himself via email. Then, when he does their review at the end of the year, it's like, " Wow, this dude is paying attention. That is a form of compensation. Give thoughtful reviews that show you understand them. Tell them what they need to develop to get to the next level. Pay for the courses they need. They're a single mom who needs flexibility and wants to make more money. That's compensation. "Become a clip machine." Certain people are clip machines: James Clear, Morgan Housel, Kat Cole, Scott Galloway. These are people who communicate ideas in ways that are instantly shareable and memorable. For leaders, becoming an effective communicator isn't optional anymore. You need to be able to inspire and move people. The ability to write well is the stem of storytelling. It forces you to manage your thoughts and think things through. It's difficult to be a great storyteller if you can't write at a competent level. Rank yourself across every medium and go deep on one. Look at every medium (texting, LinkedIn, short form video, TikTok, long form writing, speaking), rank yourself, listen to yourself, decide what your specialty is, and then go very deep into one. Figure out your medium and commit to being in the top 1%. Challenge yourself to be in the top 10% within a year, the top 1% within three years. Identify which medium you have skills in, then challenge yourself. If you're in the top 6,000 podcasts out of 600,000 that put out content every week, you're in the top 1%. "Social media may make you want to shower after you use it, but it's frightening how powerful it is." In terms of economic power and influence, it's frightening how powerful social media is right now. If you're a young person and you want to be influential or economically secure, you need to master it. Storytelling is the enduring skill to give your kids. Scott's core competence is storytelling. His superpower is attracting and retaining people who help leverage his skills. The most radical act in a capitalist society is not participation. Scott started Resist and Unsubscribe because action absorbs anxiety. He was sick of being virtuous and courageous on a keyboard or a mic and wanted to do something. "Ready, fire, fucking aim on this thing called life." Scott wants to dance like no one is watching. He's gonna be dead soon, and it's all going really fast. He doesn't want to look back and think about losing sponsors or what people thought was stupid. He wants to think, "Right on, I tried to do something." He wants to be that guy who was unafraid, who showed up with a carpool to try and make a difference. Your spending or lack thereof is a weapon hiding in plain sight. The government most quickly responded six years ago during COVID, not because tens of thousands of people were dying, but because the GDP crashed 31%. The president backs away from plans when the bond market or stock market goes down. Even a gnat on an elephant matters. Even if it's just a gnat on an elephant, enough gnats will take down an elephant. If you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally, you have an obligation to speak out. Sam Harris has this great saying: if you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally, then you have an obligation to speak out and speak your mind, because most people don't have that luxury. Do what makes you feel good about yourself. It's not easy being mediocre-looking; it takes real effort. Scott grew up very skinny with bad acne and thinks maybe he's a little too focused or self-conscious about his looks. America is ageist, and looks matter. New York is the ultimate tip of the spear for a capitalist society, and it's optimized for two people: hot women and rich guys. For everyone else, it's a soul-crushing experience. We can talk about the way the world should be and the way the world is. That's the way the world is. Start working out. Scott coaches young men: start working out. It's good for your head. It shows women and employers you're in shape, not just because it looks good (which it does), but because it reflects how you show up, that you have discipline, that you can commit to something. The rule of threes puts you in the top 5% of attractiveness. If you work out three times a week or more, if you spend at least 30 hours a week working outside of the house, and put yourself in the company of strangers (church group, nonprofits, sports league), just by doing those three things, you put yourself in the top 5% of attractiveness of young males. Anyone who's had great yeses has had a shit ton of no's. If you can be in the top 5% and learn how to mourn and move on from rejection, at some point, you'll be voluntarily celibate, which is awesome. There were hundreds of no's for you to get to a top podcast. You get used to no. No one has the right to a living or to reproduce. If you want to score above your class economically or romantically, get out a big spoon and get ready to eat shit. It's what everyone of us has done. "I'm constantly worried about my boys now." Scott didn't worry about his kids when they were little unless they were sick - they were safe and home. Now he's worried about them all the time: are they doing okay at school? Is the quiet one okay? His champagne toast moment would be celebrating his son's first year of college going well - having fun, a good friend group, a couple of dates, football games, and gearing up for sophomore year. Reflection Questions What things played a role in your success that you had no control over? Your luck, your good fortune. How does reverse engineering to those things change your perspective? Who in your life needs to hear that you're proud of them and that they mean a lot to you? When's the last time you actually said it? Rank yourself across every medium you participate in (texting, LinkedIn, video, writing, speaking). What's your specialty? Are you willing to commit to being in the top 1% of that medium within three years? More Learning #578: Scott Galloway - The Algebra of Wealth #492: Scott Galloway - Finding What You're Good At #396: Scott Galloway - Turning Crisis Into Opportunity Podcast Chapters 00:00 Preorder my new book ! 02:45 Meet Scott Galloway 04:13 Resilience To Criticism 05:43 Slowing Time With Novelty 08:43 Scott's Mom Building Confidence 14:52 Use Praise As a Leadership Currency 24:27 Becoming A Great Storyteller 31:06 Resist And Unsubscribe Origins 35:35 What Comes Next 37:13 Facing Both Backlash and Support 39:45 Living Unafraid 41:23 Why Sell Prof G? 42:37 Building Enterprise Value 46:46 The Openness of Cosmetic Surgery 48:47 The World's View on the Physical 50:42 Rule of Threes for Men 53:11 Scott's Champagne Toast 56:52 The Belief of Reasonable Politics 58:10 Where to Find Scott Online 01:02:14 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Kat Cole is the CEO of AG1 (formerly Athletic Greens) and a renowned business leader known for a meteoric rise from Hooters waitress to Fortune 40 Under 40 executive. As former President/COO of Focus Brands (Cinnabon), she specializes in scaling global brands. Her career is defined by driving billions in sales, strategic innovation, and a strong, people-first leadership style. Key Learnings You can't market your way out of a bad product. AG1 has 3x'd the business in four years while being in only one channel (direct to consumer) for 15 years. 80% of retail is in brick and mortar, so they were doing that volume in less than 20% of where transactions happen. That only works when customers love the product, keep buying it for years, and tell their friends. Scale comes from trusted recommendations, not marketing spend. Real volume comes from people telling their friends, recommending it to their teams and companies. That's where real scale and sustainable growth comes from. Two questions guide every career decision. Is my work done here? Can someone else do what the company needs better than I can? If the answer to either is yes, that guides you toward pushing for change in your role, the way you show up, or finding the next opportunity. Sometimes the best move is the lesser-known role. Kat could have stayed running big franchise brands everyone knew (Cinnabon, Auntie Anne's), but becoming COO of the parent company, Focus Brands, was a bigger, more complex role. Lesser known, smaller team, bigger stretch, more learning. That bridged her into consumer packaged goods and got her ready for AG1. Consider financial needs, learning, and ego separately. Between financial needs, your ability to learn or contribute, and your ego or optics, there are questions you can ask yourself about a particular moment or opportunity that will help you be sharper in what you actually want versus what just looks like what's best next on the surface. The founder heard her on podcasts and asked for an introduction. AG1's founder heard Kat on a couple of podcasts, knew Sahil Bloom, and asked Sahil to make the intro. She just happened to be taking time off and had been a customer for two years. "You're interviewing for your next job every day." Whatever you do now, that choice of time, that tone of voice, that decision, how you show up or don't, creates an impact that leads to an experience and people's actions and then results. Eventually, it leads to the next thing. Showing kindness in the airport matters. A caring note to someone struggling, a teacher or stranger saying, "I see something in you," a compliment when someone's in a dark place. It helps people out of darkness. Or opportunistically, being the one who sent the email or made the ask means you're the one who got the opportunity. Don't burn bridges even when you feel wronged. When Kat was an executive at Hooters at 26, peers in their 50s and 60s would say things in meetings that weren't kind or appropriate. She would write letters expressing how it made her feel, but never sent them. She processed, reflected, and showed up professionally. Years later, those same people became advocates, partners, and references. Four key mindsets for senior leaders. Humility, curiosity, courage, and confidence. By the time candidates get to Kat, they've been vetted on technical capability. She spends time validating those four characteristics because leadership and style trickle far into the organization. Ask "if not for" questions to reveal humility. When someone tells you how they stood tall in tough moments, ask what enabled them to do those great things. They'll say, "I had access to this data, this team, this technical leader." Then ask: "If those people did not exist, if that resource did not exist, how would you have navigated that?" You peel back layers and see if they have the humility to acknowledge their success was due to critical factors. The best candidates do the job in the interview. When someone says, "If we're doing this, we'll absolutely need this person in this specific role," or they have people in mind they're bringing with them, that's a good sign. Hiring leaders who have people who are loyal to them shows something real. In reference checks, ask, "What does this person need to be successful?" It's a positive framing to get at what someone might lack or require around them to be effective. Help people answer "how should I think about this?" In a fully remote company, you have less context and fewer vibes. When you send a note about ending a product line or launching something you said you'd never launch, people's subconscious internal war is "how should I think about this?" Leaders should start communications with "here's how I think about this" or "here's how we should think about this." Sometimes the answer is to shut up and speak last. As teams get stronger, there's more weight on the few things the CEO says. Leave space for other leaders to lead. Kat removed herself from some meetings entirely because she has such great leaders and a strong culture. Pay attention to themes in criticism, not individual attacks. When competitors attack you, ask: Are there patterns? Is there something reflective of industry questions? Sometimes criticisms point to things you already do well but aren't communicating well enough. Comparison ads work short-term but don't build credibility long-term. Challenger brands use the playbook of "we're like the leader, but better/cheaper." Consumers see through it. People tell AG1, "I saw an ad comparing their product to yours, and they're clearly saying you're the leader." The rage bait is brief; the truth is long. Algorithms reward dopamine hits and rage bait. Something untrue or negatively spun can quickly become widely seen because the critique is brief and witty, but the explanation and truth are long. AG1 has more human trials on a single SKU than any other multi-ingredient product ever in the space, but that's harder to say in a sound bite. Don't criticize a car for not taking you to the moon. Someone criticized one of AG1's products for not doing something the product isn't supposed to do. When addressing criticism, clarify what the product is actually designed to do. Her husband will be the fourth person ever to row across three oceans. He's already rowed the Atlantic (set the US record as a pair) and the Caribbean. Now he's training for the Pacific. If he completes it, he'll be only the fourth person to have ever done it in the world. It's about who you become while striving for the big thing. After her husband got rescued in the Caribbean, he questioned why he was doing this with two kids. But this pursuit is who he is, what drives him, it's inspiring for the kids, and it makes him a better person when he's home. It's about the journey and who you do it with. More Learning 476: Kat Cole - Raise Your Hand, Raise Your Voice 078: Kat Cole - Courage, Confidence, Curiosity, and Humility Reflection Questions Is your work done where you are? Can someone else do what the company needs better than you can? When interviewing someone, ask what enabled them to succeed in a tough moment. Then ask: if that team or resource didn't exist, how would you have done it differently? What communication this week needs context? Start with: here's what this means, what it's not about, and how we should think about it. Audio Timestamps 00:18 Meet Kat Cole 02:42 AG1's Growth Story: $160M to $500M+ 03:28 Product-Led Growth Wins 05:57 Kat on Writing and Reflection 07:39 Two Questions for Every Career Move 12:25 How Kat Joined AG1 16:09 You're Always Interviewing 18:47 Neutralizing Opposition at Hooters 24:19 Hiring Great Leaders 27:43 Inside Executive Interviews 31:56 Reference Checks That Reveal Truth 32:52 CEO as the Storyteller 34:16 "How Should I Think About This?" 35:46 Speak Last, Empower Leaders 37:41 Handling Public Criticism 39:59 Separating Signal from Noise 44:49 Staying Focused Through Criticism 48:00 Champagne Question: Family First 48:45 Rowing Three Oceans 51:37 Who You Become on the Journey 56:14 EOPC

