Show full transcript 0:51 Chilling crime cases are mysterious, but finding coverage shouldn't be. 0:55 With the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you have options and can personalize your plan 1:00 to help create an affordable price, so you can get back to cracking all of life's bigger 1:05 cases. 1:06 Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with 1:10 the Personal Price Plan. 1:12 Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. 1:14 Head to StateFarm.com to get a quote. 1:16 Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state, coverage options are selected 1:20 by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. 1:27 This October you're about to be asking, who is Other Mommy? The new horror movie from Blumhouse, 1:32 executive producer of Obsession, and James Bond producer of Backrooms, hits theaters October 9th. 1:38 Other Mommy will keep audiences on the edge of their seats as Academy Award winner Jessica 1:43 Chastain stars in dual roles. She leaves everyone guessing on, just who is Other Mommy? 1:49 It's been a great year for horror films and other mommy feels like it's going to continue on that path 1:54 Your mommy won't save you this October other mommy releases in theaters October 9th 2:01 Hey weirdos, I'm Alina. I'm ash and this is morbid 2:05 Do this let's do this we're in part two. So I feel like we should just get right into it 2:24 Yeah, like I said part two is gonna be a little bit shorter, but there was like a lot of pre story to go through in part one 2:31 But we're going to get into some more shocking or, you know, not even more shocking details 2:36 but talk about those a little more in depth and then obviously the trial. 2:41 Yeah. 2:41 Get into what the hell happened here. 2:43 Yeah. 2:43 Which I don't even really know. 2:45 So nobody knows. 2:47 No. 2:48 Truly. 2:48 The law does. 2:50 But Alfred please are so confusing to me because the law knows but they don't know 2:55 kind of. 2:56 I think the most, the infamous one is the West Memphis Three. 2:59 Yeah, I actually I put a little note at the bottom in case anybody's like confused so that we could talk about it a little bit 3:05 because that's one that I fully believe is 3:08 They're innocent. Yeah, that's just me 100% I agree. We've gone over that. We you know 3:12 If you know, you know our stance. I but with this one, I don't know. Yeah, I could go either way on this one 3:18 So here's the thing when we last left off there were you know, like I said shocking details emerging in the case one of which was 3:25 Hard to swallow for those who even previously had every confidence in Michaels in a sense 3:29 over a decade earlier while living in Germany, 3:32 Michael's friend Elizabeth Ratliff 3:33 was found dead at the bottom of a staircase in her home. 3:36 Yeah. 3:37 And Michael was the last person to see her alive. 3:40 Unfortunate. 3:40 And also now was the guardian of her two children. 3:44 Yes. 3:45 So once this came to light and, you know, 3:47 came more out in the public, 3:48 not only were friends and family members 3:50 who didn't know that fact shaken up, 3:52 but the district attorney's office 3:54 also thought it was pretty suspicious 3:56 that two women had died under very similar circumstances 4:00 while in the presence of Michael Peterson. 4:02 Yeah, or at least around the time they were in the presence of him. 4:06 So that October, Durham District Attorney Jim Hardin petitioned a judge in Texas 4:10 for an order to exhume Elizabeth Ratliff's body. 4:14 Damn. 4:14 And he said it was in an effort to find out whether there are other similarities in the deaths. 4:19 Now, it wasn't just the Court of Law and the Court of Public Opinion 4:22 that were influenced by these new details about Michael Peterson's life. 4:25 If, after so many shocking revelations about this man that they thought they all knew very 4:29 well, unfortunately, the cracks in the Peterson's family bond were also beginning to show and 4:35 form. 4:36 After Standing Wire's stepfather for nearly a year, the lingering questions about extramarital 4:41 affairs, autopsy reports, and now another woman's death became too much for Caitlyn 4:47 Atwater to ignore. 4:48 And late October, Caitlyn filed actually a wrongful death lawsuit against Michael 4:53 in civil court. 4:54 alleging that he did intentionally, maliciously, willfully, and wantonly assault Kathleen Peterson, thereby causing her death. 5:03 Damn. 5:03 Yeah. 5:04 She declined to speak to the press about the case at the time, but Michael didn't hesitate to provide a response. 5:09 He said, 5:10 I'm really really saddened that the loving family that Kathleen worked so hard on for 13 years has been ripped apart. 5:16 The police have gotten to Caitlin and gave her their side. 5:19 I'm sorry for Margaret, Martha, Clayton, and Todd, 5:22 because not only have they lost a mother, 5:23 now they've lost their sister as well. 5:25 It is a family disaster. 5:27 Oh, damn. 5:28 Which is really fucking sad. 5:29 Yeah, and it's like, you can't blame anybody 5:33 for looking at the pieces of the puzzle 5:36 and coming to a conclusion. 5:38 No, that's what- 5:39 Like, that's- 5:39 You do. 5:40 You know what I mean? 5:41 like it's like I can't, I can understand all the sides of this, like I can understand the people 5:47 that are still standing by him and I can understand how she would decide she wasn't going to anymore. 5:53 Yeah, like I can understand all of that. And you also have to understand that like, 5:58 you know, Kathleen may have played a stepmother role and Clayton and Todd and 6:03 Margaret and Martha's lives, but she was Caitlyn's mother. She is Caitlyn's mother. 