Show full transcript 0:36 And they're forced into making choices 0:38 is that could absolutely tear their world apart. 0:42 As soon as I saw who was involved in this film 0:45 and who was in this film, I was sad. 0:47 We said, let's go. 0:49 Ben Affleck, our Boston boy, we got a support. 0:53 He's such a talented actor. 0:54 He's a really talented writer and director. 0:56 And he does all of that here. 0:58 He's amazing. 0:59 And also, Carrie Washington. 1:00 Come on. 1:01 I'll watch anything with Carrie Washington. 1:03 Truly at the end of the day. 1:04 Let's be real. 1:04 And Julie Anderson. 1:06 Oh, yes. 1:06 Yes, my girl Scully, she's always gonna be Scully to me. 1:10 She's a chameleon though. 1:11 She can do no wrong in whatever she stars in. 1:14 I was here for it. 1:15 I was so excited the second I saw any kind of trailer for this. 1:18 I was like, this looks like a nail, 1:20 but you're so suspenseful. 1:21 It hooked me immediately. 1:22 It has everything that I look for 1:24 in this kind of movie. 1:25 And we're actually going to be talking about 1:28 a very similar kind of thing in today's episode. 1:32 Yeah, we sure are. 1:33 So get ready for that. 1:34 It's gonna be relevant. 1:35 and watch animals now playing only on Netflix, rated R. 1:43 Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. 1:45 And I'm Alina. 1:46 And this is a bonus episode full of it. 1:48 It's a bonus! 2:03 We promised you true crime because this is our bonus episode. 2:08 That is like really fucking cool 2:09 because Netflix is sponsoring it. 2:11 Yeah, that was pretty sick. 2:12 Have you guys seen the new film on Netflix 2:16 with Ben Affleck and Kerry Washington, Animals? 2:19 Have you? 2:20 Have you seen it? 2:21 I'm going to wait for your answer. 2:23 Okay, go watch it. 2:24 Yeah, go watch it. 2:25 Make sure you watch it. 2:26 And yeah, the crime is true in this episode. 2:29 The crime is true. 2:30 And I picked this episode to do because I was like, wow, this relates back to the subject 2:37 material of animals like so perfectly. 2:39 It's almost like a parallel universe kind of vibe. 2:42 It's almost a true crime in of itself. 2:44 How perfect it relates back. 2:46 Listen to you, girl. 2:47 All right. 2:48 So yeah, today we're going to be talking about the kidnapping of Peggy McMath. 2:52 Yeah, this is going to stress me out. 2:53 This is going to stress you out. 2:55 Ben Affleck is a local boy. 2:57 And we love the Ben Affleck. 2:59 This is a local case. 3:00 Hell yeah. 3:01 From a very long time ago, though. 3:02 Yeah. 3:02 So that it doesn't stress you out as much. 3:04 As much. 3:05 You know what doesn't stress me out as a quick little aside? 3:08 Tell me. 3:08 All the pictures of Ben Affleck looking so stressed out while holding Dunkin Donuts. 3:13 Yes. 3:13 They are my favorite art form. 3:15 No. 3:16 And I will take no further questions. 3:17 As New England people, those hit us in a good place. 3:22 You can relate. 3:23 We've all been there. 3:24 Yeah. 3:24 Just ripping a saggy. 3:26 Just stressed out holding the Dunkin' Donuts. 3:27 Yeah, it's the best. 3:29 I love it. 3:30 Well, here's something that won't make you feel good. 3:33 Awesome. 3:34 Like, what a way to start. 3:36 I mean, this is not going to make you. 3:37 Kids do not feel good. 3:38 I hope this doesn't hit you 3:39 in a good place in your soul. 3:42 By the early 1930s, 3:44 Kidnapping was like an increasingly terrifying reality in America. 3:48 Yeah, it was kind of like a thing. 3:50 It was this thing. 3:51 It was trending. 3:53 Kidnapping was in fact trending at this time. 3:55 If we had TikTok, it would be trending. 3:56 No, it absolutely would be. 3:58 Now, obviously the country was in the grips of the Great Depression 4:01 and with millions of people out of work, 4:03 the reason that kidnapping was trending was because of ransoms. 4:07 Yeah. 4:08 So kidnappings were just all over the headlines. 4:10 It was just, it was the new side hustle. 4:13 It essentially quite literally was in fact just one year before the kidnapping that we're gonna talk about today 4:19 Baby Charles Lindbergh Jr. Had been kidnapped from his own bedroom, which yeah, we talked about that makes me want to throw up 4:26 Throw up and his demander wanted 50 or his abductor. I was like demander 4:34 Well, I was gonna say his abductor demanded and then I just put those his demand his abductor was demanding 4:41 He sure was. 4:42 $50,000 for his safe return. 4:44 Yeah, that episode is crazy, you should listen to it. 4:46 It's a wild episode, it's so sad. 4:48 It is, it's awful. 4:50 Obviously because of how sad it is, 4:51 the case horrified the nation 4:52 and made it very, very clear 4:54 that even the wealthiest, most prominent families 4:56 weren't necessarily safe 4:58 and honestly were probably like more at target 5:02 because of the money that they had. 5:04 Of course. 