www.LearningLeader.com The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Jamie Siminoff is the founder of Ring, which he sold to Amazon for over a billion dollars. He's an inventor and builder who couldn't hear his doorbell while working in his garage, so he built a video doorbell. When his wife said it made her feel safer, he realized technology had changed, and home security needed a complete reinvention. Ring became the world's largest home security company with a mission to make neighborhoods safer. Key Learnings Jeff Bezos reads and writes his own stuff. When Jamie asked Jeff to write something for the book's back cover, Jeff actually read it and wanted his own curated quote that was from him. Jeff loves entrepreneurs, so they kept him out of negotiations. After the Whole Foods deal, Amazon learned to keep Jeff out of negotiations because he finds it tough to negotiate hard with someone he respects. Hardware companies can die while growing fast. Ring grew from $3M to $30M to $174M to $480M, which sounds amazing. But to go from $170M to $480M, you're buying hundreds of millions of dollars of product when you're selling less than that. If sales growth slows, you're basically going out of business. Going from $480M to over a billion in revenue was like being on a motorcycle at 200 miles an hour. If a leaf falls down and hits you, you're dead. At Amazon, when Ring said, "We need another billion dollars to order stuff for next year," Amazon said, "Okay, what else do you want?" There are different types of entrepreneurs. Jamie is an inventor/entrepreneur. There are business entrepreneurs who are maniacal business people we've never heard of that have just crushed it. Jamie is maniacal on product and brings invention into how they run the company. Hire marathon runners. Marathons are the dumbest thing any human could ever do. Even if you win, no one cares. Jamie finished the Boston Marathon in 22,000th place and he's so proud of himself. You want people that don't care about external validation; they just care about getting the mission done. AI has democratized all information. With AI making it so you don't even need to know C++ programming anymore, fill your business with passionate people who care about the mission and they'll crush anything. When building your team, start with the mission. Jamie tells people, "Our mission is to make neighborhoods safer. Do you want to work on making neighborhoods safer? Because if you don't, you're going to be miserable here. You're going to hear it every day, and you're going to roll your eyes." Referrals work because people don't want to let you down. The best hires are when someone's referred by someone (uncle, friend, whatever) because they feel guilty. They don't want to let the person who referred them down. Find an infinite truth to work on. Amazon's core principles are infinite: Will customers always want lower price, more selection, and faster delivery? Yes. If you deliver in 30 minutes, they'll want it in 10 minutes. Making neighborhoods safer is an infinite thing to work on. Your wife saying one thing can change everything. Jamie built a video doorbell so he could hear the door from his garage. His wife said, "It makes me feel safer at home." That's when he realized technology had changed and home security needed a whole new approach. The hard part is bringing the infinite down to the tactical. When you have an infinite mission, you can get overwhelmed trying to solve it all at once. You have to figure out what to do every single day to work toward that infinite goal. Shark Tank was a disaster that turned into everything. Jamie went on Shark Tank desperately needing money. He got zero offers and cried in his car after. But when it aired, the boost in sales gave them cash to hire people and build Ring, which started the clock on their success. Sometimes you can't stop because you're in too deep. After Shark Tank bombed, Jamie couldn't back out. He'd already ordered too many products and owed too much money. He'd be personally bankrupt if he stopped. People think he's tough for keeping going, but he didn't have a choice. Being naive is a superpower. Great inventions are things people say can't happen because if they could happen, they'd already be out there. You have to be naive enough to say "I think I can do this" or "I don't even know that I can't." People said you couldn't build a battery-operated camera on WiFi. Jamie had never built anything before, so what did he know? They just went out and tried to put some parts together that seemed like they would work. Knowing too much gets in the way of doing the work. If you're thinking and analyzing the whole world, that's time you're not inventing, building, making calls. When are you actually doing the work? The Ring.com domain negotiation was survival. The owner originally wanted $750K for the domain. Jamie had $178K in the bank on the day he was supposed to pay. He called and said "My board said I can't do the deal, but they approved $175K today and $1M total over two years." The guy hung up, called back, and said fine. There was no board, it was just Jamie. The stress internalized and destroyed him. Jamie wasn't sleeping and was super stressed. There are different types of entrepreneurs: some can handle that stress and sleep like a baby. Jamie internalized it, and it affected him terribly. Be transparent at home. Jamie's son was six years old and knew where the business was. His kindergarten teacher would say, "I hear the business isn't going well." They just had open, adult conversations about everything. Work-life integration, not balance. Jamie integrated work, life, and family together. His son came with him to pick up the first DoorBot in China. Oliver has been to 40 countries and almost every state because he traveled to every meeting. Bring your kid to the meeting. People asked, "How do you bring your kid to a meeting?" Jamie said, "Who do you think they're gonna remember more?" We're always scared to be different. Follow your passion, but make money when you need to. It's hard to see anyone who's achieved greatness who didn't do what they loved. But there are times you have to work your ass off to make money (Jamie was a bellhop and valet parking cars). When you set out to do something, do something you care about. If you fail trying to make money, that really sucks. If you fail trying to do something you love, at least you tried to do something you love. If Ring fails, they try to make neighborhoods safer. That's noble. You can tell who's successful by how fast they respond. It's a weird flip-flop of what it should be. You'd think a successful person should respond in a month, but the people running at the highest levels are actually very efficient. There's something about it. First principles thinking eliminates recurring meetings. There's no way every single Monday at 9 AM you have something important to talk about. The world can't exist like that. Meet when you need to do something, not on some cadence. Hire the best and let them work. Get the best quarterback, best kicker, best coach. Let them work together, let them practice, have the plays. You don't need to get together every day to talk about how you're feeling. No standing meetings, zero recurring one-on-ones. Jamie doesn't have a standing meeting with his team in any cadence. He talks to people all day long, all night long, Sundays, but it's event-based. "We have to get sales up on this, where are the issues?" If you're not doing your job, we'll fire you. Service to others is the best thing you can do. A year from now, Jamie would be celebrating something on the charitable side. Probably something with their work in South Central LA with LAPD, or at their 75-acre farm in Missouri helping the town that's been impacted by opioids and industrial farming. More Learning #191: Robert Herjavec: (Shark Tank Investor) - You Don't Have to Be a Shark to Be Effective #626: Rob Kimbel - The Power of Grit and Generosity #632: Nick Huber - The Sweaty Start Up Reflection Questions What's a problem you could pursue for decades without exhausting its potential? What mission has no endpoint, only continuous improvement? Work-life integration. What are you keeping separate that might be better together? Where could you stop trying to "balance" and instead integrate? Audio Timestamps 02:19 Bezos' Endorsement for Jamie 03:30 Selling Ring to Amazon 05:04 Hypergrowth Cash Crunch 07:54 Inventor vs Business Operator 09:34 Hiring Marathoners 11:20 Interviewing and Firing Fast 13:25 Mission Origin and Big Vision 15:40 Infinite Truth and Focus 17:06 Getting on Shark Tank 19:32 Live Demo and Rejection 23:13 The Aftermath and Momentum from Shark Tank 24:57 Naivete as Superpower 27:00 Doers Beat Planners 27:33 Winning Ring.com Deal 30:17 Stress and Family Support 31:33 Work-Life Integration 33:26 Passion Versus Practicality 36:08 Scaling Authentic Culture 37:26 Frontline Leadership Style 42:15 Team DNA & No Standing Meetings 45:19 Service and Jamie's Farm Mission 47:39 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader The Learning Leader Show Key Learnings Go out and dent the universe. Erin's parents didn't put pressure on her to get perfect grades or go to Harvard; they wanted her to use her privilege and beautiful upbringing to make the world a better place. Youngest child syndrome makes you quick. Being the youngest of six, Erin learned to speak very quickly to get her thoughts in at the dinner table, and she was given unsolicited advice her whole childhood (which is why she loves giving advice now). Your siblings' sole job is to keep you grounded. Erin's parents are proud and supportive, but her siblings roast her and beat her down (all in good fun) to keep her as humble as possible. Success is attributed to a sense of humor. Erin gave career advice that was funny, and nobody had ever really seen that before. You don't get that unless you're the slightly bullied youngest of six kids your entire life. Rejection rage is a choice. At a Women in Film networking event, the head of the organization paused Erin's documentary trailer 30 seconds in and said, "You need to be more realistic." Erin went on to get a Pulitzer fellowship and premiered a feature documentary at 23 with international distribution. When you get a rejection, you can either let it beat you down or say, "I'm going to show them." "Tell me about yourself" is the world's worst interview question. It's lazy, not specific, and hard for the interviewee to truncate their entire life into 90 seconds. Use the past-present-future template: 1-2 sentences about your past, 1-2 about your present role, then future (where the interviewer's ears perk up), connecting to why you're applying for this specific role. Specificity is the magic word. When sending cold emails, the chances of getting a good response dramatically increase if you're specific: specific praise, specific question. Instead of "Can I pick your brain over coffee?" say, "I watched your video about X, and when you said Y, it piqued my curiosity." Higher quality questions get higher quality answers. This isn't just for podcasts or job interviews; it's a life skill. Good professional communication is like chess, not checkers. Most people just play checkers (you said this to me, I'm going to say this to you), but chess is thinking 10 steps ahead about what your end goal is and how this person falls along the path to that goal. Don't ask for a raise; ask for an adjustment to your compensation. Your job is transactional (you do work, they pay you). When you accepted your salary, you were doing X, Y, Z. Now you're doing X, Y, Z plus A, B, C. It's no longer an equal partnership, so you need an adjustment. It's not personal, it's just professional. Know your audience and your leverage. Emotional regulation is powerful communication. If we just act impulsively and say what's on our mind all the time, it doesn't actually get you where you want to go. Always keep your desired outcome in mind. It's about checkmate. Don't just react, think about what the end goal is and how this conversation gets you there. Humanize people, don't make them wrong. That egotistical senior VP is probably actually really insecure about where they are in their career and wakes up every morning not knowing what they're doing. Put your ego to the side. Being a great communicator requires taking a break from thinking about yourself and thinking about what the other person's life is like and what their goals are. Align your goals with their goals. Think about how you can create that authentic relationship by figuring out how your goals align with what they're trying to accomplish. Shut up and listen. We do a little bit too much talking when we're trying to negotiate or strategize. It can be very beneficial to embrace the silence and practice active listening. Curiosity is an amazing way to show love. Being genuinely curious about a person makes them like you, and it becomes more natural the more you do it. Compliments have to be genuine and specific. People are way better at sniffing out fake compliments than you realize. If you can't find one thing you truly admire about someone, don't say anything. Don't make it transactional. When people ask, "How do I not make it feel like I'm using them?" Erin says, "Well, don't use them. Just be genuine." The most loving thing you can do is respect people's time. Meeting bloat has gotten really bad since the pandemic, and a lot of time is disrespected in meetings across the world. Maybe don't have the meeting. A lot of meetings are completely unnecessary, or at least the way they're set up, the people invited, or the way they're run are really inefficient. Only invite crucial people. Make sure that only the people who absolutely need to be there are invited to the meeting. Always have an agenda. At the beginning of every meeting, say "Here are the three things we're going to cover today, and here's the goal of this meeting." Put it in the calendar link with bullet points. Don't have brainstorming meetings. Have meetings with very tangible goals at the end, state them up front, and make sure that goal has been achieved by the end. Email subject lines are underutilized. Erin's dad's company would put tags like "request," "informational," or "command" on subject lines so you knew exactly what type of email it was and what was expected. The exercise of making a five-year plan changes your brain. Erin doesn't believe in sticking to a five-year plan, but the exercise of thinking about the future creates new neural pathways that change the way you think about yourself and your life. A happy life is an intentional life. The vast majority of people float through life and act very reactionary. Sitting down and thinking about what you actually want in five years is powerful self-care. Sit down with your partner and do this together. Before you get married, make five-year plans together. They might look really different (which is revealing) or really similar which doubles down on alignment. Create multiple five-year plans if you're young. If you don't know which path you're going to take, create five different scenarios for yourself and see which one energizes you most. Financial freedom is a goal worth stating. Erin wants to be financially free in the next five years, which allows her to pursue mission-driven work on her own terms. You're just another human trying to figure it out. Even though Erin wrote the book on workplace communication, she's still winging it every day just like everybody else. Combat the knowledge curse by staying connected to real people. When you're an expert in something, it's hard to imagine not being an expert. Erin moved back to Maryland suburbs to experience people working normal corporate jobs, DMs with people daily about their experiences, and gets on free calls just to listen. The data in newsletters tells a different story than people's actual experiences, so she stays grounded by hearing real anecdotes from IT workers in North Carolina or nurses in Kentucky. Set goals really high. Erin wants her startup to help 500,000 job seekers in a year, which is ambitious, but she doesn't care if she fails as long as she tries to reach it. More Learning #507 - Jesse Cole: How to Build Your Idea Muscle #344 - Jesse Cole: How to Create "You Wouldn't Believe" Moments #365 - James Altucher: How to Become An Idea Machine Reflection Questions Good communication is chess, not checkers. Think about a difficult conversation you need to have this week. Instead of just reacting to what they say, what's your desired outcome? What would "checkmate" look like, and how can you think 10 steps ahead to get there? Who in your life keeps you humble If no one does, how might you be losing perspective on yourself? What would it look like to invite that kind of honest feedback into your life? Erin recommends making a five-year plan, not to stick to it, but because the exercise creates new neural pathways. When's the last time you sat down and intentionally thought about what you want your life to look like in five years? What's stopping you from doing that this week?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My Guest: Jesse Cole is the owner of the Savannah Bananas. He went $1.8 million in debt, slept on an air mattress, and built a business that is now valued at over a billion dollars. I spent half a day with Jesse in Savannah watching practice, and Jesse gave me a personal tour of their entire operation. It was incredible. Notes: Fans First - The sign is on every locker. And leading out to the field, "Tonight is someone's first time seeing our show." Obsessed/Focused - Banana Ball/Serving people is his life. We didn't talk about hobbies, TV shows, or anything other than what they're doing now and in the future. He's obsessed with what he does and super focused. Transparent - Jesse just released their full P&L as a private company: revenue, expenses, player salaries, everything. Most businesses guard this religiously. He's completely transparent. I asked why, and he said, "Fans first. They deserve to know everything." Reps - We went to the field to watch practice. It looked just like a game. Players were dancing all the time. And every single rep they practiced as a trick play (behind the back, through the legs, etc.). They never play normal baseball. You wonder how they are so good on gameday at doing a backflip while catching a fly ball. Because they practice it thousands of times without fans so that when they're there, they put on a great show. Hiring – "Love your people more than you love your customer." 12,000 people on the waitlist to work for the Bananas. When you hire, have them do a "fans first" essay. Then they write a future essay. Always Be Caring, Different, Enthusiastic, Fun, Growing, & Hungry Fans First: The Counter-Intuitive Decision - Jesse sacrificed $6 million in ticket revenue after a system messed things up for fans. Merch – 787,000 fans purchased merchandise in 2025, totaling 1.96 million total items. That means the average person is purchasing ~2.5 items at checkout, with 80% of total sales taking place in person. 621,000 at live shows versus 166,000 online. It's a $50m business! TV: The Distribution Strategy - Giving Away Value - Jesse insisted on free YouTube streaming even when ESPN wanted exclusivity. Jesse is building a zero-profit secondary ticket market. He's literally giving away things other sports properties would monetize. So, even with all of the team's games still airing for free on YouTube, the Bananas averaged 500,000 viewers on ESPN, The CW, and Roku. The team's most-watched broadcast was a July 4th game at Fenway Park, which averaged 837,000 viewers on ESPN, making it the holiday weekend's most-watched primetime sports broadcast. TV networks want exclusivity, but you demand that the games still be broadcast for free on YouTube (in addition to whatever channel they are on) Social Media - The Bananas added 12.7 million new social media followers in 2025 alone. That pushes their total social media following across all channels north of 35 million... Roughly 2x more followers than MLB's most popular team, the Yankees, at 18 million. You have to believe something before you achieve something. Six years ago, Jesse said, "We're gonna sell out Fenway Park," and his team looked at him like he was crazy (they were a college summer baseball team, not even doing tours yet). You have to get through the messy to get to the great. Their first world tour was brutal: the sound was terrible, the show wasn't great, the game finished in the seventh inning because they didn't have a rule to make it go nine innings. See what's best for the guest, not what's best for the business. Walt Disney was the first to go into full-length animation, color, sound, and with Disneyland, he focused on one entrance to control the experience, custom rides, and invested in a castle and landscaping, which made no money. Go where others won't go. Sam Walton went to small towns, and no one paid attention to him for the first five to ten years. It's somebody's first time every night. Fans wait three years on a waitlist to come to a game, so Jesse doesn't care if you're having a bad day. That's their first time. Control the entire experience. Walt learned he couldn't control the experience when people watched his movies at a theater (it could be dirty, and people might not be nice), so he built Disneyland. Who do we work for? Fans. Jesse opened the books completely (numbers, player salary, merch sales, everything) because they have a responsibility and accountability to their fans. We have to feel our mistakes. When they sent a wrong email to 44,000 fans instead of 4,000, it cost them $6 million to take care of those fans with tickets (more than the company brought in their first five years). We need to have bigger failures. If we're not trying things big enough, we won't have bigger failures and mistakes that cost us a lot more in the future. Turn mistakes into moments. After the $6 million email mistake, Jesse set up a Zoom call with all 44,000 people, had everyone turn their cameras on, and apologized while looking at every single person. Build something you wish existed for yourself. Jesse played baseball until he couldn't anymore. He put so much pressure on himself that it wasn't fun anymore, and he was told he wasn't good enough. Design every second of the first-day experience. When players showed up, they went to a parking lot with a DJ at 8:30 AM. Three buses arrived with balloons, hundreds of people lined the streets cheering, Man-nanas served munchkins on silver platters, a custom hype video played, the host introduced from the roof, and fireworks went off. Every player has been told they're not good enough. All Bananas players have been drafted or been top college players, and at some point, they've all been rejected, cut, told to hang it up. Obsession is awesome. If you can find something you're obsessed with, so few people in the world get to have that. Watch the best of the best obsess over details. Derek Hough (one of the greatest dancers) wasn't just focusing on the dance; he was producing while dancing, telling the camera crew exactly where to come, when to hit him, and where he would wink. No one goes home excited about normal. No one says, "That restaurant was really normal, the waiter served it the same way, the food was pretty normal, the parking lot was normal." Whatever's normal, do the exact opposite. Normal gets normal results. There's a lot of normal in the world, but not a lot of extraordinary. Put yourself in the customer's shoes and eliminate friction. Where's the game tonight? On Amazon, Peacock, CBS, NBC? Jesse threw away millions to keep all games free on YouTube because that's a friction point. Your fans will reward you. The Bananas sold over 1.9 million merch items last year because they built something people are proud of and want to wear. If people don't want to wear your merch, you haven't made them feel something yet. One fan gets a new Bananas tattoo every year (he's got six logos on his leg now). Invest everything in the experience, spend zero on traditional marketing. Make the experience so good that fans will share with everyone that this is something they haven't experienced before. Social media growth came from trying and stumbling into learning. In 2016, an intern said he could create videos; they did a lip sync to "Can't Stop the Feeling" by Justin Timberlake. It wasn't even well-produced, but they tried. Give energy back because of how good it feels. A woman came up to Jesse on a cruise and said she was there because he gave her a hug at a Sacramento game the day after her sister died. She came on the cruise to give him a hug back. Do what gives you energy. Jesse's entire day is filled with things that give him energy: being with people, rehearsing shows, banana ball youth meetings, broadcast team, and talented writers. Have people who love to execute. You do what gives you energy and have them execute at a high level. Be very involved at the beginning (get the idea and vision right) and at the end (make adjustments).