6:07 That's the thing. So that is like a, you know, that's a different level. Yeah, you know. 6:12 So Michael did his best to continue framing himself as an unfair victim. But if he was hoping 6:17 to gain more support from the public, his behavior the following month did not do much 6:21 to win him any new supporters. Uh-oh. In mid-November, just a few weeks after Caitlyn's $10,000 6:27 civil suit against Michael was made public, the press started reporting an even larger 6:31 inter-family fight, this time over Kathleen's life insurance policy. 6:36 Oh, that's when things get yucka. 6:39 You're also just handing them a motive that they didn't previously have on a silver platter. 6:44 Sure are. 6:45 So despite having been indicted for her murder, Michael argued that he should be entitled 6:50 to the $1.4 million payout, which because of his status would otherwise go to her 6:57 daughter and her ex-husband Fred Atwater. The thing was, Kathleen had made Fred and 7:03 Caitlin the beneficiaries of the policy, and she hadn't changed the policy prior to her death. 7:08 But Michael was arguing that, quote, Kathleen made her feelings very clear when she divorced Fred, 7:13 inferring that she wanted nothing more to do with Fred, so he said that he should be entitled 7:17 to the money. Oof. That it gets yucka when you do that. It sure does. And maybe to some, 7:26 that might have seemed like a trivial matter, but for the prosecution, like I just said, 7:31 it was one more potential motive for Kathleen's murder. 7:34 Oh yeah. 7:34 At the time of her death, Michael, like I said, was in negotiations to sell the film 7:39 rights to his last novel or his latest novel, but that deal was only bringing in $600,000. 7:45 And obviously I'm only saying only because Kathleen's job was potentially at risk at 7:50 this time, and Michael had no regular income. 7:52 So, a $1.4 million payout looked like a pretty decent motive. 7:57 Yeah. 7:58 Would that $600,000 aside? 7:59 Of course. 8:00 Now, throughout the investigation, Margaret and Martha had stood by Michael and completely 8:05 believed his innocence. 8:06 So, when the district attorney requested to have their mother's remains exhumed for 8:10 a second autopsy, they were vocally resistant. 8:13 Margaret told a reporter in February 2003, my first gut reaction was to say no. 8:18 There are no words to explain how I feel, but we knew that dad had nothing to hide. 8:23 But after giving it some thought, the two sisters decided to give their approval for 8:27 the exhumation, reasoning that if nothing else, it would just put to rest rumors about their 8:32 mother's murder at the hands of who the men they now considered their father. 8:37 But unfortunately what they ended up with was the exact opposite of what they'd intended. 8:42 In mid-April 2003, Elizabeth Ratliff's remains were exhumed from her grave in Texas, and 8:49 then shipped to the state medical examiner's office in Durham, where a second autopsy was 8:53 performed to determine cause of death. 8:55 And this just gets so... 8:57 I can't imagine your family member being buried and exhumed and reburied and re-autopsied 9:04 and... 9:05 That's just a lot. 9:06 That just like opens up a whole new attitude of grief to rest. 9:11 really put it to rest. So when when Elizabeth's death was initially reported in 1985, it was 9:18 appeared it was believed to have been the result of natural causes of brain aneurysm. 9:22 So there was no reason for the individual performing the autopsy to suspect foul playback 9:26 then. And on top of that, the individual conducting the autopsy actually had no experience 9:31 with homicide cases up to that point. I'm sorry, what? Yeah. So he might not have recognized 9:38 as signs of murder, even if it was suspected at the time, which again, it wasn't. But that's 9:44 interesting. After conducting as thorough an autopsy as was possible on Elizabeth Ratliff's 9:49 remains, Dr. Deborah Raddisch concluded that Elizabeth Ratliff's death was inconsistent 9:55 with the fall down the stairs. Rather, it is indicative of multiple blunt force impacts, 10:02 either from blows to the head caused by a blunt object, or by the head being forcibly struck 10:07 against a hard surface. 10:10 Well, that sounds familiar. 10:12 It sure does. 10:14 In other words, Elizabeth's injuries were remarkably similar to Kathleen's injuries. 10:20 The doctor continued, it is my further opinion that these injuries were incurred while Mrs. 10:24 Ratliff was alive and are of sufficient severity to have caused her death. 10:32 Holy shit. 10:32 it. As far as Dr. Raddish could tell, the intercranial hemorrhages initially identified 10:38 as Elizabeth's cause of death were the result of blunt force trauma, not natural causes, 10:43 like previously believed. Shit. Yeah. What a fucking, like that would be a gut punch. 10:52 Now the thing that confuses me a little bit, and I figured like you might be able to 10:56 to explain this to me. 10:58 So, because it says in the quote, 11:01 like could have been blows to the head 11:04 by the head being forcibly struck against a hard surface. 11:08 If you're falling down the stairs 11:10 is your head not being struck 11:11 against a hard surface multiple times? 11:13 Not forcibly. 11:14 Forcibly would indicate that somebody 11:16 was forcing your head into a. 11:19 Okay. 11:20 If you're just falling, 11:21 it's a passive hit when you're falling without someone. 