Despite its reputation among many on the political left, the United States has welcomed more immigrants than any other nation in history. Today, the U.S. is home to more immigrants than any other country in the world. Even amid a heated political battle over the future of immigration, it’s undeniable that a core part of America’s national identity is its image as “a nation of immigrants.” Many Americans proudly trace their ancestry to those who migrated to the U.S. in pursuit of the American Dream. Most take pride in knowing that people around the world dream of building a life in the USA. But immigration in the U.S. has always been complicated. Today, the country is also home to the largest population of unlawful migrants on Earth. In recent years, the U.S. southern border with Mexico has been cited as one of the most porous and chaotic in the world. Additionally, the U.S. has the most backlogged immigration courts globally. Our episode today examines how the U.S. immigration system became so stubbornly, frustratingly, and dangerously chaotic—from legal loopholes exploited by cartels to the failed legislation of the 1990s aimed at curbing illegal migration, and from the enduring challenges of enforcement to the growing calls for building a wall and mass deportations. Our guests are David Leonhardt, Senior Writer for The New York Times and author of Ours Was a Shining Future, and John Sandweg, former head of ICE under President Barack Obama. As always, we’d love to hear from you. Send us an email at
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