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Go to www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: Tom Hardin was known as "Tipper X" during Operation Perfect Hedge, the largest insider trading investigation in history. After making four illegal trades based on inside information, the FBI approached him on a Manhattan street corner and convinced him to wear a wire over 40 times, helping build 20 of the 81 cases. Key Learnings Ambiguity is where ethical lines blur. Tom's boss said, "Do whatever it takes," after the hedge fund lost money, and as a junior employee, Tom didn't ask clarifying questions. The undiscussable becomes undiscussable. Leaders give ambiguous messages, then pretend they weren't ambiguous, employees get confused and don't question the boss, and you end up with a culture of silence. Making decisions in isolation is dangerous. The information came to Tom and he didn't talk to his boss or his wife (who probably would've slapped him around for crossing ethical lines). Psychological safety requires muscle memory. You have to practice saying "I'm just going to ask some clarifying questions here" when your boss gives ambiguous orders. Bad decisions aren't mistakes. Mistakes are made without intent, but bad decisions are made with intent. Tom told himself for years he made "mistakes," but on a drive home from speaking at a keynote, he realized: "There's no way I made mistakes. I made bad decisions." Never say never. Tom argues you're more susceptible to falling down your own slippery slope when you think "that would never be me." 80% of employees can be swayed either way. 10% are morally incorruptible, 10% are a compliance nightmare, and 80% can be influenced by the culture around them. Tone at the top means nothing. Company culture isn't the tone at the top or glossy shareholder letters; it's the behaviors employees believe will be rewarded or put them ahead. Reward character, not just results. You can't just focus on short-term performance and dollar goals without understanding how the business was made and what was behind the performance. The question isn't "what?" but "how?" If you're just focused on the numbers and not on how you got there, you have the opportunity to end up in a slippery slope situation. Celebrate people who live your values. Companies that spend millions on trips for people who live out shared values (not financial performance) are putting their money where their mouth is. Leaders must share their own ethical dilemmas. We've all been in situations where we could go left or right, and sharing how you worked through those moments makes you more endearing and a better leader. Keep a rationalization journal. When Tom and his wife have big decisions (or even little things), he writes them down in a rationalization journal and reflects on them once a month. He's still susceptible to going down another slippery slope, so checking himself on those passing thoughts improves his character over time. It's not what you say, it's what you do. Just like kids see what parents do (not what they say), employees see what behaviors leaders actually reward. $46,000 cost him $23 million. A business school professor calculated Tom would've made $23 million if he'd stayed on the hedge fund path, but he made $46,000 on the four illegal trades before getting caught. His wife was his rock. 85% of marriages end when something like this happens, and she had every right to leave. They just got married, no kids yet. But she stayed. When Tom interviewed her for the book 20 years later, she said, "All I remember is you accepted responsibility immediately. You didn't make up excuses." Running pulled him out of a shame spiral. Tom got obese as a stay-at-home dad. His wife signed him up for a 5K race (and beat him while pushing a jogging stroller). Just crossing that finish line lit a fire. He ended up running a 100-mile race. Doing hard things teaches you that you can do hard things. When Tom had to start a speaking business because they were running out of money, he said, "I can do this" because he'd already put his body through ultramarathons. No challenge is insurmountable. He ended up with something better. It's not about status or money anymore; it's about who he is with his family and his relationships now. Windshield mentality, not rearview mirror. Tom can't change the past, but he can look forward instead of backward. A lot of people in their twenties do stupid stuff (maybe not to this degree), but now, in his forties, he can learn from it. Why not embrace it rather than try to scrub it off the internet? Eulogy virtues versus resume virtues. In his twenties, Tom only thought about resume virtues (how much money, the next job, the next stepping stone) and never about eulogy virtues (what people will say about his character when it's all over). What will people say at your eulogy? Will they still be talking about those four trades, or will they talk about who you became after? More Learning #226 - Steve Wojciechowski: How to Win Every Day #281 - George Raveling: Wisdom from MLK Jr to Michael Jordan #637 - Tom Ryan: Chosen Suffering: Become Elite in Life & Leadership Reflection Questions Tom's boss gave him an ambiguous message ("do whatever it takes"), and as a junior employee, he didn't ask clarifying questions. Think about the last ambiguous instruction you received from leadership. Did you ask clarifying questions, or did you fill in the blanks yourself? What's stopping you from creating psychological safety to ask next time? Tom argues that 80% of employees can be swayed either way by culture. Look at your organization right now. What behaviors are actually being rewarded? If someone asked your team "what gets you ahead here?" what would they honestly say? Tom asks: "Will people be talking about the resume virtues (money, titles, achievements) or the eulogy virtues (character, relationships, who you were) when you're gone?" What's one eulogy virtue you need to start prioritizing today, even if it means slowing down on resume building?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: PJ Fleck is the head football coach at the University of Minnesota. Before that, he transformed Western Michigan from one win to 13 wins and a Cotton Bowl appearance. Before his coaching days, PJ was a stud receiver at Northern Illinois and was a guy I played against in college. Coach Fleck has built one of college football's most distinctive culture-driven programs. You'll hear why he maintains an 80-20 split favoring high school recruiting over the transfer portal, how he runs practice with a 32-second clock to make it harder than games, and why he sees himself as a cultural driver rather than a motivational coach. This is a conversation recorded with all of our coaches inside "The Arena." That is our mastermind group for coaches in all sports. And it did not disappoint. Notes: Stop recruiting, start selecting. PJ doesn't chase the highest-rated players... He looks for fit and alignment with his values. Ask yourself: Are you trying to convince people to join your team, or are you selecting people who already want what you're building? Efficiency beats duration. PJ runs 95-minute practices with a 32-second play clock, always moving, always intense. The principle: Make practice harder than the game. Where in your work are you confusing time spent with intensity and focus? Internal drive trumps external motivation. PJ calls his ideal players "Nektons," always attacking, never satisfied. He's looking for people who prove their worth to themselves, not to others. If you need constant external motivation, you're not ready for elite teams. A leader must teach and demand. A team member must prepare and perform. These aren't opposing forces—they're two sides of the same commitment to excellence. My junior year at Ohio University. I was the quarterback of the Ohio football team. We lost to No. 17 Northern Illinois 30-23 in overtime on a Saturday night. P.J. Fleck caught the game-tying 15-yard touchdown pass late in the fourth quarter. PJ finished with 14 catches for 235 yards and a touchdown. (I threw a 30-yard TD pass to Anthony Hackett to put us up a TD right before halftime). Let your team see you played. They do"Guess that Gopher" before team meetings, where players guess which coach's highlights they're watching. Give them a peek behind the curtain. It builds credibility and connection. PJ honors his mentor, Jim Tressel, by wearing a tie while coaching. Who are you honoring through your daily practices? Keep your door open. PJ has no secretary. Players can walk into his office at any moment. Create fluidity between you and your team. Transparency after tragedy is a choice. When PJ's son died from a heart condition, he had two options: never talk about it again, or let it shape him. He chose radical transparency, knowing it would get scrutinized. That's where "Row the Boat" comes from. A losing season reveals what you actually need. After going 1-11 at Western Michigan while also getting divorced, PJ says every coach should experience a losing season. It forces you to identify what you actually need versus what you don't need. Choose what scares you. When deciding on Minnesota, Heather asked him, "Does this scare you?" He said, "Hell yeah, it scares me." His response: "Well then, that's where we're going." Life versus living. Living is the salary and contract. Life is about moments and memory. If you can't stay in the moment and reflect on great moments or hard moments, life will be like mashed potatoes to you. Your expectations should match your resources. The gap between expectations and resources is called frustration. The bigger the gap, the more frustration from everyone around you. Maintain an 80/20 model if you can. 80% high school players, 20% transfer portal. PJ has one of the highest retention rates in the country because of selection and fit, not recruiting. "It's not about the money until it's about the money." The kids' PJ gets value for other things before the money talk. They enjoy the experience of being a college athlete. PJ leads with "I'm really difficult to play for." PJ's opening line to recruits. He asks for a lot. This makes people who are lazy, complacent, or fraudulent run like hell. "This is going to expose me." Start with good people, not good players. Out of 500 kids, who are the best 25 young men? PJ doesn't get five stars. He gets two and three stars who believe they can be five stars. A chip versus a crack on your shoulder. Once you do something the media says you couldn't do, they'll set a new bar. All PJ wants is kids who want to prove to themselves that they can do what people say they couldn't. You don't need PJ's personality. You need the internal drive to be the best version of yourself. That's what he's selecting for. div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8"> _*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown"> "I'm not a motivational coach. I'm a cultural driver." PJ picks their "how." He picks their journey. If someone needs constant motivation, they're not ready. Peel back the Instagram filter. Everything you see on social media is filtered. You have to dig deeper with this generation to find out who they really are. Hire former players back. PJ's staff has more former players who played for him than ever before. They cut their teeth in the building. In this transactional era, former players help you stay transformational. The HYPRR System. This is PJ's hyperculture framework he created after going 1-11: H (How): The people. Nektons who always attack. How you do one thing is how you do everything. Consistency matters. Y (Yours): Your vision. It's YOUR life, not anyone else's vision. Players are the builders. Don't tell me you want an extravagant home and then hire bad builders. P (Process): The work. The who, what, when, where, and why. Anyone should be able to ask those questions at any point. R (Result): Focus on the HYP. It's not the officials' fault. It's not the other team's fault. R (Response): How will you respond to the result? Don't believe the hype. Everything about hype is before the result happens. Focus on How, Yours, and Process instead. Someone will take what you were taught was horrible and create a business model. PJ uses Uber and Airbnb as examples. We were taught "stranger danger" as kids. Now we get in cars with strangers while drunk and sleep in their homes. The right people plugged into crazy visions can change everything. Define success as peace of mind. That's how PJ's program defines success. Not wins and losses. Train body language. "Big chest" means standing up straight. Players are not allowed to put their hands on their knees or their heads. If you can't hold yourself up, trainers need to check on you. Teach response, not reaction. You can have emotions, but train to not be emotional. The real world wants to see you react. Train to respond properly in every situation. Your words have power. PJ's players know the definitions of 150 words that will help them for the rest of their lives. Give substance to the filters. That's your job as an educator. Cut all the fat off practice. PJ was from the era of 3.5-hour practices. He has ADD and needs to move. He got bored as a player, so he vowed to run practice differently. Run a 32-second play clock constantly. Every 32 seconds, you run a play. You are always under the two-minute warning in practice. This trains your team to operate under pressure. Never practice longer than 95 minutes. It's one thing to watch as a recruit. It's another to experience it as a player. Kids puke during dynamic warmup in the first week because it's that intense. Make practice harder than the game. The game will eventually slow down for your players if practice is legitimately harder. Nektons flow through water currents without being affected. Don't let circumstances dictate behavior. Train this mindset daily. The biggest jump in sports is from high school to college. 17-year-olds playing against 24-year-olds. It's not just talent. It's experience, development, strength, and confidence all at once. Never let any environment be too big for your coaches. Train your staff to be comfortable in all situations, not just your players. Always be learning outside your field. PJ attends leadership seminars with SEALs and Green Berets. At one dinner, a retired military officer who looked like Sean Connery scanned the room quietly, then said: "I'm taking in all the good in the room. I'm also coming up with a plan to kill every one of you, in case I need to." He never came back to the table because he got called to active duty and left for Afghanistan. Always be ready. That's what makes you special. Watch to learn. PJ watched "Landman" and took notes on how to run the next team meeting. His wife hates that he can never relax. Find teaching and education in everything you do. When you stop, you stop growing. Get better at celebrating. PJ has a great bourbon and champagne collection. He celebrates more than he ever has. Balance the intensity with moments of joy. Make transformational programs real. Gopher for Life program. Monthly educational courses. Monthly date nights where players bring their dates and learn dinner etiquette. Monthly racial education class. Weekly coach development on Thursdays, where coaches speak on any topic to advance their careers. Don't let important things stop when the news cycle moves on. COVID and racism got put in the same bracket. When COVID stopped, racism education stopped everywhere. Not at Minnesota. Keep going. Bring back the fun. After wins, players can't wait to pick the design for the next team shirt. PJ gives them five options, and they get into it. People are losing the fun connection that made elementary school great. A coach's job is to teach and demand. A player's job is to prepare and perform. If you're a coach, you better be teaching things: life, sport, relationships. Elite teams are led by players. Your job is to get as many elite people to the front of the bus as possible. More Learning #226 - Steve Wojciechowski: How to Win Every Day #281 - George Raveling: Wisdom from MLK Jr to Michael Jordan #637 - Tom Ryan: Chosen Suffering: Become Elite in Life & Leadership

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Dan Coyle is a New York Times bestselling author who's spent the last two decades studying what makes great teams great. He wrote The Talent Code , The Culture Code , and now Flourish —books that have shaped how millions of people think about skill development, team culture, and meaningful connection. He works with the Cleveland Guardians as a special advisor on culture and performance. We recorded this one together in Cleveland. Notes: Find your yellow doors. Most of us go through life looking for green doors (clearly open paths) and red doors (obviously closed paths). But yellow doors are different. They're out of the corner of your eye, things that make you uncomfortable or feel brand new. That's where life actually happens. We think life is a straight line from A to B to C, but it's not. Life isn't a game... It's complex, living, shifting. Yellow doors are opportunities to create meaningful connections and explore new paths. "Life deepens when we become aware of the yellow doors, the ones we glimpse out of the corner of our eye." The craft journey always involves getting simpler. Simple is not easy. The great ones have their craft to where there's a simplicity to it. In this world of clutter and noise, it's easy to want to compete with energy and speed, but the stuff that really resonates is quieter and simpler. Be a beginner again in something. With climbing, Dan's at the very bottom of the craft mountain. With writing, he's somewhere in the middle. It's fun to have a couple of zones in your life where you're a beginner. It's liberating, but it also develops empathy. Some stuff looks very simple, but isn't. Every good story has three elements. There's some desire (I want to get somewhere), there's some obstacle (this thing standing in my way), and there's some transformation on that journey. Teaching teaches you. Coaching Zoe's writing team helped Dan, and then Zoe ended up coaching Dan. It was never "let me transmit all my wisdom to my daughter." It was a rich two-way dialogue that helped both of them. Suffering together is powerful. Doing hard things together with other people, untangling things together (literally and figuratively), and being vulnerable together. That's culture code stuff. Whether it's skiing with your kids, seeing them fall and get back up, or being trapped underground like the Chilean miners. Behind every individual success is a community. Dan dedicates all his books to his wife, Jenny (except one). Growing up, he had this idea of individual success, individual greatness. But when you scratch one of those individual stories, what's revealed is a community of people. Jenny is the ecosystem that lets Dan do what he does. Going from writing project to writing project, hoping stuff works out, exploring... it's not efficient. It's not getting on the train to work and coming home at five o'clock. It's "I think I need to go to Russia" or "I need to dig into this." She's been more than a partner, an incredible teammate. Great organizations aren't machines; they're rivers. The old model of leadership is the pilot of the boat, the person flipping levers who has all the answers. That's how most of us grew up thinking about leaders. But Indiana football, the SEALs, Pixar... when you get close to these organizations, they're not functioning like machines. Machines are controlled from the outside and produce predictable results. These organizations are more like energy channels that are exploring. They're like rivers. How do you make a river flow? Give it a horizon to flow toward (where are we going?), set up river banks (where we're not gonna go), but inside that space create energy and agency. Questions do that. Leaders who are good at lobbing questions in and then closing their mouth... that's the most powerful skill. Great teams have peer leaders who sacrifice. Since Indiana football's fresh in our minds... Peer leaders who sacrifice for the team are really big. Fernando Mendoza got smoked, battered, hammered, and he kept going without complaint. In his interview afterward, he talks about his teammates. That's the DNA of great teams. Adversity reveals everything. The litmus test: in moments of terrible adversity, what's the instinct? Are we turning toward each other or away from each other? You could see it in that game. The contrast between the two teams. When things went bad, they responded very differently. The coach isn't as important as you think. Coaches can create the conditions for the team to emerge, but great teams sometimes pit themselves against the coach. The US Olympic hockey team of 1980 would be an example. They came together against Herb Brooks. So coaching sets the tone, but it's not as big a part of DNA as people think. Curiosity keeps great teams from drinking their own Kool-Aid. The teams that consistently succeed don't get gassed up on their own stuff. They don't believe in their success. They're not buying into "now I'm at the top of the mountain, everything's fine." They get curious about that next mountain, curious about each other, curious about the situation. They're willing to let go of stuff that didn't work. Honor the departed. When someone gets traded in pro sports, it's like death. Their locker's empty like a gravestone. What the coach at OKC does: on the day after somebody gets traded, he spends a minute of practice expressing his appreciation for that person who's gone. How simple and human is that? How powerful? What makes people flourish is community. It's not a bunch of individuals that are individually together. Can they connect? Can they love their neighbor and support their neighbor? That's magical when it happens. The Chilean miners created civilization through rituals. 33 men, 2,000 feet underground, trapped for 69 days. The first couple hours went as bad as it could. People eating all the food, scrambling, yelling. Then they circled up and paused. The boss took off his helmet and said, "There are no bosses and no employees. We're all one here." Their attention shifted from terror and survival to the larger connection they had with each other. They self-organized. Built sleeping areas, rationed food, created games with limited light. Each meal they'd share a flake of tuna at the same time. When they got contact with the surface, they sang the Chilean national anthem together. They created a little model civilization that functioned incredibly well. Stopping and looking creates community. What let the miners flourish wasn't information or analysis. It was letting go. Having this moment of meaning, creating presence. All the groups Dan visited had this ability in all the busyness to stop and ask: What are we really about? What matters here? What is our community? Why are we here? What is bigger than us that we're connected to? They grounded themselves in those moments over and over. Getting smart only gets you so far. There's a myth in our culture that individuals can flourish. You see someone successful and think "that individual's flourishing." But underneath them, invisibly, they're part of a larger community. We only become our best through other people. We have a pronoun problem: I, me, when actually it's we and us. Self-improvement isn't as powerful as shared improvement. Ask energizing questions. "What's energizing you right now?" is a great question. "What do you want more of?" "What do you want to do differently?" (not "what are you doing poorly"). "Paint a picture five years from now, things go great, give me an average Tuesday." What you're trying to do is get people out of their narrow boredom, let go a little, surrender a little, open up and point out things in the corner of their eye. When things go rough, go help somebody. Craig Counsell on how to bounce back when you're having a bad day: "I try to go help somebody." That's it. Create presence conditions. The ski trips, the long drives, the shared meals, no phones. Schedule them. This is how connection happens, whether it's with your family or your people at work. Leaders who sustain excellence are intensely curious. Dan walked into the Guardians office expecting to pepper them with questions. The opposite happened. Jay, Chris, and Josh kept asking him question after question, wanting to learn. Leaders who sustain excellence have this desire to learn, improve, get better. Ask better questions. Actually listen. Ask follow-up questions. Curiosity is also the ultimate way to show love. Reflection Questions Dan says yellow doors are "out of the corner of your eye, things that make you uncomfortable or feel brand new." What's one yellow door you've been walking past lately? What's stopping you from opening it this week?The Chilean miners' boss took off his white helmet and said, "There are no bosses and no employees." Think about a moment of adversity your team is facing right now. Are you turning toward each other or away? What's one specific action you could take this week to help your team turn toward each other? Dan emphasizes we have a "pronoun problem" (I, me vs. we, us) and that "self-improvement isn't as powerful as shared improvement." Who are the 2-3 people you could invite into your growth journey right now? What would it look like to pursue excellence together instead of alone?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com to learn more This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: Brad Stulberg is a bestselling author and leading expert on sustainable performance and well-being. He's written for The New York Times, Outside Magazine, and The Atlantic, and his previous books include Peak Performance and The Practice of Groundedness . His latest book, The Way of Excellence, is great. Brad's writing combines cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, and stories from world-class performers to help people do their best work without losing themselves in the process. Notes: Never pre-judge a performance. When you're feeling tired, uninspired, or off your game, show up anyway. Remember the Beatles scene—they looked bored and exhausted, but Paul still wrote "Get Back" that day. You don't know what's possible until you get going. Discipline means doing what needs to be done regardless of how you feel. As powerlifter Layne Norton says, we don't need to feel good to get going... We need to get going to give ourselves a chance to feel good. Stop waiting for motivation. Start moving and let the feeling follow. Audit who you're surrounding yourself with. The Air Force study is striking: the least fit person in your squadron determines everyone else's fitness level. If you sit within 25 feet of a high performer at work, your performance improves 15%. Within 25 feet of a low performer? It declines 30%. Your environment isn't neutral... Choose wisely. Treat curiosity like a muscle. It's a reward-based behavior that gets stronger with use. When Kobe said he played "to figure things out," he was tapping into the neural circuitry that makes learning feel good and builds upon itself. Ask more questions. Stay curious about your craft. Excellence isn't about perfection or optimization... It's about mastery and mattering. It's about showing up consistently, surrounding yourself wisely, and staying curious along the way. To the late Robert Pirsig - one of the greatest blessings and joys and sources of satisfaction in my life is to be in conversation with your work. He's the author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance— "gumption is the psychic gasoline that keeps the whole thing going." Arrogant people are loud. Confident people are quiet. Confidence requires evidence. The neural circuitry associated with curiosity is like a muscle: it gets stronger with use. Curiosity is what neuroscientists call a reward-based behavior. It feels good, motivates us to keep going, and builds upon itself. Kobe didn't play to win. He played to learn and grow. Kobe Bryant said he didn't play not to lose, and he didn't even play to win. He played to learn and to grow. He said the reason he did that is because it's so much more freeing. If you're really trying not to lose, you're going to be tight. If you're really trying to win, you're going to be tight. But if you're just out there to grow, you're going to be in the moment. When you're in the moment, you give yourself the best chance of having the performance you want. The word compete comes from the Latin root word com, which means together, and petere, which means to seek, rise up, or strive. In its most genuine form, competition is about rising together (Caitlin Clark's story against LSU). Love: The Detroit Lions had just won their first playoff game in 32 years. Following the game was a scene of pure jubilation. During a short break from the celebrating, the head coach, GM, and quarterback all gave brief speeches. Which collectively lasted about 2 minutes. During those 2 minutes, the word LOVE was repeated 7 times. Homeostatic regulation -- Sense it in the greatness of others and when you're at your best. What Brad calls "excellence." Surround yourself with people who have high standards. When things don't go your way, when you're inevitably heartbroken or frustrated, it's the people around you, the books you read, the art around you, the music you listen to, that's the stuff that speaks to you and keeps you going. It keeps you on the path even amidst the heartbreak. Process goals work better than outcome goals for most people. If you're an amateur, you should be process-focused. When I train for powerlifting, I don't think about the meet that I'm training for. I think about showing up for the session today. If I think about the meeting, I get anxious, and my performance goes down. But if you're Steph Curry and you've been doing your thing for 20 years, you can think about winning the gold medal because your process is so automatic. For 99% of people, focus on the process. "Brave New World" turns fear into curiosity. When you walk up to a bar loaded with more weight than you've ever touched, there can be fear about what it's going to feel like. If you go up to the bar with fear, you're going to miss the lift. If you're convinced you're going to make it, you'll make it, but your nervous system knows when you're lying to yourself. The middle ground is curiosity. Instead of saying "that's heavy, it's scary," I say "Brave New World. I've never touched this weight before. I have no idea what's going to happen, but let's find out." It splits the difference. I'm hyped, I'm giving myself a chance, I'm not lying to myself, but I'm also not scared. Curiosity and fear cannot exist at the same time in the brain. There are seven pathways in the brain defined by affective neuroscientist Jaak Panksepp. Two of those pathways are the rage/fear pathway and the seeking/curiosity pathway. These pathways cannot be turned on at the same time. They compete for resources. It's a zero sum game. You cannot simultaneously be raging and curious. You cannot be terrified and curious at the same time. If you get into a mindset of curiosity, it's extremely hard to be angry or terrified. By being curious, we turn off the fear deep in our brains and give ourselves a chance to perform our best. Practice curiosity in lower-consequence situations first. Curiosity is like a muscle. If you're about to do something absolutely terrifying and you're really scared and you say, "I'm just going to be curious," you know you're lying to yourself. You have to practice in lower-consequence situations first. When you, as a paren,t get really upset with your kid, try to be curious about their experience. Watch your anger calm down. When you as a leader, have a board presentation where you're feeling anxious, try to have that mindset of "Brave New World." When you're an athlete going into a big game obsessing about what could go wrong, try to be really curious instead. The best competitors have emotional flexibility. As a competitor, you would know that in the confines of the game, you're not singing Kumbaya, you are trying to kill them. Then you have the emotional flexibility the minute that game ends to respect them as a person. That is the best way to compete. That's when our best performances happen. It's not either/or, it's both/and. It's playing really hard, giving everything you can for the win, seizing on your opponent's vulnerability, at the same time as having deep respect for them. You don't have to be miserable to be excellent. There are people like David Goggins or Michael Jordan who seem motivated by anger and a chip on their shoulder. But Jordan would put his tongue out like this primal expression of joy when he was about to dunk. And Jordan won all his championships while being coached by Phil Jackson, the Zen master of compassion. There are the Steph Currys of the world, or Courtney Dauwalter (best ultra marathoner to ever exist), or Albert Einstein (total mystic who had so much fun in his work). There are two ways to the top of the mountain. For 99.999% of people, you end up performing better with fun and joy, and you have so much more satisfaction, which contributes to longevity. The best leaders take work seriously but laugh at themselves. The best leaders I know in the corporate world, they take the work so seriously. They are so intense. But my God, do they laugh at themselves and their colleagues and have fun. Reflection Questions Brad says, "The things that break your heart are the things that fill your life with meaning." What are you currently holding back from caring deeply about because you're afraid of getting hurt? What would it look like to step fully into that arena despite the risk of heartbreak? The Air Force study showed that sitting within 25 feet of a low performer decreases your performance by 30%. Honestly assess who you're spending the most time with right now. Are they raising your standards or lowering them? What specific change could you make this month to shift your environment? Brad uses "Brave New World" to turn fear into curiosity before big challenges. Think of something coming up that makes you anxious. Instead of trying to convince yourself you'll succeed or dwelling on the fear, what does it feel like to approach it with pure curiosity: "I've never done this before. Let's find out what happens."