11:24 and forcibly it would be taking your head 11:27 and slamming it forcibly into there's like more inertia 11:30 and falling down, falling somewhere is a passive act. 11:33 Gotcha. 11:34 Yeah. 11:34 All right. 11:35 Well, that changed things. 11:37 Sure does. 11:38 So she didn't have the authority 11:40 to change the initial findings 11:41 because it was a German case. 11:43 Yeah. 11:43 But Dr. Raddish did indicate that if she did have the, 11:47 had the authority to do so, 11:48 she would revise the cause of death to homicide. 11:51 Wow. 11:52 Yeah. 11:52 That's a big statement. 11:53 It is. Now, by that time, Margaret and Martha Ratliff had already lost so much. 11:59 Their father had died in combat, their mother had died, and Kathleen, their stepmother, 12:04 had now died under mysterious circumstances. And their aunts and adopted sister, Caitlyn, 12:09 I don't, it doesn't seem like they were speaking to each other at this point. 12:12 I think just, that's a massive disagreement, obviously. 12:15 Yeah. On top of that, they were now also facing the possibility of losing the only 12:19 father figure left in their lives to a potential life sentence should he be convicted. 12:25 That's horrifying. 12:26 That is possibly why when the results of Elizabeth's autopsy were made public, Margaret and Martha 12:31 rejected the implication that Michael was somehow responsible for the death and they 12:35 still chose to stand by him. 12:38 Now in the 16 months since Kathleen's death, the Peterson family had learned obviously 12:43 a great deal more about Michael Peterson than they ever thought they would. 12:47 And more about the death of their loved ones than they ever wanted to know. 12:52 Or not that they ever wanted to know, but just that they ever would expect to have them. 12:56 Yeah, that they were ever asking for. 12:58 To some, like Caitlyn, the lies, the deceit, and the evidence of violence 13:01 were enough to convince her of Michael's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. 13:05 But others remained skeptical and chose to trust the man that they knew and loved, 13:09 hoping that the long-awaited trial would be Michael Peterson's opportunity to prove his innocence. 13:14 With everybody having chosen their sides, at that point, all that was left was for 13:18 a jury to hear the arguments. 13:21 Now it took more than a month to select the jury for such a high-profile case, but finally 13:26 on July 1, 2003, opening statements were made in the state of North Carolina versus 13:30 Michael Peterson. 13:32 After 18 months of investigation and of pretrial arguments, the prosecution led 13:38 by Jim Harden believed they had a simple and pretty straightforward case that was 13:43 backed up by evidence. He told the jury they said it's an accident, a fall down the stairs, 13:48 and we say it's not. We say it's murder. I'm pretty simple. 13:52 Okay, yeah. That's easy to understand. 13:54 Now holding what the prosecution believed to be the murder weapon in his hand, a four-foot 13:59 brass fireplace tool known as a blow poke, Hardin told the jury that they would be 14:04 hearing a lot about a couple storybook romance, how they were soulmates and best friends, 14:08 and how nobody could believe Michael Peterson could have harmed or killed his 14:12 wife. But Hardin said, this case is all about things not appearing as they seem. 14:18 He said Michael Peterson himself was not what he seemed, and that was the motive 14:22 for murder. According to his theory, Michael killed Kathleen after she had 14:27 discovered that he was a closeted gay man, and had also been having sex with 14:32 men at various points during their marriage, all of which he had kept 14:35 a secret up to that point? Those are, that's his argument. I'm not saying we do that. 14:41 While the family might not have found the revelations about Michael's sexuality 14:45 shocking, Caitlin was convinced that her mother would have been devastated had she found out. 14:50 She said, I genuinely cannot believe that she could know anything about that. 14:53 I know from every value she's taught me, the way that I was raised, that's not something 14:57 she would have been willing to accept. Now, I want to be clear. I don't think she's 15:01 talking about like being gay or anything like that. 15:04 I think she's talking about infidelity in an affair. 15:06 I think that makes perfect sense. 15:07 I just wanna make that crystal clear. 15:09 She would not have accepted her partner having an affair. 15:11 Because also she hadn't in the past. 15:14 Yeah, exactly. 15:15 Unfortunately, her first husband had an affair 15:17 and she had an affair and she did not accept it. 15:19 So just making that clear. 15:22 Now, if that wasn't motive enough, 15:23 there was also the life insurance policy 15:25 the prosecution was arguing. 15:27 $1.4 million would have gone a long way 15:30 to paying down their debt that they were in and they were in a good amount of debt. 15:34 All of this hard and assured the jury would be supported by the evidence, 15:37 but he was banking on more than that. He said, 15:40 I think it's all about the exercise of your reason and common sense. 15:44 When you get right down to it, it's about her. Please remember it's ultimately about her. 15:49 Yeah. Meaning Kathleen obviously. 16:00 You guys, I remember being like, I don't know, maybe 18 or 19 years old, 16:04 getting my first credit card and like obviously I realized that it wasn't free money, 16:08 But at the same time, I don't know that I realized for sure that it wasn't free money 16:12 I so wish that I had known about rocket money back then the rocket money app can help you stay 16:18 Way more in control of your money. 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Carrie is a story about how small acts of cruelty snowball into something 18:01 catastrophic. A theme that feels as painfully relevant today as it did 50 years ago. I am 18:07 so so excited to see how this is done. Carrie's story hits hard in this modern world because 18:13 bullying as we all know can follow you everywhere nowadays, so I cannot wait to see how this goes. 18:19 Carrie is streaming October 7th only on Prime Video. 18:23 Every good detective needs a partner to support them on important cases. Think of a 18:31 the way in your search for coverage. State Farm can help you choose the coverage you need, 18:36 whether it's for your home, car, boat, or even RV. With so many options, it's nice knowing 18:41 you have help finding what fits for you so you can get back to solving all of life's bigger cases. 18:47 Go to StateFarm.com or use the award-winning app to connect with a local agent and get a 18:53 quote. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Now in his opening statements, 19:01 defense attorney David Rudolf had an entirely different story to tell the jury. He started 19:06 by saying nothing at all and instead playing the recordings of Michael's call to 911, 19:11 which was, it's a harrowing call. Yeah, I'm sure. I hate having to listen to 911 calls. 19:17 I know. I do not like a 911 call. It feels weirdly invasive. It does. 19:22 I think the only time it ever made its way into a morbid episode was the Weepy 19:31 than that, both of us are not interested. 19:34 Now, in the 90 minutes that followed though, 19:36 Rudolph went over the prosecution's theory point by point, 19:39 explaining why and how they were wrong 19:41 about Michael Peterson. 19:43 According to Rudolph, Michael and Kathleen's romance 19:45 was, quote, a love that absolutely everyone who saw them 19:48 or knew them recognized and envied. 19:51 Murder wasn't just unsupported by the facts he said, 19:54 it was absolutely unthinkable. 19:56 Kathleen, he said, had taken Valium that day 19:58 and later in the evening she had several glasses of wine. So the combination of the two affected 20:02 her equilibrium, her motor skills, so when she reached the top of the stairs she was dizzy, 20:07 she lost her balance, and she fell. Which is also a pretty compelling argument. 20:12 It is. Using a projector he showed the jury a video prepared by one of the experts prepared 20:16 the defense, which demonstrated how the fall could have caused the lacerations on Kathleen 20:22 Skelp. Okay. According to the video, Kathleen fell backwards on the steps, cracked her Skelp on a 20:28 door molding, fell to the landing, cut her head again on floor molding, got up and slipped, and 20:34 cut her head once more on the corner of the staircase. Okay. Which, hey, I have to see the 20:41 video. Yeah. If you're showing me, you know, and it just, I think, just to be clear, 20:46 like the staircase kind of goes down and then turns a bit just to like, so you can 20:51 and had a picture of that a little better. 20:52 Yeah, you can also like look up photographs. 20:54 Yeah. 20:55 Rudolph's video and the promised forthcoming evidence 20:57 supporting their claims weren't all he had planned 20:59 for the trial. 21:00 There was also the matter of what he felt 21:02 was the Durham police department's overly enthusiastic 21:05 pursuit of Michael to what he thought was the exclusion 21:08 of any other possible scenario. 21:10 He told the jury the police had reason to think 21:13 the worst Michael Peterson had been critical 21:14 of the police for years, essentially implying that 21:18 they'd been waiting for an opportunity 21:20 to get back at him for his endless opinion pieces 21:23 in the newspaper criticizing their performance 21:25 throughout the years. 21:26 Damn. 21:27 And he said, this was precisely that opportunity. 21:29 I mean, and again, that when you put it like that, yeah. 21:34 There's a scene that should happen before. 21:36 There's strong arguments on both sides. 21:39 Now, after a brief break for lunch, 21:40 the trial did get underway 21:41 and the prosecution's first witness, 21:43 paramedic Jay Rose, 21:45 who told the jury how he'd found Kathleen's body 21:47 upon arrival at the Peterson House testified. According to Rose, the scene immediately struck 21:52 him as something other than an accident. There was, quote, an enormous amount of blood, he said, 21:57 and Kathleen's injuries were not consistent with a fall. He also confirmed that, at the time, 22:02 Michael was either unwilling or unable to help the paramedics with any information as they 22:07 tried to revive Kathleen. Which is strange. Yeah. But also, you can be unable versus 22:14 is unwilling. That's true. It's a very stressful situation and it's a very fine line. 22:20 When you have to think about a husband finding their wife at the bottom of the stairs, if they 22:24 are innocent, yeah, you're going to be in an emotional state that is indescribable. Yeah, you 22:30 know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, my mom has fallen down the stairs and I've both asked should 22:36 myself are always there when when in the aftermath of that. And my dad is always 22:42 It's an absolute wreck. 22:44 Yes, exactly. 22:46 So it happens. 22:47 Yeah. 22:48 Now with the sensational and dramatic opening statements, the first month of the trial was 22:52 pretty much concerned with the medical findings in the autopsy, information about finances, 22:56 and the details of the crime scene itself from investigators. 