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for more This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader Jimmy Wales is the founder of Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. After his daughter Kira's birth faced medical challenges and he couldn't find reliable information online, Jimmy launched Wikipedia in January 2001. In this conversation, Jimmy shares why extending trust before it's earned creates better outcomes, how to deal with bad actors, and the seven rules for building things that last. Notes: Key Learnings (in Jimmy's words) Wikipedia launched 20 days after my daughter was born. When Kira was born, I realized that when you go on the internet, and you've got a question like, "what is this condition my daughter has?" It just wasn't there. There were either random blogs or academic journal articles that were way above my head. Kira was born on December 26th, and I opened Wikipedia on January 15th. Nupedia failed because of the seven-stage review process. Before Wikipedia, we worked on Nupedia. We recruited academics to write articles. You had to send in your CV showing you were qualified before you could write anything. We had very slow progress. I was on the verge of giving up. This top-down approach with a seven-stage review process before you publish anything that's no fun, and nobody's doing it. We let anyone edit and figured we'd add structure later. We thought we'd have to figure out who the editor-in-chief of the chemistry section is. You're gonna have to have some kind of authority and hierarchy. But I thought, let's just not have too much structure for as long as possible. "It's fun. You could be the first person to create a page." There was a point in time when you could write, "Paris is the capital of France". That's amazing. It's not much of an encyclopedia article, but it was fun. It's like, oh, we can just start documenting whatever we know. People started just doing all kinds of stuff. The magic is when you come back and see others improving your work. You could just write a few facts down and hit save, and it's not very good yet. But you'd go back a few days later and see somebody dug in, and they added more information. That element has always been really important. Is it fun? Do you enjoy the activity? Do you meet interesting people? You spend one afternoon, you add a few facts, and then you think, you know what? The world's just ever so slightly better. Trust is conditional, not naive. Out of every thousand people, probably a small handful are gonna be really annoying. But it's really rare to have somebody who's actually malicious. The idea of assuming good faith, as we call it in Wikipedia, is extending trust first before it's been earned. It's conditional. You extend that friendly hand of trust. And if the person proves themselves to be super problematic, then you have to deal with it. To get trust, give trust. Most people are decent. It also creates an environment where trustworthy behavior is rewarded. As a boss, wouldn't it be fantastic if you said, I'm going to go off and do this other thing, but I just trust my people are so good, they're gonna crack on with the work? Sometimes they'll make a call I would've made differently. That's okay. They're smart. Sometimes they're going to get it better than I did. "You haven't earned my trust." When somebody looks you dead in the eye and says, "You haven't earned my trust," that's destruction. It's the opposite of building a culture where people can thrive. Extending trust works in parenting, too. When teenagers say, "Well, it doesn't matter what I do, they're going to think the worst anyway, so I might as well do the bad thing." That's really unfortunate. As opposed to saying to your teenager, "Yeah, you want to go out and stay a little later than before. I want you to do that. I trust you, but you gotta do it the right way." You give that trust and believe me, they come home right on time because this is my chance to actually nail this. Give your children an opportunity to live up to building trust. When trust is broken, you can rebuild it faster than you think. Frances Fry is a Harvard professor who had a huge job at Uber when they had an enormous crisis of trust. People say once you've broken trust, that's it, you can never get it back. But is it really true? No, it's actually not true. She thinks companies can rebuild trust faster than you think. A teenager who's broken a rule can rebuild trust pretty quickly. And our job is to let them rebuild that trust. The eighth rule is walk the walk. The rules of trust aren't just a lot of good words. You actually have to walk the walk. If you say "I screwed up" and you own that, but then you go back to being the same as you were before, you're not going to rebuild trust. But if you walk the walk, people will see that. Airbnb rebuilt trust by walking the walk. Really early in Airbnb's history, someone rented out their apartment and came home and it was absolutely trashed. Airbnb handled it very badly. They were stonewalling. In this era, that's often the wrong advice. Not saying anything just means it goes viral. So they ripped off the band-aid. They said, Look, we screwed this up. They started requiring ID's for people renting apartments out, ID's from customers, and substantial insurance for owners. They walked the walk. Transparency doesn't mean sharing everything; it means sharing the process. If people can see your workings, they can see what you're doing and how it works, it gives them assurance in the process. It's about judgment calls. What would be helpful for us to share so people can trust the whole process? If you think people are fundamentally rotten, you can't work with them. It's very easy when we look at the state of the world to be downtrodden, cynical, and don't trust anybody. If you think people on the other side of you politically or people at your workplace are fundamentally just rotten people, then you're going to have a hard time listening to them. You're going to have a hard time understanding where they're coming from. You're not going to do the right things that make sense to people. Which hurts all of society. When you've been beaten up by life, change the channel. If you work somewhere where your boss doesn't trust you and your coworkers are all backstabbing freaks, it's time to change the channel. Every night, you should be trying to find a better position. Your number one criteria in looking for that next position is finding somebody who you think is a proper person to be your manager. Think of it as you're interviewing the company just as much as they're interviewing you. When you give trust, you attract trustworthy people. When you become known as a person who gives trust before it's earned, you magically attract trustworthy people. It's kind of cool how it works. Will you get burned every once in a while? Maybe. But you attract the type of people that you wanna be around. Curiosity is the ultimate love language. Get out there in the world and be curious. Asking people questions and being genuinely curious about their stories and learning about them and asking follow-up questions is a great way to show love and to connect with people. When you find yourself in a curiosity conversation where everyone's asking and learning, and they're head nodding and into it, there's nothing better. That's human nature connecting. We are born to connect and collaborate with others. It's quite easy and natural for people to fit into whatever culture is around them. We naturally like to work together to build something good. We're social, and we like to be social. We collaborate to build experiences together. A party with only yourself is not a party. Do what you love, even if it takes time to get there. One of the things that I think is really important is do what you love, do something that you really care about. Oftentimes for young people, there's this struggle between here's the thing that I really want to be doing, and here's the thing that's going to make me some money. Work really hard to find a way to put those together. Reflection Questions Jimmy says extending trust before it's earned creates better outcomes, but it requires not being naive when someone proves untrustworthy. Think of a situation where you're withholding trust. Is it because of actual evidence that this person is untrustworthy, or are you bringing baggage from past experiences with different people? What would it look like to extend conditional trust in this situation? If you're in a leadership position, honestly assess: are there team members who feel you don't trust? What specific actions could you take this week to demonstrate trust before they've "earned" it in the traditional sense? More Learning #605 - Seth Godin: The Power of Remarkable Ideas #598 - Sam Parr: Bold, Fast, Fun (Founder of The Hustle) #645 - Ryan Petersen: Take Action - From Crisis to Solution Audio Pod Timestamps 02:07 Jimmy Wales' Early Fascination with Encyclopedias 04:28 The Birth of Wikipedia 07:35 The Trust Factor in Wikipedia 12:04 Managing Bad Actors on Wikipedia 15:28 Personal Reflections on Trust 27:05 Setting Reasonable Boundaries for Teens 28:18 Rebuilding Trust After It's Broken 32:37 The Importance of Transparency in Leadership 36:50 The Power of Positive Purpose 39:06 Practical Advice for the Trust-Broken 43:01 Connecting and Collaborating with Others 45:17 Career Advice for Young Professionals 49:41 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com to learn more... This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My Guest: Mike Deegan just led Denison University Baseball to their first College World Series appearance in program history. He's been named Coach of the Year in back-to-back years and is the all-time winningest coach in school history. In this conversation, Mike shares how he uses Mudita to build culture, how to help people get out of slumps, and why discipline and consistency are superpowers. Key Learnings (in Mike's words) Mudita is a vicarious joy. Can I be happy for another's success as if it's my own? To me, that is like the secret sauce of life. Obviously, in a sports team, not everyone can be the star. One of the biggest misconceptions is that the star rotates. Yeah, you need a superstar to compete at the highest levels, but to win, you're going to need pinch runners, you're going to need the guy laying a big block. It's going to take everyone. It's really celebrating everyone's contribution. In recruiting, I ask parents: Can you be happy for another kid's success as if it's your own? If your neighbor gets a new car, are you happy for them? Or do you say, "Oh, I wish. I bet his parents bought that for him." There are just different ways to show up for people, where you can just have joy. By pouring yourself into others, especially in sports, I think it frees you up to perform your best. Envy is a natural feeling. I don't want anyone to feel that envy from me. I think what we're saying is that envy is a natural feeling. Wanting to do great yourself, those are very natural, and I want people to live in that space. But can we just stop it and be a little bit more intentional and just celebrate what other people are doing well? Spot the good first. As a consultant, there are two ways you can do things. One is to find the negative, and that's really easy to do. But I try to go and spot the good first. There's plenty of time to nitpick later on. Find some opportunities to help people grow. People love to talk about themselves. My wife is very quiet, a great listener, and people love her. She has a million best friends, and no one knows it because she doesn't talk a whole lot. She just listens. If you can just listen and get people to talk about what they're passionate about, it's a life secret. You can tell when someone's really passionate about what they're doing, and you can tell when they're on the fence because they speed up when they talk, they get a little excited. Curiosity is a great way to show love. If you approach it from envy, we don't unpack the cool story. But if you lead with curiosity and not envy, it unpacks everything. I do think it takes a level of self-awareness and comfort in your own skin. How to build self-awareness: Read, write, and get around wise people. If you read a decent amount, if you write (and that was my forcing function, to actually write and put thought to paper), and then get around wise people and just have conversations, I think you'll start building out the awareness of who you are and what you value. A systems thinker builds frameworks that outlast individuals. It's someone who can build out frameworks that are built to put people and the organization in the best spot to win and be successful. It's a framework that outlasts individuals. Coaches may leave or players may leave, but if you have a system built out that it can sustain losing certain individuals, because things are cranking and you can repeat the work. You can do iterations and quickly test if you're getting closer or further from your goals. I almost try to talk people out of coming here. The most underrated thing in our recruiting is when they sit with me, I almost try to talk people out of coming here. I'll say, "Hey, what's the main driver?" If they say playing time, I'm like, "Hey, that's great. That's an awesome goal, but I wouldn't come here for that. We're going to play our best players. But that's not why you come to Denison. You come to be a part of something bigger than yourself, and there are all these other places where you're going to have a much better shot at that." I'm always listening in on what they value and trying to challenge it. Almost get people to self-select out. The better your culture is, you can take chances on people. It's like Randy Moss and the New England Patriots. Tom Brady was an alpha, and you could bring people in and take a risk and see if they can conform to the culture a little bit. When you have things in place, our locker room was phenomenal. People would say, "Hey, I don't know, this kid has some red flags." I'm like, "Red flags, like he's a serial killer? Or like red flag,s like he's super competitive?" The locker room would take care of a lot of that. If there's something built out that you feel pretty strongly about, I think you can take in some of these high-risk, high-reward people because they can't damage the culture like you would think they can. Early on in that tenure, I was very, very careful with this. But now we can take some chances on people if the DNA is right. The lack of seriousness pushed people out. When I took over, I'm the opposite of the guy I played for. And every time someone quit, I would just say thank you. And I meant that too because we were going in a certain direction. There was talent. It needed more seriousness. We had enough talent that it was going to allow us to compete at a conference level. I think it's amazing when you can just put boundaries and guardrails and point people in the right direction. We just provided a little structure, a little discipline. The DNA of great teams: Roles, sacrifice, discipline, leadership, joy. Everyone has a role and to beat objective expectations. When good meets good, you have got to understand that every role is essential to the cause. Status goes away. Second, we're in this together. There's no prima donna. I think that's what happens with championship teams. For us to compete on a national level, our guys do miss out on a lot. Grades may suffer. There are trade-offs with this thing. Then I hear discipline. Discipline and consistency is a superpower. The people that I see that really excel in the professional baseball world they seem to have a maturity about them at a much younger age. And that comes with discipline and consistency. Then leadership. There's going to be someone that's navigating the ship. In my beautiful world, it would be where that person's not an egomaniac. They're not in front. They're just waiting for everyone to get out. The last thing is joy. People tend to enjoy what they're doing. They do it with a smile on their face. "Don't hire for when you think times are good. Hire for the person you wanna be around when times are bad because they're coming." An example of a great team outside of sports: The Chilean miners found roles quickly and stuck together. They had food for two days but rationed it out. They had a spiritual leader, medical guy, someone to keep them on task. Everyone had a specific role and they performed it. How you talk to your teammates is how you should talk to yourself. I had a conversation with a kid that I really admire on our team and I said, "Hey man, I never hear you talk to your teammates like you talk to yourself. Give yourself some grace." Being really hard on yourself can also be a cop out because there are ways to channel that. Sometimes people will say "I'm a perfectionist, or that's just who I am." Come on man. A perfectionist to me, they put an insane amount of work to earn the right to be. I think we use that term pretty lightly sometimes. Confidence is built through evidence. Ryan's self-talk before a keynote sounds like this, "What an opportunity to create some evidence." How to help a hitter get out of a slump: Simplify and control the controllables. When a player's in a slump, they're probably working harder than they've ever worked in their life. But I think it's almost like they're working aimlessly. So what I try to do is simplify. I had a hitter once, he's trying everything. I gave him one swing thought for two weeks. Just get the barrel to the ball. Don't worry about launch angle, don't worry about exit velo. Can you just put good wood on the ball? We're going to control what we can control. And slowly you start seeing some results and that evidence starts compounding and you get your mojo back. You gotta be intentional with your energy before high performance. As a coach, how you show up is going to be really, really important. I saw Texas A&M's coach say you have to be the opposite of what the moment requires. While everyone's excited, you need to be the calm . And then when the proverbial is hitting the fan, you have to be the one with optimism. Getting yourself in the right mental frame to handle high performance is required of a coach and a leader. Baseball teaches you to stay calm for three hours. You don't play baseball at 130 heartbeat. It's more of Can you get that thing down? And anything I do to increase it myself, I'm going against what it takes to be a successful player. People can think baseball is boring, but what you're seeing is people trying to stay calm for three hours. Does that intensity actually lead to results? It's just basic stoicism. Baseball is the ultimate controlling what you can control and releasing what you can't. I don't know if this next ball's coming to me, but what do I do now? I can control my breathing. I control my first pitch prep step. What can you control? And I would challenge you to think, does that intensity or that emotion, does it actually lead to results or not? If it's helping you be the best version of yourself, go ahead and do it. But sometimes that overstimulation, that over emotion, it's probably just putting a lot of anxiety on your people. Just regulate, stay calm and execute. What does the team need from you right now? I think a good analogy is a cornerman in boxing. My dad used to always say, Watch a cornerman in boxing because some people you gotta smack. Some people say, "Come on champ. You're the best. You're the best. You're the best." When you're walking out there, you're trying to think, what does the team need from you right now? What message? If I'm a mirror, what do they need to see? Do they need to see calm, they need to see reassurance? Are we playing a little timid and scared? And maybe you're trying to jolt them a little bit with some energy and some choice words. There's an intentionality to it. You're trying to speak some stuff into existence, even if you're making stuff up. You acknowledge it, and then you also try to point them in a direction for improvement. Life throws haymakers at you all the time. I think that's the greatest gift that we can give people through sports. Most of us experience adversity along the way. It's this unique ability to just keep moving. You reflect, you try to get better. You give yourself some grace, you move on. You just keep working through that process. As simple as it may sound to us, I don't think many people can get there. "Setbacks are temporary. I bounce back quickly." I write this down in my lineup card. You're creating evidence. It's something very simple, but I'm going to take a punch and I'll bounce back quickly. I think those are just good reminders in life. This happens. We're going to respond. Reflection Questions Mike practices Mudita by being genuinely happy for others' success without envy. Think of someone in your life who recently had a big win (promotion, new house, achievement). Were you genuinely happy for them, or did envy creep in? What would it look like to celebrate them more fully? He says "Don't hire for when you think times are good. Hire for the person you wanna be around when times are bad." Who on your current team would you want in the foxhole with you during a crisis, and what qualities make them that person? Mike asks himself before big moments: "What does the team need from me right now?" rather than just reacting emotionally. Think about a high-pressure situation coming up in your life. What will your team/family/colleagues need from you in that moment, and how can you prepare to show up that way? More Learning #217 - JJ Reddick : You've Never Arrived, You're Always Becoming #281 - George Raveling : Eight Decades of Wisdom #509 - Buzz Williams : The 9 Daily Disciplines Audio Timestamps: 02:11 Implementing Mudita in Teams 06:22 Curiosity and Spotting the Good 14:54 Recruiting and Hiring Philosophy 20:36 Building a Winning Culture 24:46 DNA of Great Teams 27:55 The Importance of Team Sacrifice 28:53 Leadership and Joy in Tough Times 29:42 Handling Adversity in Sports 31:06 The Role of Self-Talk in Performance 36:52 Staying Calm Under Pressure 42:26 Lessons from Sports for Life 46:12 The Value of Resilience and Bouncing Back 48:29 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for world-class notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Oz Pearlman is the greatest mentalist in the world. After leaving Wall Street to pursue his craft full-time, he's performed for Steven Spielberg's family, for Nobel laureates, and Fortune 500 CEOs. He ran a 2:23 marathon and holds the record for most laps around Central Park in a single day. With five kids and 250+ performances a year, Oz has mastered the art of reading people and understanding what separates good from world-class. Key Learnings (In Oz's words) Doug Anderson is the magician who got me into magic. When I was 13 years old, I went on a cruise with my parents. I got pulled up on stage and took part in a magic trick. (The sponge balls) After the trick, my dad and I started creating theories on how the trick worked. The people in every industry who make it to the top are the ones who are kind and respectful to others. As soon as you stop thinking that you can learn from others, you start dying. What is the recipe for success? It's getting through the tough times. When I walked up to someone at a restaurant, and I'm 14, and I have a very fragile ego, after three tables in a row at differing levels of rudeness go by, "Dude, get outta here, man. Like, I don't wanna see this," it hurts. That's a painful thing to experience. I had to learn a defense mechanism very quickly because carrying that pain, pain turns into anger. When I get to the next table, I'm angry at the next group, even though they haven't done anything wrong to me. I realized to get my goal, I needed tougher, thicker skin. Deflect the rejection onto someone else. Create separation between you and rejection. I created what I would call an agent in my own mind. When you're in showbiz, the conversations you don't wanna have, your agent has for you. I'm a 14-year-old doing restaurants. I don't have an agent, so here's what I decided. When they don't like me, they don't know me. They don't know Oz Pearlman. They know this guy Oz the magician, who walked up to them. Maybe my tricks aren't good enough. Maybe my approach wasn't good enough. Maybe they had a bad day at work or their kid's sick. I made it less about me, and I was able to deflect all of that pain and hurt to this other person. The fear of rejection is worse than the rejection itself. Once you experience rejection a few times, it's not that bad. It's like dating. It's a numbers game. You'll probably not meet your spouse on the first try. You gotta meet a whole lot of other people to realize what you like best in the person that hopefully ends up spending your life with. "Never let someone else be in charge of your destiny." When I do a gig, I don't wait for someone to go, "Oh man, that'd be great. Let me get your business card." I go, "Amazing. Let me get your number and your info. I'll have someone from my team call you." My team is you, me, myself, and I. There's no team. But it sounds fancier. Fake it till you make it. Branding is so important. When I went on America's Got Talent, I made a conscious decision to separate myself from the guy from the year before. (Matt Franco) He won. I thought we were too similar. I had to do something unique or do something better than anyone else. That's when I branded myself as a mentalist and not a magician. Mentalism is much harder than magic to practice. Magic can be practiced in front of a mirror until you get almost perfect at a trick. Mentalism is near impossible to practice at home without an audience. It's like comedy. You can't tell jokes to a mirror and find out if they're funny. You need the audience to do it. Charm takes the sting out of so many things in life. It allows you to win people over quickly. What is charm? Just the ability to smile, to make someone laugh, to be vulnerable in a certain moment. That's a skill that's developed, and if you study it well, you can develop it quicker because everyone thinks it's natural. What I've learned from comedians: It's the purest form of entertainment that exists. You, the audience, and a microphone. I think you start to get a feel for timing. Where to pause, what's funny, how to get people on your side. With a heckler, there's a very fine line between punching down and offending your audience versus having them on your side and laughing with you at someone as opposed to laughing at someone. I'm a slightly more exaggerated version of myself when performing. The volume is turned up a little. The charisma is turned up a little, the ability to joke around, but it's me. I think that resonates. Walking into a room smiling, having no hesitation, connecting with somebody, remembering their name, giving them a compliment. Such easy, low-hanging fruit, separates you from 90% of other people if you can do them consistently and effectively and genuinely. "That's why he's Steven Spielberg." The Steven Spielberg lesson changed how I see success. I did Spielberg's dad's 99th birthday. At the end of it, Steven beelines to me and I'm ready. I thought I'd get 30 seconds. He talked to me for upwards of 20 minutes. He just asked question after question after question. When I left it was like a blur. I didn't ask Steven Spielberg a single question about Jaws, Close Encounters. I had all these things I wanted to ask him. I'm like, man, I totally screwed that up. But over time, the lesson got through to me. It wasn't about me. It wasn't what I was gonna ask him. It was about him. It was learning what makes him tick. No matter who you become, if you can make the other person feel like they're a star when they meet you, they will always remember that memory. Try to deflect. If people ask you questions, answer, but ask them something about themselves back that no one's asked them. Make them feel seen and heard. Make them feel like they are the star of your movie as well. Little things add up to big things over time. If you were to ask my kids what do I ingrain in them all the time? Gratitude and being polite. One of my secrets to success has always been being very polite. "Please, thank you. Always." Write a thank-you note. When I was doing bar mitzvahs, birthday parties, I realized early on, when people are throwing a party, it's very stressful. The person hosting doesn't always have the greatest time. They're so worried about everyone else. Create memorable moments. I would take a selfie with the bar mitzvah kid. I found this online service where I could instantly upload the photo. I would always give a compliment that was specific. I'd send these cards to them on Monday. The parties are usually on Saturdays. It would get there Tuesday or Wednesday. To this day, 15 to 20 years later, I'll get emails when I'm on TV from people being like, "I just dug up this card from 17 years ago. You were at Benjamin's Bar Mitzvah, and now he's 30 and has a kid of his own." Takes notes | Write everything down. In today's day and age, there's a power in the human touch that still exists. Take notes, write stuff down. I'll leave a gig, I'll write some stuff down, I'll remember it. If I run into that person again in a month, in a year, in five years, I can literally look at my phone. It's literally like a mentalism trick to reveal that information to people even though they gave it to you already, because it shows you took the time. Some of the biggest things I've ever landed backtrack to small moments. ESPN, the thing that brought us together can backtrack to a Bar Mitzvah 18 years ago where I first met Adam Schefter. The first seed was planted, and I had to keep watering it, watering it, watering it. Small plant, small plant, until it grew into this thing. Now look at all the things that came from all the things I've done with ESPN, where Adam Schefter originated them. You are interviewing for your next job every single day. You have no idea who might be in the audience. You have no idea, but you give it your all every single time. One time, Adam Schefter was in the audience. Intelligent people are often the easiest to fool. When intelligent people watch what I do, they're confident in their ability to figure it out. They think they're smarter than the average person, so they start looking for solutions. But that overconfidence creates blind spots. They're so focused on being right about how they think it's done that they miss what's actually happening. The more you think you know, the more vulnerable you become to being fooled because you're operating from assumptions rather than staying open to all possibilities. Reflection Questions Oz created an "agent in his mind" to deflect rejection away from his core self, making it about "Oz the magician" rather than Oz the person. What mental separation could you create to handle rejection or criticism more effectively in your professional life? Oz emphasizes that intelligent people are often the easiest to fool because they're confident in their ability to figure things out. In what areas of your life or work might overconfidence be blinding you to what's actually happening? Oz sends handwritten notes with specific compliments and a selfie to everyone he performs for. What's one relationship in your network right now that could be strengthened with this level of intentional follow-up, and what specific compliment could you give that person? More Learning #525 - Frank Slootman: Hypergrowth Leadership #540 - Alex Hormozi: Let Go of the Need of Approval #510 - Ramit Sethi: Live Your Rich Life Audio Timestamps 02:43 Oz's Career 04:48 The Art of Mentalism and Magic 08:22 Early Career and Overcoming Rejection 17:45 Branding and Success Strategies 22:59 Authenticity and Charm 27:25 Building Trust Through Honesty 27:53 Developing Genuine Confidence 28:36 The Power of Preparation 29:22 Learning from Failure 31:24 Connecting with Influential People 34:27 The Importance of Politeness and Gratitude 37:05 The Art of Follow-Up 42:27 Handling Nerves and Anxiety 43:23 The Magic of Mentalism on Ryan 51:55 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Brian Kelly is the founder of The Points Guy, which he built from a side hustle blog into a travel media empire that he sold for $28 million. At 42, he's now an angel investor in 15+ companies, including Bilt (valued at $11 billion). In this conversation, he shares lessons on manifestation, selling too early, building yourself into the brand, and why vulnerability beats wins in interviews. Key Learnings (in Brian's words) In 1995, I was 12 years old, and I was great with computers, so I started booking all of my dad's travel for work. He'd pay me $10 per booking. Then it turned into points, when my dad showed me all the American and US Air miles he had. "If you can figure out how to use all of them, we can go on a family trip." And the rest is history. That was my first real, oh wait, this points thing is amazing. Points were a way for us to live a fabulous lifestyle. I grew up thinking we were poor, but I really wanted to live a fabulous life. My parents were very humble and did not spend money lavishly. For me I always wanted to travel. When I was a kid, I would spin the globe and be like, This is where I'm going. I would actually research Oman. Somehow genetically, I got this gene of I need to be rich and travel the world. I used to call Mercedes, get all of their glossy pamphlets for all their new cars, and I would cut them out and stick them on my wall. Manifesting alone won't make you wealthy, but visioning helps. I do believe being able to visualize what it looks like and taste it and get close to it helps you take the smaller steps to actually achieve it. When I think of my investments, I actually envision what they're gonna be. I envision that they're multi-billion-dollar companies. I believe it unlocks a level of pushing you to reach these mini steps that you can't see throughout the process. I started The Points Guy in 2010, but there were already Titan bloggers. I for sure felt imposter syndrome, but I saw that what they lacked was creativity. Points and miles are very clinical. Very few people were translating that for an audience. I knew I had an opportunity. I'm in my twenties, living in New York City. I'm gonna explain what everyday people need to know. Building a media brand became my moat. No one else in the points world was doing media. Doing media's frightening. While it was scary going on TV the first couple times (I almost fainted), I knew that each time I did it, I got better. That was the moat I would build. I would build The Points Guy into a brand more so than any of the others who had come before me. I saw from the beginning to double and triple down on that strategy of building something that's more than just a blog, but a lifestyle that people want to achieve. "I made a million bucks in my first six months of just blogging, but using affiliate links." In 2011, within six months of learning about affiliate marketing, I made six figures a month using the credit card links in my blog. I was still working at Morgan Stanley. My mom was like, this sounds too good to be true. You can't leave Morgan Stanley. I was making like $300,000 a month in affiliate. Meanwhile, at Morgan Stanley, my salary is $70,000 a year. But it didn't pay right away. My parents actually lent me $10,000 just to pay my rent. I remember where I was in Madrid when that first Chase deposit of $490,000 hit from months of back pay on the blog. I sold for $28 million because I thought the industry would collapse. When Bankrate offered me $28 million in May 2012, I kind of had this negative mindset over where the industry was going. About a hundred blogs started when people knew they could make money on affiliates. Most bloggers have zero business sense. They were writing stuff like, "Cancel your Amex, cancel your Chase, cancel, cancel. Then get new cards." I saw this really bad business sense, very shortsighted greediness. I'm watching this thinking they're gonna pull the rug. Do I regret selling? Yes, the company is way more than what I sold it for. But at the time, you always have to remember what the landscape was. We're coming out of the recession. There were still a lot of weak indicators. Building myself into the brand gave me leverage. I had a three and a half year earnout. Over that time, the business really started to grow, but then I realized, well, I am also the business. So, the more press I did, when I negotiated with that parent company to stay on, they paid me a lot of money and still a cut of the business to grow it as CEO. It's kind of crazy to think 13 years after selling, I'm still here. But because I built myself as a core part of the business as The Points Guy, I've been able to stay on with less risk, getting paid well to do what I love. I'm more of the brand visionary, the consumer person. I'm very much an ideas person. When we're speaking with our longtime clients or pitching new ones, that's really where my special sauce is used and not in the day-to-day. People are not mind readers. In 2020, I had this breakdown where I thought I would actually leave. I went to the owners, and I was like, I just can't do it anymore. They said, "Brian, we've been waiting for you to say that. You don't need to be CEO. We have plenty of smart people." It was this aha moment. I think in life we often think polar, black or white. That's advice I give to people. Whether it's your parent company, your boss, your mentor, people are not mind readers. While there is risk to leveling with someone and saying, "Hey, this role is just killing me," more often than not in my career, the more vulnerable I was, the more it turned out to be such a blessing. Check Your Spam Email Frequently: In 2011, I was featured in the New York Times, but the email came to my spam email. At that time, the narrative that points were dead, blackout dates, etc. I was the only blogger putting a positive spin on points. And I tried to do it in an informative and fun way. I'm 6'7", so putting my personal angle on my travel reviews had a huge impact on being the face of this industry. As a founder, I was a tough boss because it was so personal. If I look back at my time as CEO, I still took it very personally. I do take the integrity of this site. As we expand, we can't forego quality. In hindsight, I didn't highlight enough of the wins. I would focus too much on mistakes. That's advice I would give if I could do it all back over again, to just be much more positive reinforcement over negative. Founders need someone who can check them. You need to have someone around you, a leadership team, someone that can check you. I didn't have that for a very long time, and that's my fault. Making sure you have good people on your team that can be honest with you, and you create an environment of inviting that feedback and not freaking out when they give it to you, is important. I know I would be a much different CEO today if I did it again. Stop BSing in the interview process. Too many people take jobs not knowing what is going on whatsoever at the company. Far too many senior executives walk into positions and they're like, oh wait a minute. I like to be brutally honest in the interview process. Truth-telling is the beginning of having a great relationship because I want you to understand exactly what's in front of you. If you don't want to take it, that's so much better than hiring a senior exec and six months later, you just lost a year. Stop telling me the wins. In the interview process, stop telling me the wins because anyone can make their job look successful. "Oh, 200% ROI, this, that the other." In an interview, you're not gonna be able to fact-check any of this. We all know people can cherry-pick the data. It's really just diving deep into vulnerable moments about their leadership, the challenges as leaders they had with their teams. I'll tell them my challenges when I was CEO. I want people to be real and allow me to understand how they think, the type of leader they are. Charismatic people can trick you. The problem is that very charismatic people can trick you easily. I've been blinded by a great interview, especially when you're exhausted as a CEO and then someone's bantering with you. You're like, oh, that was fun. But I've hired plenty of people who are all talk. I don't want personality hires. I'm the personality. My engineering team, I really need people to ship updates. I still wake up in the middle of the night asking if my bills are paid. I still have imposter syndrome about "is this crazy what I've built?" It's for sure not about the car, but I will say investing in a home that's beautiful and makes you feel really good is important. For a long time, I was traveling a lot. I never put roots down, and I always felt like I was in transit. Now I have this beautiful farm with animals and horses in New Hope, Pennsylvania. It takes my blood pressure down immediately. Angel investing has basically become an addiction. In 2020, I opened up a space where I decided I wanted to have kids even though I was single, and also started investing and advising in relevant companies. The first one was Encore Jane, who was building Built, a credit card loyalty platform for renters. I'd always thought, how cool would it be to earn points on rent? I said, You're crazy, but if it does work, it'll be massive. Built is now at $11 billion valuation. I'll make more money now, probably on Built than I will at The Points Guy, which is wild to me. I have probably about 15 other companies I put my personal money in. I love it because I can help advise founders on everything I've done, and help open doors. Using that to build wealth has become an addiction. Relentlessness is what I see in leaders who sustain excellence. I am amazed at Encore's ability to push. If he's got 10 major things impacting his business, most CEOs will start with one or two, put the others on the back burner. He will relentlessly push for excellence. I don't wanna work for Encore, but to be in the room and strategize, every time I leave a meeting with him it keeps me fresh and active. Find mentors, not just companies. For recent college grads, find people, even at a company where you might not see your future. Find someone at that company that you connect with. If you're looking for a job, interview until you find that hiring manager that you feel is on an upward rise and that you can learn from. We often focus too much on the line of work or the company. Stop focusing on that and look at that manager or the CMO whose organization you would join. If they've done amazing things, get in right away and start networking. Put time on the CMO or CEO's calendar. Be bold. Every senior executive loves to see people come in with eagerness to learn. Show up and do extracurriculars at work. Go to the lunch and learn with the senior executive and actually get face time with them. Make sure they know your name. Those are the things that matter because when it comes time for compensation and reviews, the senior person may not work with you day-to-day, but they're like, oh yeah, that's the person I really like. They are a future leader. That's how you get ahead. Even if that boss leaves to another company, they might take you. Reflection Questions Brian says manifesting alone won't make you wealthy, but visioning what it looks like helps you take the smaller steps to achieve it. What specific vision do you have for your future that you could make more tangible (like his Mercedes pictures on the bedroom wall)? How might making it more concrete change your daily actions? He emphasizes that in interviews, he wants people to stop telling him the wins and instead dive deep into vulnerable moments about their leadership and challenges with their teams. If you were in an interview tomorrow, what's one vulnerable leadership moment you could share that would demonstrate how you think rather than just what you've accomplished? Brian realized he needed to tell his parent company, "I just can't do it anymore" as CEO, and they responded with relief, offering him a better role. What conversation are you avoiding right now because you assume the answer will be no, when the other person might actually be waiting for you to speak up? More Learning #525 - Frank Slootman: Hypergrowth Leadership #540 - Alex Hormozi: Let Go of the Need of Approval #510 - Ramit Sethi: Live Your Rich Life