23:00 It wasn't until early August when Hardin got back to the prosecution's theory for 23:04 a motive that things kind of started to take on a more tabloid journalism tone. 23:09 Until that point in the trial, Michael Peterson's bisexuality was only hinted at by the prosecution, 23:15 but there weren't any real details provided. 23:18 But then on August 7th, Hardin introduced into evidence the contents of Michael's computer, 23:24 including an email exchange with a male sex worker who Michael had been planning to meet 23:28 up with for sex. 23:30 Well, that changes things. 23:33 It sure does. 23:34 Yeah. 23:34 Now, the introduction of contents on Michael's computer was a direct challenge to the defenses 23:39 claim that Michael and Kathleen were happily married. 23:42 Yes. 23:42 The prosecution claim claimed Kathleen hadn't known about Michael's bisexuality until the 23:47 night she died. 23:48 According to assistant prosecutor David Sacks, around 11pm on the night of her death, Kathleen 23:53 got a call from a co-worker who needed to send her a document, so Kathleen gave 23:58 them Michael's email address because that was the computer at home. 24:00 Now, as a result, Sac said, Kathleen, quote, had an opportunity to be on the computer and 24:06 in Michael's email where she could have discovered the September 2001 email exchange with the 24:12 male sex worker, E, and it was just one hour later that the medical examiner believed Kathleen 24:18 was killed. 24:19 Okay. 24:20 That's very compelling. 24:21 That's very compelling. 24:23 Now, the defense quickly shot back at the claim under cross examination with defense 24:28 attorney Thomas Mayer arguing that that scenario laid out a lot of maybes. 24:32 Yeah. Which it does. It does, yeah. 24:34 So speculation and hearsay aside, the sexuality angle took hold and the public was hooked. 24:40 Then two days later, the jury was introduced to the very male sex worker that Michael had 24:46 been exchanging emails with. Oh boy. I left their name out of this. It's reported on in 24:51 some places, but I don't know. They might not want to be dragged into this this many 24:54 years later. On the stand, he explained that at the time of his email exchanges with Peterson, 25:00 he was advertising his services on an escort website for men seeking sex with other men. 25:06 He said he received an email from Michael in late August expressing interest in his services, 25:11 but ultimately they never met in person and they never had sex. But they'd talked about it. 25:16 So as Thomas Mayer had pointed out, the existence of nearly 3,000 gay and pornographic 25:21 images on Michael's computer and his email exchanges were not evidence that Michael or 25:26 that Kathleen had discovered his bisexuality that you can't just say that because they existed 25:31 just because they're there and that is true but for the prosecution that might not have been the 25:37 point by bringing Michael's sexuality into the trial showing the jury lurid and pornographic 25:43 images of gay sex at that time and introducing them to the very male sex worker that Michael 25:48 been communicating with, Hardin had effectively undermined the perception of the marriage is 25:53 perfect. Of course he did, exactly. Which, like, that was a brilliant tactic from that side of it. 26:00 It also should be said that there's no evidence that Kathleen knew about Michael's 26:04 interest in men and the only evidence that she would have objected was offered by 26:09 Caitlin, who did know her very well, obviously. Of course. But we don't know. 26:13 Hardin's emphasis on Michael's sexuality obviously was a strategy 26:16 to inject the jury with a certain amount of doubt 26:19 and also to Sully his character. 26:21 Yeah. 26:21 Because in 2001, there was no room in public discourse 26:25 for the subject of open marriages. 26:27 No. 26:27 That was not a thing. 26:28 And now, and even at that time, 26:30 introducing like anything but a straight marriage 26:35 or a straight relationship into this 26:38 is also going to, it was just a different situation. 26:42 It was, yeah. 26:43 And the other thing was in the minds 26:44 of a lot of Americans back then, including queer people, being bisexual just meant you 26:50 were gay. 26:50 Yeah. 26:51 Like it was just like a pit stop on the way. 26:53 Like nobody could believe that he could be happily married to a woman. 26:55 That he could be attracted to women and men. 26:57 And men. 26:58 Yeah. 26:58 They were just like, no, you're gay and she's a beard, essentially, is like what people 27:02 fall back to. 27:02 Like people were like, bi isn't real. 27:04 And unfortunately, people still think that. 27:05 I was gonna say people still think that. 27:07 They do. 27:08 It also would have been difficult for a lot of people to understand how Michael 27:11 and Kathleen could have a satisfying fulfilling relationship unless they were both straight. 27:15 Back then, unfortunately. Because again, it's that weird thing that if you're straight, 27:20 it's not automatically assumed that you're going to go have an affair with another person that 27:25 you're attracted to. But if you're bi, then obviously you're not going to be able to stop 27:29 yourself from being with the other people that you are attracted to. If you're married to a 27:36 woman, you're not going to be able to stop yourself from having a relationship with men. 27:40 men because you just have to. And it's like, no, that's literally not how commitment works. 