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Nick Gray is the author of The Two-Hour Cocktail Party and founder of Museum Hack. He's mastered the art of hosting events that strengthen networks and build genuine connections. In this conversation, he shares practical systems for hosting gatherings, why every leader needs a personal website, and lessons learned from his viral blind date trip to Tokyo. The Learning Leader Show Key Learnings Two Great Ice Breaker Questions: What's a compliment that someone has given you that you've never forgotten about? If you could teach any class about a topic that you're an expert on, what would it be? The power of a network is real: As a leader, you're probably hiring people regularly or looking for investors. By hosting simple, lightweight meetups or dinner parties, or happy hours once a quarter, you can strengthen your network, build it, and keep those loose connections or weak ties warm. Mix professional and personal contacts: For me, a really boring event would be all work people. Look for occupational diversity. If you're hosting a work event, invite some other random folks who you know are gonna be good conversationalists and add to the energy. Don't reach for the top shelf first. Most important advice for leaders: do not invite your most impressive contact to your very first happy hour or meetup. Your first party should be for your neighbors, the parents of kids at your school, those LinkedIn connections, high school buddies you haven't seen in a while. Your first party should be a comfortable meetup for 15 to 22 people that you host at your home with just cocktails, not a dinner party. Then slowly, once a quarter, you'll be adding more people to it and filtering your list. Collect RSVPs to ensure attendance. New hosts are absolutely terrified that nobody will arrive. As long as you get a minimum of 15 people to show up, your party will generally be a success. Use platforms like Partiful or Mixily (not Paperless Post or Evite) to get people to RSVP, let them know what to expect, and send reminder messages. Ten days before, send a reminder message hyping up the party. About a week before, send another reminder message with a little dossier of who the attendees are. Write something little: "Ryan Hawk hosts a podcast. He wrote a book. He lives in Ohio. Ask him about the ski trip he went on with his family." This serves to make anxious people or socially awkward feel like they're welcome and they have a conversational access point. Practical hosting tips on event day: Label your trash cans and your bathrooms. As people arrive, greet and welcome every single person, and make them a name tag. Write it out right in front of them, first name only. Do not pre-write your name tags. Force collisions through structured activities. Your job as a leader is to go through life collecting the interesting people that you meet and helping them meet each other. Can you become a connector? One way to be a connector is to host these meetups and force the collisions. Lead two or three rounds of introductions at your meetup. Make a little announcement 30 minutes after it starts: "There are so many interesting people here. I want you all to meet each other. We're gonna split into small groups. It might seem silly, but I promise the purpose tonight is for you to talk to as many new people as possible. We're gonna split into small groups of three or four people, and you're gonna go around and tell your life story in two minutes." End on time, especially for weekday events: Host from 6:30 to 8:30 PM with a hard stop on Tuesday or Wednesday nights. People appreciate having an end time because they have responsibilities. Having that end time makes them more likely to RSVP yes and actually attend. "I get more compliments on my party ending on time, and they leave with a positive experience, so they want to return for another." Why every leader needs a personal website. If you have a blue check verified on Instagram, if you post at least once a month on LinkedIn, you probably need your own personal website. It's proactive reputation management. People are out there searching for you on Google and on ChatGPT. It may not happen every single day, but it probably happens every week. Whether it's parents of your kids at school, whether it's new employees, people are googling you. You want to have a personal website to put your best foot forward and make a good impression. Carrd.co to create a simple homepage or cloudflare to set up your domain name. Keep it simple: You don't need a Gary Vee type page. Your page can look like a Google Doc. Feed these large language models your story and bio. My website is plain text, simple homepage. I used to have a fancy design site. Now I'm like, dude, it doesn't matter. 80% of my visitors are on their cell phone and just want to read some text and have some links. The tweet from 2024 that changed everything. The viral Tokyo blind date trip taught me I was ready to share my life with someone. I ended up meeting my wife a couple of months after this experience because I realized I was ready. From a business perspective, one of the most interesting things while that was happening and for about a week afterwards: anyone would accept my phone call. My callbacks were instantaneous. My dial to answer fast. People were reaching out from everywhere. I was like, whoa, is this what it's like to be a celebrity? "I came back to Texas after the trip, ready to truly settle down and find a relationship and meet my now wife." Write like you talk: The best book about storytelling is Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks . Don't try to write a LinkedIn post that says "I'm happy to announce." Would you actually say that to someone? No, you wouldn't. Say it like you talk. Advice on Blind Introductions: Use a double opt-in intro. Reach out to one person first, "Hey, are you taking new clients before I connect you with a friend?" Get both parties' permission, separately - then send the email. Give yourself a Free Day: Dan Sullivan suggests one free day a quarter from work. Make it a weekday, and even get a burner phone so you can't check your work text/emails, so you're completely disconnected from work. The keys to being a great host/MC: Priya Parker does such a great job talking about the theory of being a good leader. The host that doesn't do a great job is the one who's too cool to care. Give explicit instructions to people. You are a ring leader for an event, and you're in charge of everyone's energy levels and keeping the show on the road. Add value before taking value. Never send someone a message, "I'd love to pick your brain," or "I'm looking for a mentor." That is take, take, take. Think about how you can add value first. When you add value first to people, it's some sort of law of reciprocity. They're much more likely to want to help you out or do something in return. Advice for new grads in the AI era: AI and new tools are eating into the ability for companies to hire low-level employees that do grunt work. Learn how to use the tools themselves. Work with small businesses and entrepreneurs where you can make a difference. Develop a writing practice: Matthew Dicks has this activity called Homework for Life where every night you write down some note, some anecdote, something that stuck out for you. It gives you ideas about things to write about. Use AI as an editor, not a writer: Don't outsource your thinking to AI. Use the tools, understand how to use them, but don't outsource your thinking. It'll spit back something decent, but you don't want to outsource your thinking, especially as a leader. Reflection Questions Nick says your first party should be for neighbors, school parents, and LinkedIn connections you haven't seen in a while (not your most impressive contacts). Who are 15-20 people in your life that fall into this "comfortable but haven't connected recently" category that you could invite to a simple cocktail party? He emphasizes "add value before you take value" and never says "I'd love to pick your brain." Think about someone you want to connect with. What's one specific way you could add value to them first before asking for anything in return? Nick hosts events once a quarter to keep weak ties warm instead of trying to have individual coffee meetings with everyone. What's one relationship-building activity you're currently doing inefficiently that could be replaced with a group gathering? Additional Learning #663 - Priya Parker: The Art of Gathering #545: Will Guidara: Unreasonable Hospitality #430 - Matthew Dicks: Change Your Life Through The Power Of Storytelling Audio Timestamps 02:06 Icebreakers and Personal Stories 02:55 The Art of Hosting Events 08:27 Practical Tips for Successful Gatherings 20:16 Mastermind Events and Personal Websites 25:36 The Importance of a Personal Website 26:47 Crafting an Engaging Bio 29:27 The Viral Tokyo Trip 37:04 Living an Interesting Life 41:57 The Art of Hosting and MC'ing 44:50 Advice for New Graduates 46:35 The Power of Writing and Storytelling 49:07 EOPC