27:44 No, it's not. It's not how monogamy works. Basically, at the end of the day, I think 27:48 the prosecution was hoping to strengthen their argument with like some institutional homophobia. 27:53 Absolutely. It feels that way. Yeah. And that's my opinion. They were just 27:57 throwing some mud on it and seeing what stuck. I think there was, I think it was valid to 28:03 introduce some of that information, obviously. I think it was valid to introduce the idea 28:08 Do you have an affair? 28:09 As a motive, exactly. 28:10 Or that he was willing to, 28:12 I mean, if you're talking, 28:14 this is me, 28:15 if you're talking to anybody 28:17 about possibly getting together. 28:20 That's an affair. 28:21 That's an affair. 28:22 Yes, I agree. 28:22 That's cheating. 28:23 That's bad. 28:24 That doesn't paint you in a good light. 28:26 And it doesn't paint your marriage in a good light. 28:28 If you're in a monogamous marriage. 28:30 Straight, gay, bi, whatever the situation, 28:35 if you are outside of your marriage 28:37 trying to meet up with someone to do that, I mean, it doesn't look good. 28:43 No, it doesn't. It doesn't. And especially not when your partner ends up dead. 28:46 Well, that's the thing. It's like, and then you add this on to it. It's like, yeah, 28:49 that doesn't make you look good, dude. I think they just... 28:52 And it doesn't make the marriage look like what you're saying it is. 28:55 No, I think they just went to like the nth degree to prove that. 28:59 Now, despite the lack of evidence that Kathleen knew of or objected to 29:02 Michael's sexuality, Hardin and the rest of the prosecution team was 29:05 pretty sure it was the trigger for the argument 29:07 that led to her death. 29:08 Hardin said and argued, 29:10 she had already been through a previous marriage 29:12 where infidelity was an issue and she didn't tolerate it. 29:14 And why would she tolerate it now? 29:16 There was a trigger and we've contended all along 29:18 that she must have found something out 29:20 about this lifestyle that caused it. 29:22 Now. 29:23 And it's a valid theory. 29:25 It is. 29:25 It's a totally- 29:27 They would be crazy not to use that theory. 29:29 Not to present. 29:29 Yeah. 29:30 I think the tough thing is those 29:32 is that you have no idea if she discovered it or not. 29:35 Honestly, that's not the tough thing. 29:37 That's the brilliant part. 29:39 Yeah, that's true. 29:40 You have no evidence that she didn't. 29:42 So it could go with her life. 29:43 So it's literally just, 29:44 of course they're gonna throw that out there. 29:45 That's a perfect theory to throw out. 29:47 It fits perfect. 29:50 She's already been cheated on. 29:52 And she showed that she wasn't sticking around. 29:55 If she got cheated on here and she said, 29:57 see you later, goodbye. 29:59 And he lost it. 29:59 That's a perfect catalyst 30:01 for something like this to happen. 30:03 It is true. 30:03 And they can say, yeah, you don't know 30:05 if she found that though, 30:06 and you can say, yeah, 30:06 and you don't know if she didn't. 30:07 You don't know if she didn't, right. 30:08 So reasonable doubt. 30:10 Yeah. 30:10 Boom. 30:11 Like easy. 30:13 Well, after three months of testimony, 30:15 the press described as lurid graphic 30:17 and sometimes nap inducing, which is very rude. 30:19 Wow. 30:20 Yeah, I was like, wow. 30:21 It's a literal murder case. 30:22 Yeah. 30:23 The case did finally come to an end 30:24 on October 3rd, 2003. 30:26 It's October 3rd. 30:27 I knew you were gonna say that. 30:27 I had to. 30:29 After both sides gave their closing arguments, 30:31 the court adjourned for the weekend and was expecting to resume the following Monday with 30:34 jury deliberation. However, that Monday morning Judge Orlando Hudson was informed that one of 30:41 the jury members had been arrested over the weekend for public intoxication. 30:45 And when he was put into a cell, the jury told the officer he was on the Michael Peterson 30:49 jury and they didn't need to mess with him. That's not how that works. 30:54 It's not how that works. It's obviously unusual but not bad unheard of to replace a jury 31:00 remember that lead in a trial. 31:01 But that wasn't the end of it. 31:03 Immediately after Judge Rolanda replaced 31:06 the jury member who had been arrested, 31:08 he received a report regarding, as you should. 31:11 That's what alternates are for? 31:12 Yeah. Yeah. 31:13 Topical. 31:14 Immediately after he replaced that jury member though, 31:17 he received another report regarding another jury member 31:20 who was said to be a bank teller 31:22 who had been heard saying negative things 31:24 about Peterson, who was a former customer of hers. 31:28 Or a former customer of theirs. 31:29 Here's the thing about people, we're just always going to people or it's wild that we can't stop 31:35 peopeling but you know it's crazy not even in like this situation they're like this is so important 31:40 that you don't fucking run your goddamn mouth and we're like totally for sure for sure for sure 31:46 on this book yes and then we're just like gonna go have you heard it's like we just can't stop 31:52 It's wild. Well, crazy. That juror was also excused and replaced by an alternate. 31:59 Because that's an option. Yeah, if you don't do the jury thing right, 32:03 you don't listen to the instructions, you don't follow the law. That's what an alternate is. 32:07 Alternates. Yeah. So finally, deliberation could begin. Now with two alternates having been placed 32:12 in. Now on October 10th, after three days of exhausting deliberation, the jury emerged to 32:18 find Michael Peterson guilty, a first-degree murder of his wife Kathleen. 