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie's List (now called Angi) . She started the company at just 23, going door-to-door as a self-described introvert and non-salesperson, and turned it into a national platform trusted by millions. During our conversation, we discuss what it takes to lead with authenticity and build lasting impact. Key Learnings Lead by listening and showing up. Whether it's knocking on doors as a 23-year-old or meeting employees during office hours as CEO, Angie reminds us that being present, paying attention, and seeking feedback is the heart of leadership. Focus on people and learning. Angie's career filter is simple: Do I like the people I'm working with? Am I learning new things? If yes, keep going. If not, it's time to reconsider. Excellence isn't just about results. It's about the environment and growth around you. Take your work seriously, but not yourself. Confidence, humility, and authenticity go hand in hand. Angie shows us that you can be ambitious and driven without losing sight of the human side of leadership. From Angie... My co-founder, Bill Osterle, came to me when I was a senior in college and said, "Hey, I've got a crazy idea. Your parents are gonna hate it. But why don't we start a business?" I talked to my parents, talked to my friends, and then I ended up talking to my grandfather who was incredibly conservative. He grew up in the Depression, very fiscally responsible. "What do you have to lose? You're 22, your parents aren't going to let you starve, and you're not trying to support a family, so why don't you try it?" I was so taken aback by his response that that comment was probably what pushed me over the edge. I think young people can do this a lot, as we tend to overthink decisions. Sometimes people see things in you that you don't see in yourself, and you've gotta have a little faith. What better time to have a little faith than when you're young and carefree? Work hard, and things will come your way. We started in 1995. It was an offline world. We started as a call-in service and a monthly newsletter. The first name of the company was Columbus Neighbors. We left it like that for a year, and people just didn't get it. They thought the newsletter was the list. We decided to do a rebranding nine months in. We had two options: The List or Jackie's List (Jackie was the mother of one of our investors who knew everybody). At the last minute, Bill said maybe it should be Angie's List. "She does answer the phone." Going door to door was hard. There was a lot of crying, I will be honest. I was selling something that wasn't concrete. "Hey, so when you need a plumber, you're gonna call me and I'm gonna help you find a plumber. And then when you hire someone, you're gonna tell me about it." I viewed it as a numbers game. I need to knock on so many doors every day, and that's just what I'm going to do. Hopefully, if I stay on my pitch and I knock on enough doors, I will sell the right number of memberships. If I was selling one or two memberships a day, that's great. No business was gonna be built on me selling one or two memberships a day, but that's where we were. Sometimes you have to do the hard stuff. Sometimes you have to do the stuff you're not good at, and you have to figure out ways to work around it. Because no matter what you do in your career, there's gonna be stuff you don't love. I broke it down by like, I'm gonna do it for these two hours. I'm a believer in the you can do anything for a year philosophy. I could do anything for an hour a day. So you have to kind of disconnect and treat it that way, as this is like taking my medicine. But you do win every once in a while. And it is fun when you win. It is fun when you sell something. The day Patty gave me her church directory was the best day ever. You gotta celebrate the little wins as well in life. Starting a business is a long journey. It is more of a marathon than a sprint. There's usually not this burst of momentum where everything rolls your way. It's building blocks along the way. If you don't celebrate those little wins and you only focus on, oh, I'm not gonna be happy until we're at 10,000 members, that could be years. You need things to keep you going every day. Patty lived near Bill, so she kinda liked him too, but I think there was a little bit of entrepreneur in Patty. Patty needed nothing from us. She had lived in Columbus her entire life. She had renovated a 1920s house. All she was able to do was give. She knew everybody. But I think she just loved the spirit. You don't know whether that's door seven, door one, door 57, you don't know. But there is typically a breakthrough. Staying true and persistent, you know, there probably weren't a lot of women starting businesses going door to door in 1995, and Patty was like, look, she's got some gumption. She's tackling a business that in many ways is a man's world. Construction is a man's world. Whether that's starting a business or finding the right boss, or finding the right position, that same lesson is the same. I talk to young people, I say, Hey, you can do marketing anywhere. There's any company you can do marketing. When it comes to me... Go where you're gonna be with somebody who believes in you. That's gonna invest in you, because that's actually what's gonna change your trajectory. It's not the name on the company that's gonna change your trajectory. It's actually who's got your back, who's coaching you, that's going to make the biggest difference. The next inflection point for me was when we opened in Cleveland the year after that. It was the first market we had opened from scratch. I remember I went one morning and picked up the newspaper, picked up the Plain Dealer at the bagel shop across the street from my office. And there it was, our little two-by-three ad that said, "Tired of lousy service" with some clip art. I was so excited. I was like, This is amazing. We're in Cleveland. This is gonna be so great. And then I remember telling Bill, "We're gonna get so many calls." And he's like, "We're gonna get so many calls." And I don't think we got any calls that day. The transition from individual contributor to leading others was a horrible transition. It's actually really hard. I tell people that all the time because if you think about who do we promote in companies, we promote really strong individual performers. The skills that make us really good individual performers do not necessarily make us good leaders, managers, et cetera, because it's actually a whole different skillset. I was that overachiever kind of controller, let me just do it type person. You have to actually train yourself to not do those things because no one's ever going to be successful and learn if you're just over there stepping in. The early days when I was young and trying to manage people, not good. Not good at all. I ended up leaving for a year and a half to go to business school. I was pretty burnt out on the business, and I probably would've left the business had I not gone. It gave me a chance to reflect on where I've been and step back. Now I understand, I'm not in the pressure cooker. I can see where I've mistepped. I left when I was 25, three years in. The business had gotten big enoug,h and we decided to bring in a CEO because the 22- 23-year-old was kinda like, maybe we need some leadership here. My co-founder joined full-time at that point and came in as CEO. I joke around, I'm like, take a break. I was still keeping the books. The TV commercial was a hundred thousand dollars, which I had to convince our board on. I was like, look, either we try this or we just close Cleveland because there is no scenario here that we're gonna build a business with door-to-door sales at the rate we're moving. We basically took everything on Cleveland, which was $100,000. I would've been devastated had it failed. People started calling. I was so excited. Then all of a sudden it just kinda went bananas. You realize there's a lot of people with this problem. Doors slammed in my face at that point, not as much of an issue. And then we ended up being in Boston and Washington, and a bunch of other cities. Every time we'd go to a city, I'd fly in, and I would open the paper, and I would get all happy. The TV commercials themselves were funny because I can't do anything for fun anymore without seeing myself in the commercial. I did the first one, and they're like, listen, we're just gonna, we're not gonna tell anybody. It's just gonna go on, you know, we're just gonna do it really quietly. I was like, great. Okay, fine. And then it kind of took off. I had young kids at the time. I wouldn't let us advertise on kids' shows. There was never us on Disney Channel or Nickelodeon because I didn't want that. But the kids would see me on TV. You know, they would see me doing interviews. It happened for them at such a young age that they just kind of thought that's what parents did. I remember one of my kids coming home in middle school and being like, I can't believe you didn't tell me you were famous because it was finally, the friends had grown up enough that they were like, you know who her mom is, right? I became a little more closed off in my personal life as I became more public. Kids deserve to grow up in a world where they get to be kids and not have to deal with that stuff. In our little town, people were like, Oh yeah, she just lives here. And it became not a thing. It became more relevant to me when I was traveling. I started doing office hours. I did it on Fridays leading into the lunchtime, which, let's be honest, was probably one of the squishiest times of productive work. I was with a group of CEOs the other day, and I actually suggested, just try a little. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Just try a little and see where it takes you. The meetings were anything. It was career advice. What should I do? They might have ideas for the business. Hey, we should go into this line. I remember talking one day to our head of legal, and I was like, you know, I don't get open-door media requests anymore. And she kind of chuckled, and she said, That's because you have them all the time. You allow problems to come to you before they're big problems, so they become less of a thing. I'd rather people bring their concerns internally first and listen to 'em and address 'em when you can. They always come internally first, whether it's from an employee, whether it's from a customer. It's just how we handle those things as to whether they blow up into something bigger. I always tried to give them something in return. They come to talk to me and I'd introduce 'em to someone who would help. I'd open a door for them. To this day, I still love talking to customers. I think we live in a very digital age, and I feel like we don't talk to one another very much. People like people. They need to feel heard and have things resolved. I took that office hours idea, and now I do it with customers, so any pro can sign up and talk to me. Gives me a chance to understand, get a pulse on what's going on. The people on the front line are the ones who are making your brand. The marketing team might make some great social posts and some great TV ads. But many times, the people who are manning the phones or your chats are the ones that are leaving a more lasting impression on your brand than anything else. How do you bring the voice of the customer into the organization? Not everybody in our company is a homeowner. How do you make sure they can understand the customer? What's life like as a small business owner, as a pro? What's it like for a homeowner when something goes awry on their worst day? How do I bring those stories to life? I had to convince myself that it was a good use of time. Busy people who have lots of responsibility are active doers, overachievers, to sit back and talk and listen feels like, Okay, am I moving the needle? It feels a bit too squishy. That's why I would treat it just like some of the other things. I will give it an hour a week. Let's see what happens there. I could see the payoff. I can't go spend 30% of my time doing this, but there is a portion of time that I do dedicate. Feedback is a gift and something you should seek out. But yeah, it doesn't always feel great. One of the hardest pieces of advice I got came at a time when we were actually trying to do a transaction. They said, "You have an executive presence issue." And I was like, what? They said, "You're too nice to everybody. It doesn't help the company." I can't tell you how much that comment just killed me. But then I went out and got an executive coach, and I reflected on it. In many ways, it made me a better CEO. I learned that I could be me and I could still be nice and I could be kind, but there are moments I have to be clear. When I'm looking to promote someone or hire someone, knowing your stuff is super important. You don't want this person, who says, I'm the one who always knows the answer. You want someone who can learn from their team. I spent most of my career running marketing, and marketing moves fast. Some of the youngest members of the team are teaching me more things over the years than even some of the more seasoned marketing people. How are you constantly having a view about learning and staying smart in the trade? The ability to just be a good partner or work with people is important. Your job's not to come in and knock down walls. It's actually to build relationships because you can't do everything yourself. How are you at building cross-department relationships? My advice to recent grads: One of my favorites, take your work very seriously. Be good at what you do. Don't always be looking for that next thing that you gotta go tackle. Do what's in front of you first. Don't take yourself too seriously. You come out, you're like, Oh, I have all of these credentials. I should therefore be able to do these things. Sometimes the envelopes need stuffed and we might all do that together. So don't take yourself too seriously. We're gonna do this together. Be open to feedback and to helping others. Don't be afraid when people suggest things that seem totally counter. I think sometimes we get too rigid in our plans. I use Angie's List as an example. I was supposed to be a consultant. I was supposed to go be a business consultant, but then Bill comes in and says, hey, what about this? I could have easily been a business consultant and had a nice life. But I chose that door. A lot of times, people get a little too narrow in their focus and miss opportunities. So stay open to that. For me, it's all about the people you work with. Working with people that you're learning from, that believe in you, that's all that matters. I overindex there. People ask me, how are you still doing this after 30 years? I ask myself two questions, and if I can answer yes to those two questions, I'm in. If I answer no, I'm out. The two things are: Do I like the people I'm working with, and am I learning new things? When you're as long in your career as I am, you have to dedicate time and effort to learning new things so that you don't become that person that is like, we do this because we've always done it this way. Which I think is just like the worst line ever. Reflection Questions Angie's grandfather asked, "What do you have to lose?" when she was 22 and hesitating about starting a business. What decision are you currently overthinking that you might need to just take a leap on while you're young (or young enough) and the risk is manageable? S She says the skills that make us really good individual performers don't necessarily make us good leaders. If you've recently been promoted or are leading others, what specific "doer" habits do you need to let go of so your team can learn and succeed? Angie stayed at Angi for 30 years by asking herself two questions: "Do I like the people I'm working with?" and "Am I learning new things?" How would you honestly answer those two questions about your current role? If the answer to either is no, what does that tell you?

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Patrick Lencioni is the founder of The Table Group and a bestselling author of 14 books, including The Five Dysfunctions of a Team and The 6 Types of Working Genius . Behind his achievements (valedictorian, straight A's, business success) were childhood wounds that drove him to prove himself. Key Learnings "I think I'm really good at anticipating people's objections." I think about what they might be thinking and what I need to put out there. Whether talking interpersonally, giving a speech, writing a book, or on a podcast, I like to think about what the other person might be objecting to. Lean into empathy. I always felt like I needed to prove myself in order to be successful and to feel safe. That's not healthy. "When people tell you they got straight A's and were the valedictorian, the student body president, and got accepted to all the schools they wanted to get into, there's a wound there ." Based on my personality type, I shouldn't have done all those things, but it was out of the need to prove myself. Which wasn't healthy for me. My parents had a hard time being affirming because of their own lives. It wasn't until I was 55 years old that a friend who's a psychologist said, "You, my friend, have childhood wounds you've never dealt with." I got good Christian counseling and realized that the way I grew up, I wasn't supposed to grow up that way. It's common in athletes & CEOs to feel like they haven't done enough. They need to do more. "You're a noun, not a verb. You are enough, and you're not defined by what you do." Great achievements come out of fear, but "true greatness is best when it's only in the things that you're meant to be great at, and that you're doing it out of freedom and passion and love, not out of fear of failure." I remember seeing Tiger Woods on the Tonight Show when he was four years old. He was being groomed to be a golfer when he was four. It's best in life when we discover who God means us to be, then we do the things we're supposed to do and we're okay with not being good at the things we're not supposed to. Are we too affirming now as parents? People who are pretty darn good at everything it's usually because they're doing something out of fear. When I was a kid, my parents came from World War II and the Depression. It was like, hey, you got a roof over your head. There was a lot of suffering, and they weren't really attuned to that. Now we are hyper worried of our own kids suffering. No, suffering is actually good. They need to know they're loved and safe, but they're not gonna be protected from what is necessary for their development. The mistake I made was, oh no, I don't want them to feel like I did. Thankfully at my age, I'm now interacting with my mostly adult children and explaining to them what I did wrong. The Teammate Trifecta - How should we use it?: When I wrote The Five Dysfunctions of a Team right after 9/11, I thought, "That's the book on teamwork." Then we realized you need The Ideal Team Player (humble, hungry, and smart) to hire people that fit on teams. Years later, we came up with Working Genius : Are they in the right seat? 3 steps to building a team : Don't let people on the bus if they're not humble, hungry, and smart. Make sure you have them in the right chair based on their gifts. Then teach them the Five Dysfunctions. Pat's Two Working Geniuses: Invention and Discernment "Invention means I love to come up with ideas out of nothing. Discernment means I love evaluating things, curating things. God wired me to do that kind of thing." When people say, "Pat, we have five minutes, and we need a new idea," I just take a deep breath and smile. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Every new idea I've come up with has been in the field, working with people . I asked Jim Collins, "Jim, you do all this research with data. I go into a room with leaders and just think, What's going on here?" He said, "Pat, that's just as valid as what I do. That's called field research and face validity." What is Pat terrible at? Finishing things. People say, "Well you finished 14 books." And that's because I had the help of others to make me finish those. I got a 4.0 in high school. That wasn't my personality. I went to every class in college, never blew off classes. My personality is the kind that should blow off classes that don't matter. But I was so afraid of failing and disappointing my parents and teachers that I did anything they asked. That was not natural; that was fear-based. Can we use fear as useful fuel? "You can use it in the short term, but if you're doing it in your life, no." "We should celebrate what other peo

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: David Adelman is the CEO of Campus Apartments, founder of Darco Capital, and co-owner of the Philadelphia 76ers. During our conversation, we discussed how losing a basketball bet at age 11 changed his life, investing his bar mitzvah money in real estate, becoming CEO at 25, his grandfather's Holocaust survival story, and why it gives him perspective on struggle, embracing failure, the trade-offs of building something excellent, and what he looks for when hiring leaders. Key Learnings "Why not me? Why not now?" David's mantra cuts through all the overthinking and excuses we make. When he saw other people building national real estate portfolios, he didn't wonder if it was possible—he asked why he couldn't do it. Stop waiting for permission. Stop waiting for the perfect moment. Ask yourself: why not me? Why not now? Make mistakes, just not the same one twice . David doesn't expect perfection from himself or his team. He expects learning. Fail fast, fail forward, but don't repeat the same failure. That's not growth—that's negligence. Embrace the suck, but evolve through it. David's grandfather survived the Holocaust after his wife and children were murdered. He escaped, joined the resistance, and rebuilt his life from nothing. When David thinks about that, he says: "No matter what, I don't know struggle." That's perspective. Most of what we call struggle is just discomfort. Understanding that doesn't make your challenges disappear... It makes them manageable. If your grandfather could survive the unthinkable, you can handle the hard day in front of you. At age 11, David challenged family friend Alan Horwitz to a basketball game and made a wager. Horwitz didn't let the kid win, and David lost his basketball, football, and baseball glove. To get them back, he had to go to Campus Apartments every Saturday to sweep sawdust and stack lumber. This losing bet became his entry into a billion-dollar career. At 13, David gambled his $2,000 bar mitzvah money by investing it with Horwitz in a building at 45th and Pine Streets in Philadelphia - a property his company still owns today. B y age 17, he bought his first solely owned investment property. David was accepted into Temple University Beasley School of Law but chose to become a Property Manager at Campus Apartments instea d. At age 25 in 1997, he became CEO of Campus Apartments. His grandfather, Sam Wasserman, was captured by the Nazis in 1942 and taken to the Sobibor concentration camp, where his wife and two children were immediately executed. Wasserman escaped during an organized revolt, joined the resistance, was wounded in battle, and was cared for by a woman named Sophie, who became his second wife. David said, " I feel a deep connection to him and what he went through. It's more like a sense of duty to honor him." David says, "I bet on jockeys, not horses. I ask, 'If the thing fails, would we support them again?' To be clear, a lot of our [investments] are going to fail.' He learned the hard way: "Friends would say, 'Here's a deal, put in X amount,' so you know, it's $250,000 or $500,000 or $1 million. I realized very quickly that it's probably a money-losing prospect to just invest in a friend of a friend's idea or because someone at your country club is investing in it." "It's called working off your debt." I literally lost everything to my "Uncle" Alan in 30 minutes when I was 11. My baseball glove, football, basketball, even my bank book. Every Saturday, I had to stack lumber and sweep sawdust to get one item back. Two years later, at my Bar Mitzvah, my parents asked if I wanted to give my gift money to my grandfather, who was good at picking stocks. I said no, I want to give it to Uncle Alan and buy real estate. At 13, I drove around with him, picked the biggest building he owned, hand

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes Join tens of thousands of leaders pursuing excellence: https://ryanhawk.kit.com/profile This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Priya Parker is a master facilitator, conflict resolution expert, and author of the bestselling book The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters . Priya has spent decades facilitating difficult conversations in boardrooms, communities, and conflict zones. In this conversation, she reveals the mechanics of meaningful gathering and why most of us are doing it wrong. Key Learnings A facilitator is interested in the life of a group. I think of facilitation as working with people who are interested in the infrastructure of three or more people who need to come together and are ideally changed for the better by what transpires between them. A facilitator thinks deeply about how to set up the conditions to increase the likelihood that transformation happens. Great facilitators are obsessed with language. There's listening to make someone feel heard, but the difference between green facilitators and seasoned ones is an obsession and ability to hear, recall, and play with language. You have to understand what people are actually saying and be able to reflect it back in ways that unlock new meaning. Understanding power is essential to facilitation. You need to know how decisions are being made, who is talking more than others, when to allow for that, and what your own relationship is to holding the group. When do you shut up? When do you pull people out? When do you push back? All of this is fundamentally about understanding power dynamics. I'm a third-generation ostrich. On both sides of my family, when conflict arises, we stick our heads in the sand. Nothing to see here, folks. But I've cultivated the ability to hold heat. Even now, when facilitating a reckoning and the heat rises, my palms still get sweaty, I can feel my heart racing, blood rushing to my cheeks. But I've learned how to stay present with that discomfort. Counterintuitively, having deep empathy for people who want to flee makes me more effective. "90% of the success of what happens in the room, and as a facilitator, happens before anybody arrives." This is what my mentor Randa Slim taught me, and it's absolutely true. The construction of the house happens before anyone gets there. Dr. Hal Saunders changed everything for me. He was an American diplomat who served five presidential administrations and was part of the Camp David Accords. After leaving government, he realized that while governments can create peace treaties, people's perceptions of each other on the ground haven't necessarily changed. He trained me as a teenager in sustained dialogue, and I learned facilitation the way it should be learned—through apprenticeship. Even in his seventies and eighties, he always believed he had something to learn. The first questions people ask you signify what they value. When I arrived at the University of Virginia, people kept asking, "What are you?" I learned quickly that they meant racially. My mother, an anthropologist, had taught me that the first questions a community asks reveal what matters most to them. Race was clearly very important there. I made myself a conflict resolution facilitator. Growing up between two vastly different households—toggling every two weeks between a vegetarian, Buddhist home where the word "God" was never mentioned and an evangelical Christian home where we never ate before saying Grace. I became deeply interested in when and why and how people come together, what they think of as normal, how they create and change cultures, and how they come apart. Your highest real estate is when people are together in the same place at the same time. <span style= "font