32:22 Damn. 32:23 While Michael remained silent about the verdict, David Rudolph expressed his frustrations to 32:27 the reporters a few minutes later, and he said he was going to appeal as soon as humanly 32:31 possible. 32:32 The guilty verdict was obviously accompanied by a sentence of life in prison without the 32:36 possibility of parole, and Michael was let out of the courtroom in handcuffs and 32:39 taken to Raleigh's central prison to begin serving his sentence. 32:43 Wow. 32:44 Now, years later when they were asked about the verdict, several jurors were called 32:48 feeling conflicted during deliberations. One juror told NBC News in 2006, 32:53 I think there were times throughout the trial that I personally moved from one side to the 32:57 other with regard to guilt or innocence. Oh, that's like wild to hear. 33:02 Yeah, because that's doubt. And when someone goes away for the rest of their life, you're like, 33:06 but again, that's human. It's, I couldn't, being a jury, remember? 33:12 We're such a high profile case like this and just like a case, any murder case I could 33:17 Yeah, never do it. 33:18 No. 33:28 It's so crazy to think about when I first got Simply Safe, 33:31 I think maybe six, seven years ago, something like that. 33:35 And now how much it's grown 33:38 and how many times I've moved and updated the system. 33:42 Think about what a home security system does 33:44 as an intruder approaches your house. 33:46 Not much until the window breaks, right? 33:48 Then the alarm goes off, you get a notification, 33:50 but what if the whole point was to stop 33:52 that chain of events before it even started? 33:54 Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after her break-in is already 33:59 underway, Simply Safe is designed to help stop intruders before they even get inside. 34:04 Like I was saying, I have added so many pieces of Simply Safe, like equipment, you can say, 34:10 to my houses as I've moved. 34:12 I have the window sensors. 34:14 I have a panic button in my bedroom. 34:16 I have cameras on every angle of my GD house, and they are top-notch cameras. 34:21 Whereas the sound of the alarm, especially there's one that even makes it louder on 34:26 the outside, it would deter anybody from coming into your house. 34:29 But then you have to realize that the AI powered cameras are tracking everything so that nobody's 34:34 going to even approach your house in the first place without something being done 34:37 about it. 34:38 Simply Safe has been protecting your world for 20 years. 34:42 Celebrate their anniversary with us and save 60% on your new Simply Safe system at 34:46 at simplysafe.com slash morbid. 34:48 That's 60% off at simplysafe.com slash morbid. 34:52 Plus, when you order, write in our show name 34:54 and the how did you hear about us survey 34:56 to let them know that we sent you. 34:58 Don't forget, there's no safe like Simply Safe. 35:02 Getting a good night's sleep can start 35:04 well before your head hits that pillow. 35:06 I take my nighttime routine very seriously. 35:09 I need a cup of tea, honey. 35:11 I gotta go upstairs. 35:12 I gotta do my skincare routine. 35:14 And then I need to lay in bed 35:15 and maybe do a little meditation on the on the hatch alarm clock. 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Try hatch sleep clock, 36:01 the sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep, now available on hatch.co and amazon. 36:06 on. 36:08 This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. 36:10 Mental health initiatives like World Mental Health Day are so important, but you also 36:15 have to remember that your mental health should be priority every single day, 365 baby. 36:20 For some people, therapy can be one way to support their mental well-being. 36:24 And remember, therapy isn't just for big life choices either. 36:27 It can be a place to talk about relationship problems, work issues, or simply the sense 36:31 that something feels off. 36:33 With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms 36:38 having served millions of people globally. 36:41 BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and a thousand hours of hands-on experience. 36:46 Plus, BetterHelp makes it easy to fit therapy into your routine, with flexible ways to 36:50 connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. 36:53 Your mental health doesn't need a special occasion or anybody else's permission 36:57 to matter. 36:58 BetterHelp can connect you with a therapist who gets you, so you can make space for 37:02 what matters to you. Visit betterhelp.com slash morbid to explore your payment options. 37:07 That's better help H-E-L-P dot com slash morbid. In the end, the jurors found the prosecution's 37:19 point though about the Peterson's financial troubles to be compelling, and they were 37:22 swayed by the testimony given about Michael's infidelity. And they felt the biggest thing 37:27 that the defense was trying to say was like they were the perfect couple. Nobody 37:33 would think Michael would do this. All their close friends and loved ones agree 37:36 that he wouldn't do this, but then you prove that he was willing to have an affair or step 37:41 outside of his marriage. And you prove that, yeah, everybody thought he wasn't capable 37:44 of this. Everybody thought he wasn't capable of an affair either. So everyone doesn't know him. 37:49 Exactly. That's what you're sewing. It's unfortunately pretty perfect. 37:53 So Michael's first appeal came before the North Carolina Court of Appeals in April 2006. 37:57 Among other things, his attorney argued that he'd been denied a fair trial, 38:01 due in large part to the extensive and sensational coverage in the press. 38:04 and the introduction of what he called a relevant evidence, 38:08 like Elizabeth Ratliff's death. 38:10 Um... 38:10 I feel like that's pretty relevant. 38:13 Yeah, I feel that. 38:14 Although the three-judge panel concluded that there had been certain infractions in the investigation, 38:19 they ultimately didn't affect the outcome of the trial, so the verdict was upheld. 38:24 But because one of the judges on the panel dissented, 38:27 the case was eligible for review by the State Supreme Court. 38:30 So the next year, the North Carolina State Supreme Court reviewed the appeal 38:34 submitted by mayor, but again it was ultimately denied. Two years after Peterson's failed appeal 38:39 with the state supreme court, a series of articles in the news and observer criticizing the state 38:45 bureau of investigation prompted the state attorney general Roy Cooper at the time to open an 38:51 investigation into the practices and success rates of the SBI. Oh. Among the findings of 38:58 investigation was the fact that expert analysts at the SBI were turning in deeply flawed reports 39:05 and providing counterproductive work on criminal cases. 39:09 Or nor. 39:11 Among those analysts who were found to be the most egregious was Dwayne Devere, 39:16 whose blood spatter analysis was a critical part of the case against Michael Peterson. 39:22 Oh that that's not good. 39:24 That's why I told you right at the top of part one that some of this will be called into 39:27 question. Yeah. So in 2011, in August, David Rudolf filed a motion with the court requesting copies 39:34 of all the documentation compiled by the state during the investigation of the Peterson case, 39:39 obviously intending to challenge the ruling. Yeah. As a result, the state hired an independent 39:44 auditor who discovered that Devere had provided false testimony or misrepresented evidence 39:50 In at least 34 cases, including four in which he testified on behalf of the state, one of 39:59 those cases was Michael Peterson's case. 40:02 Oh boy. 40:03 That's a big fucking deal. 40:04 That's a huge deal. 40:05 That would, that's nuts. 40:07 That's at least something that you go, uh-oh, uh-oh. 40:10 So the findings of the independent auditor resulted in Michael Peterson's appeal for 40:14 a new trial being granted. 40:15 And in December 2011, he was released on bail pending a new trial, 40:20 but he was placed on house arrest at that point 40:22 and had to wear like an ankle monitor. 40:24 So now out of jail, he started prepping for the new trial. 40:27 But the road ahead was, you know, full of pre-trial hearings 40:31 and motions that delayed things significantly as always. 40:34 In November of 2016, Peterson's new lawyer, 40:38 Mike Kling-Cossum, moved to have the second trial dismissed 40:41 based on the delays and the testimony of Devere, 40:44 but the motion was denied and a trial date was set for May of 2017 then just 40:50 a few months later in February the district attorney announced that they 40:54 had reached a plea deal with Michael Peterson and they would not be proceeding 40:58 with a second trial what all of a sudden huh according to the terms of the 41:05 deal Michael would enter an Alfred plea and exchange would be yeah an exchange 41:10 she would be sentenced to 86 months in prison with credit for time 41:13 served. He had already served 99 months almost by that time, so he was not going to have to go 41:19 back to prison, and he would walk away a free man. Now, we said this at the top. You might remember 41:25 us talking about Alfred Pleese from a couple cases, most notably the West Memphis Three Case. 41:30 Basically, by definition, it is a plea quote under which a defendant may choose to plead 41:35 guilty not because of an admission to the crime, but because the prosecutor has sufficient 41:39 evidence to place a charge and obtain a conviction in court. 41:43 Yeah. 41:43 So it's basically saying that the state has enough evidence to convict you, 41:47 but they're not going to? 41:50 Yeah. 41:50 It's so strange to me. 41:52 The Alfred Police weird. 41:54 I think it's like, yeah, I mean, it's hard to explain it, 41:59 because it's like you get to maintain your innocence. 42:01 They say they still think you're guilty. 42:03 They just don't want to try you again. 42:05 But to me, it always makes me think you don't want to try them again, 42:08 because you don't have enough. 42:09 You don't have enough to convict them. 42:10 Or what you do have is tainted, I think, in this case. 42:14 And that's what it felt like with the West Memphis 3 case to me. 42:17 I was like, they don't want egg on their face. 42:19 So it's weird. 42:20 Yeah. 42:21 It's a strange plea. 42:23 Yeah. 42:24 So he can maintain his innocence, 42:26 but the state continues to say, no, you're guilty. 42:29 But then it's weird, too, with an Alfred plea, 42:30 because you're like, so you're just letting someone 42:33 you think is a murderer walk out? 42:36 Yeah, and that doesn't feel realistic to me. 42:38 It never makes sense to me. 42:39 And again, not to keep going back to it, 42:41 but like with the West Memphis Three case, I thought that too. 42:44 I was like, you're just letting three child, 42:45 the people who you think viciously murdered
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