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: Nicholas Thompson is the CEO of The Atlantic and former editor-in-chief of WIRED. He's the author of the best-selling book (and one of my favorites of the year), The Running Ground. Nick shares why great leaders must balance being decisive with staying open to being wrong, how to build teams that challenge your thinking without creating chaos, and why the most important skill for the next decade is knowing what questions only humans can answer. Key Learnings Consistency Over Intensity Creates Results - If you go out there every day, six or seven days a week, and a couple days you push yourself really hard, you get faster. There's no two ways about it. If you don't do that, you don't get faster. It's a very good reminder that you can get a lot done if you just go and allot time to pushing yourself. Recommendation letter written by the Stanford faculty about Nick's dad to be a Rhodes Scholar : "Scotty Thompson is the kind of young man that comes along only once in approximately ten years. I cannot recall ever having known a student who possessed the same combination of intelligence, creativity, energy, drive, and dedication. He has attempted more, achieved more, than anyone we have studied– including some who now hold high office. He is generally conceded among those who have observed the student body since World War II to be the outstanding leader of the era. I think it likely that in the entire history of Stanford campus life, he has had no near rival since Herbert Hoover as an undergraduate." Also about Nick's Dad : Tracy Bennett, one of his graduate students, said, "He was flamboyant, gently endearing, annoyingly arrogant, piercingly intelligent, entertaining, and more. I'd never met a man, nor had a professor, who was clearly so brilliant and at the same time so precariously insecure." His grandfather, Frank Thompson, placed second in the Southern California extemporaneous speaking contest held at Whittier College. First place was Richard Nixon. Parenting — "Nothing makes me more worried about failure than parenting." "Parenting is suffused with regrets, confusion, and mistakes. But when I run by, I know my children are rooting for me to succeed with infinite love and enthusiasm." Running hard... Pushing yourself. Why do it? "Discipline builds discipline. Discipline is cumulative." Sometimes You Have to Trick Yourself - I ran 10:48 because the track was bigger than I thought, and I didn't realize how fast I was going. If I had known I was running at a 5:23 pace, I would've shut down. My body would've started to hurt. Sometimes you can't let yourself know what you're actually doing, or you'll get scared. Hiring at The Atlantic - The people he hires at The Atlantic share four must-have attributes: A spirit of generosity. A force of ideas. They're relentlessly hard workers. And they have an edge: an anxiety about getting great work done. That last one stuck with me. The best people aren't just talented... They're driven by a productive anxiety to do work that matters. Becoming CEO of The Atlantic: The Search & Selection: The Atlantic conducted a yearlong search after President Bob Cohn left in fall 2019. When owners Laurene Powell Jobs and David Bradley announced Thompsont in December 2020, they said "Nick is singular; we've seen no one like him" and that he brought "a surround-sound coverage of relevant experience." Move at an Uncomfortable Pace - You don't get anything you want by being comfortable. If you're working in a way that feels easy and setting deadlines where everything seems smooth, you're not growing, you're not learning, you're not getting there. That's a lesson from running, and it's a good lesson for work. Set A

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Suzy Welch is known for co-founding the Jack Welch Management Institute and writing bestsellers like 10-10-10: A Life Transforming Idea . Her career includes roles as an editor-in-chief for Harvard Business Review , a crime reporter, and a professor. She teaches at NYU and is the best-selling author of Becoming You . Key Learnings Purpose Requires Realism, Not Just Passion - Everyone wants to be the drummer in Disturbed, but that guy's good at drumming. My whole methodology is about realism. You have to know what your values are, what your interests are, but you better be good at it or forget it. Otherwise, it's a hobby. Values Are Choices, Not Virtues - Most people confuse values and virtues. Virtues are things like integrity, courage, and thankfulness... Behaviors we all should have more of. Values are choices about how you want to live, work, and relate. It's a value if it would drive who you married, what job you took, and where you went on vacation. There are 16 Measurable Values - Values exist on a continuum like a DNA profile. Scope reflects how exciting a life you want. Radius is how much you want to change the world systemically. Belovedness is how important an intimate relationship is to you. Work centrism is whether you love work for work's sake or if it's just a means to an end. Men Over 32 Value Romantic Relationships Most - We just got data showing that for men over the age of 32, belovedness is their number one value. It's much lower for women. Only 50% of people have family centrism in their top five values—we assume everyone shares our values, but they don't. Your Authenticity Gap Reveals Your Pain - You could hold the value of scope as number one, but not be able to live it right now because of your job or family situation. That gap between what you value and what you're living—we call that your authenticity gap. If you've got a big one, you know it because it hurts. Gen Z's Top Value Is Self-Care - 75% of Gen Z have self-care, wellbeing, pleasure, and leisure as their top value. Their top three are self-care, authentic self-expression, and helping others. Meanwhile, hiring managers want achievement, scope, and work centrism. The overlap is 2%. Aptitudes Are Your Brain's Dominant Hand - We have nine cognitive aptitudes preset by age 15. Are you a generalist or a specialist? A future focuser or a present focuser? A brainstormer or someone who comes up with one fully baked idea per year? It's painful to be a generalist in a specialist job. Your Personality Is How The World Experiences You - Your personality is not the list of adjectives you write about yourself. It's how the world experiences you. When I did my 360 feedback, people said I was the hurricane, not the calm at the center. I had to learn to communicate better the thoughts I had, and learn to be less chaotic. Everyone Writes Themselves As The Hero - A police lieutenant once told me: everyone writes the story of their life with themselves at the center as the hero. No matter what story we tell ourselves, we always cast ourselves as the hero. That's why self-awareness is so hard and why we need testing, not just self-reflection. The Aperture Problem: Kids Only Know Five Jobs - When kids come out of high school, they only know about five jobs, two of which are their parents. By college it goes up to seven. By grad school, MBAs are thinking about two or three options—banking, consulting, or tech. There are 135 industries and thousands of types of work nobody tells them about. Great Leaders Don't Do It For The Money - I've been blessed

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: James Clear is the author of one of the most influential books of our generation, Atomic Habits . He's sold over 25 million copies worldwide and has helped millions of people transform their lives through the power of small changes. We brought the podcast to the campus of Ohio University, where we recorded live in front of 250 of the most impressive college students I've ever met. Notes: I loved the Morgan Housel moment - It was cool to see James' reaction to it (you can watch it on YouTube.com/RyanHawk ). Morgan said, "I have absolutely not a single cell of envy for him. Because he is the nicest guy you will ever meet. You will not meet a nicer human than James Clear. You will not meet someone as successful as he is and as humble as he is. He is a saint in my life. And because of that, I adore every bit of this guy, so I cannot envy him. I am just inspired by his success, full stop." We should all strive to be that for the people in our lives. Your WHO - "Every opportunity in life comes through a person. Relationships are usually the most important thing. If you want to achieve more, there is a relationship that can unlock better results. If you want to make a meaningful contribution, helping others is a great way to do it. If you sim Willpower – 'People with tremendous self-control aren't that different from those who struggle. They're simply better at structuring their lives in a way that doesn't require heroic willpower.' It's not about determination, it's about design. That's liberating. Fall in Love with the Process - "When you fall in love with the process rather than the product, you don't have to wait to give yourself permission to be happy. You can be satisfied anytime your system is running. And a system can be successful in many different forms, not just the one you first envision." Make It Obvious, Easy, Attractive, Satisfying - The four laws of behavior change: make good habits obvious and bad habits invisible, make good habits easy and bad habits difficult, make good habits attractive and bad habits unattractive, make good habits satisfying and bad habits unsatisfying. Use the Two-Minute Rule - Scale any habit down to something that takes two minutes or less. Want to read more? Read one page. Want to run a marathon? Put on your running shoes. The goal is to master showing up and make the entry point as easy as possible. Standardize Before You Optimize - You can't improve a habit that doesn't exist. Master the art of showing up before worrying about optimization. Build consistency first, then work on increasing the dose or improving performance. Track Your Habits Visually - I use a paper clip strategy: start each day with 120 paper clips in one jar, move one to another jar each time I complete a writing session. Visual tracking provides clear evidence of progress and makes the habit satisfying. Habits Need to Match Your Personality - There's no one-size-fits-all approach. Morning people and night owls need different strategies. Work with your natural tendencies, not against them. Choose habits and contexts that align with who you already are. Create Commitment Devices - Make bad habits difficult through commitment devices. I had my assistant change my social media passwords every Monday and only give them back on Fridays. This eliminated mindless scrolling during my productive work hours. Focus on Systems, Not Goals - Winners and losers have the same goals. The difference is their systems. Goals are about the results you want to achieve; systems are about the processes that lead to those results. Fall in love with the process, not the outcome. Build Habits That Align With Your Desired Identity - I wanted to be a writer, so I wrote every Monday and Thursday for yea

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Derek Sivers is the founder of CD Baby and author of " Hell Yeah or No " and " Useful Not True." He shared how he graduated from Cal Berkeley in two years instead of four because the "standard pace for chumps" - a lesson that shaped his entire career of institutional skepticism and unconventional thinking. From creating viral shipping emails to understanding why explorers make bad leaders, Derek shares why being busy means being out of control, how your first thought is an obstacle to your best work, and why you can't predict what the world will want from you until you try everything and listen closely to what it's telling you. Notes: No Speed Limit – Most things are paced so the slowest person can keep up. If you're driven and motivated, you can go so much faster than the standard pace. I graduated from Berkeley in two years by learning four semesters of harmony in one hour. "The standard pace is for chumps. You can do so much better than that." Question the Standard Process – When someone says you must go through usual channels or something will take a certain time, assume there's probably a hack. Develop institutional skepticism - there's usually a better way than how most people do it. Create Opportunities, Don't Wait for Them – You don't have to wait until a company is hiring. If you can see how to benefit them, walk in and show them what you can do for free first. Alan Tepper made Warner Brothers more money than anyone that year by just showing up with a plan. Make Everything Valuable to Others – The starving artist spends all their time on work valuable to them but not to others. Use money as a neutral measure - if you can make money with your art, it ensures what you're doing is valuable to other people. "It's almost impossible to predict what the world will want from you... Keep yourself out there and listen closely to what the world is telling you it wants from you." Stand Out by Being Different – Don't imitate what everyone else is doing. I wrote a silly shipping email in 10 minutes that became one of the most viral emails ever mentioned in business books. Ask yourself constantly: What has nobody done before? The First Follower Creates the Movement – We focus on the shirtless dancing guy, but the first follower is what made everything happen. Until then, people kept their distance from the freak. If you find someone doing something great, follow them and show others how to follow. Every Sentence Must Matter – My books are 90-100 pages, but start as 1,000-page rough drafts. I spend 1-2 years full-time chopping every sentence that doesn't absolutely need to be there. "I'm not gonna put a single sentence out into the world that doesn't need to be there." Make every word count - eliminate everything that doesn't add value. Hell Yeah or No is Context-Dependent – This tool is for when you're overwhelmed with options and need to raise the bar. Straight out of college, say yes to everything because opportunities are like lottery tickets. Once something rewards you, then say no to other things and double down. Busy Means Out of Control – "Busy to me implies out of control. You're busy if you've let other people shove shit into your schedule." Leave space instead of filling it - that time to think is what creates valuable insights others don't have time to develop. Your First Thought is an Obstacle – Don't honor the thought that came first. In brainstorming, acknowledge the first idea, then keep going - don't stop at two or three. Even silly ideas can seed great ones you'd never reach without

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. www.InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My guest: Dave Berke is a retired US Marine Corps Officer, TOPGUN Instructor, and now a leadership instructor and speaker with Echelon Front, where he serves as Chief Development Officer. As a F/A-18 pilot, he deployed twice from the USS John C Stennis in support of combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. He spent three years as an Instructor Pilot at TOPGUN where he served as the Training Officer, the senior staff pilot responsible for the conduct of the TOPGUN course. Notes: July 2001: Plans Don't Survive Contact - Dave's Top Gun graduation exercise as flight lead. Wingman yells, "Showtime one-one break right!" - an F-5 snuck into formation. Dave was staring at the radar instead of looking out, had to fall out of formation, and ended up at the back instead of leading from the front. Mission successful, but nothing like he planned. Dave: "The outcome was still really good... except it was nothing like I thought it was going to be." Lesson: You're planning for the success of the outcome, not how you're going to do it. The most important attribute in a leader is humility . To be effective, you must be able to listen, learn, be flexible, and admit you're wrong sometimes. One of the biggest issues they deal with when working with leaders is ego and/or the inability to be humble. As leaders, we need to be self-aware enough to realize when our ego is getting the best of us. And surrounding ourselves with people who will help us know when that is happening as well. Be Fluid with Plans, Deliberate with Outcomes - Be really fluid and loose with plans, but deliberate about aligning the team on outcomes. Dave grew up as a control freak, OCD planner. Dave: "In life, it's just not how life works... If you can align on the mission and outcome, and you are very open-minded that there are a lot of different ways to get there, you're far more likely to be successful." The military saying, "The enemy gets a vote." Ryan's quarterback coach after an interception: "He's on scholarship too, you know?" Process: How You Create It Matters Most - Process is important, but how you create it matters most. If you agree on the outcome, the conversation should be less about agreement, more about "When you talk about step one, what are you thinking? How does this lead to step two?" The process has to be organic. When you create it, you're more likely to maneuver around challenges. Book Dedication: Chris and Kat - Book dedicated to Corporal Chris Leon and his mother, Kat. Chris was a radio operator on Dave's 13-man Anglo team. June 20, 2006, Chris was killed by an enemy sniper in Iraq - first Anglican Marine killed there. Dave's son is Matthew Leon Burke - took Chris's last name. Chris's mom Kat is Aunt Kat to Dave's family. Dave: "I always say I really deep down wish I didn't know Kat, because that would've meant Chris came home and life just went on. But that's not what happened." Chris taught bravery. Kat taught strength. Top Gun Reality: It's About the Team - 1986 Top Gun most impactful movie on Dave's life at 14. But the movie depicts a lone wolf. Marine Corps teaches: Your contribution to the team matters most. A really good pilot who's self-centered will do more damage than a slightly less capable pilot who's a real team player. Dave: "If there's ever a team sport, it's going into combat... It's not about you. It's about the team." Trust: Action, Not Description - Echelon codifies relationships: Trust, respect, listening, influence. Trust is the cornerstone. Dave: "If you don't trust me, I could be good at so many things. If there is a trust gap, there's going to be a problem in the relationship and team." Trust is action you take. Ego: The Universal Challenge - When Echelon works with companies, challenges are almost always connected to ego. Dave: "Our egos tend to wreak havoc at each level

Go to www.LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global . If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My Guest: Helen Lewis is a staff writer at The Atlantic and author of The Genius Myth: Great Ideas Don't Come from Lone Geniuses . Notes: Shakespeare: Talent + Luck + Timing - William Shakespeare died in 1616 at age 52, celebrated but not yet immortal. His icon status required massive luck: friends published the First Folio (saving King Lear), then 50 years later, Charles II reopened England's theaters after Puritan closures and needed content. Companies turned to Shakespeare's IP, adapting his work (including changing tragedies to happy endings). Helen: "If anyone deserves to be called a genius, it's him. But he died as a successful man of his age. Scenius Over Genius - Brian Eno coined "scenius" - places that are unusually productive and creative. Shakespeare moved from Warwickshire to London for the theaters and playwrights. Helen: "You don't just have to be Leonardo, you also need Florence... Where do you find the coolest, most interesting bleeding edge of your field?" Modern example: Joe Rogan's Comedy Mothership in Austin created an alternative to LA/NYC for comedians like Shane Gillis and Tony Hinchcliffe. Ryan: "Put yourself in rooms where you feel like the dumbest person... force you to rise up, think differently, work harder." Tim Berners-Lee vs. Elon Musk - Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web. Has knighthood, lives an ordinary life, kids named Alice and Ben. Most people have never heard of him. Elon Musk has a lot of children, talks about his genes needing to live on, and lives a very public life. Helen: "We overrate the self-promoters, the narcissists. We demand oddness and specialness... We don't call modest people geniuses because they're too normal." Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) and Sam Bankman-Fried (FTX) exploited this - looked like a genius (Steve Jobs cosplay, messy math prodigy) but stood on houses of cards. Trauma and the "I'll Show You" Engine - Matthew Parris wrote Fracture after noticing how many "great lives" had traumatic childhoods - loss of parents, being unloved, bullied. Helen: "I don't think that's necessarily genius in objective achievement. It's more like a hunger for recognition or fame... a kind of 'I'll show all of you' engine." Stephen Hawking on IQ - Stephen Hawking: "I have no idea. People who boast about their IQ are losers." The Flynn Effect shows average IQ rose over the 20th century through better nutrition, schooling, and living conditions. Higher IQ correlates with better outcomes. But at the top end, every IQ point ≠ is one success point. Christopher Langan (the highest IQ guy) thinks he has a theory to overturn Einstein, and that Bush did 9/11 to cover it up. No history of achievement. Helen: "Smart people don't always prosper. You need the gears that connect the engine to the wheels on the road." Conspiracy Theories: Narcissism as Driver - Narcissism is the most correlated personality trait with conspiracy thinking. Helen: "The sheeple, the NPCs think this, but I alone have seen the truth. It positions you as the protagonist of reality." The Internet is a "confirmation bias engine." But conspiracies are sometimes true (Epstein's corrupt plea deal), which is why conspiracy thinking persists. Researcher Karen Stenner's solution: Get back to depoliticized conspiracies like Bigfoot, crop circles, Area 51 - harmless things that got people outside instead of "shoot up a pizza restaurant." The Beatles: Finiteness Creates Legend - Psychologist Han Isaac said geniuses should either die before 30 or live past 80. Middle is "eh." The Beatles had both: a short career that ended definitively, then John Lennon was shot at 40, frozen in time. Paul McCartney lives on, performs at Glastonbury with John's vocals. Craig Brown: "The Rolling Stones just go on and on, but there's never as much of the Beatles as you want." Quality Over Quantity - Helen: "Incentive now is producing constantly