5:04 Which like, hello, Ben Affleck running for mayor. 5:07 Hello, Ben Affleck as mayor, you know? 5:09 Yeah. 5:09 Putting yourself in the public eye. 5:11 You sure are. 5:11 Kids are like, hey, give me that money. 5:14 Now kidnapping obviously wasn't a new crime, 5:16 but it had become so prevalent in the headlines 5:18 that the New York Times was publishing a regular feature 5:21 called Recent Kidnappings in America. 5:24 That's so fucked up that I can't even comprehend that. 5:27 Not only that, Time Magazine was reporting kidnappings 5:30 alongside births, deaths, and weddings. 5:35 Okay. 5:35 So you could really just take yourself 5:37 on a journey with the paper. 5:38 Just events I wonder what order they put those in I also wonder that would you go best till best to worst or worse to best 5:45 We're still best. Yeah on and on a good note. I totally agree. Look at you. It's like you organize books or something 5:51 For some of the most deranged people the economic desperation of the depression made the prospect of a large ransom 5:58 Incredibly tempting. Oh, you may yeah, and in the spring of 1933 one of those deranged people was 28-year-old 6:06 Kenneth Buck from Harwich, Massachusetts. 6:09 Oh. 6:10 Do you know about this case? 6:11 No, but I just said, you know, it's not great that he's from Massachusetts. 6:15 Yeah, I told you it was local. 6:17 It's not great. 6:18 Yeah. 6:19 I'm going to punch him in the face. 6:20 As you should. 6:21 Yeah. 6:21 Retroactively. 6:22 Absolutely. 6:23 Well, he was born in 1905 in Harwich, which is why you'll have to do that retroactively. 6:27 He was the son of sea captain Joshua Buck. 6:30 But when he was just 12 years old, Kenneth's father dropped dead unexpectedly from a heart attack. 6:34 I don't know rip rip I know so I and I apologize if your dad's name is Josh dad 6:40 shouldn't be named Josh oh he was Joshua what do you feel about that doesn't 6:45 feel like a dad name yeah I don't know why when you said that I was like the 6:48 name is Josh I went to school with about 47,000 kids named Josh yeah and I 6:54 would presume that some of them are fathers today like oh this is just my 6:58 dad Josh yeah I don't know why that just doesn't hit for me yeah I don't 7:03 It's never occurred to me before this moment. 7:06 It's like what? 7:07 It's like your dad being named Zach. 7:09 Yeah, it also doesn't work. 7:11 Yeah, you're right. 7:12 Sorry if that's your, this is my dad Zachary. 7:15 Zachary is a little better. 7:17 See, I don't know. 7:18 This is my dad Zach attack. 7:19 Yeah, Zach attack works. 7:21 This is my dad Josh. 7:22 I don't know, Josh doesn't, and there's many. 7:24 Here's the thing, if you're a Josh or you have a Josh 7:28 or you know a Josh, like that's a great name. 7:30 Yeah. 7:30 I don't know why it doesn't hit for me for a girl for a dad name. I don't know 7:35 I don't think I don't think Elena necessarily sounds like a mom name either though 7:40 It doesn't not you know, but it's like one of those that you're like, huh should your mom be named Ashley? I 7:46 Feel like Ashley is a mom name you think so like a good like a good mom. Wow. Thank you 7:52 Like hopefully when I'm a mom someday, it'll be good her mom Ashley. She baked cookies see that just sounds like a teenager to me 7:59 Oh, and we got, oh, that's a good mom name. 8:03 Debbie is a mom name. 8:04 Debbie is raising her hand in the corner. 8:07 Yeah. 8:07 Aidan? 8:08 Aidan, my dad, Aidan? 8:10 Yeah. 8:11 The only reason I say yes is because sex in the city. 8:13 I was literally just gonna say that. 8:15 Aidan was a dad, and it made sense. 8:17 Yeah. 8:17 Aidan works for dads. 8:19 That's dads with morbid and moms. 8:22 Yeah. 8:22 Well, anyways, unfortunately, his dad, Josh was dead. 8:26 So apparently it didn't work there. 8:27 Ripper running. 8:27 And as the sole earner for the family, Joshua Buck's death really left the family in a rough 8:33 situation with not a lot of options. 8:35 So as the oldest of the two boys in the family, Kenneth took it upon himself to become the 8:41 sole provider for his mom and his four siblings. 8:44 But it turned out that outside of the fishing industry, there weren't a lot of jobs available 8:49 on Cape Cod for young boys with no work experience. 8:53 Weird. 8:53 Yeah, it's crazy. 8:54 So as a result, he turned to petty, petty crest, petty grand to earn money. 9:00 He stole car parts usually and would sell them at reduced prices, 9:04 which is kind of entrepreneurial shit. 9:06 I was kidding. I'm not even mad at that. 9:09 I mean, stealing is bad. 9:10 Especially like Great Depression era. 9:11 It's like, you know, okay, go ahead. 9:14 Do what you need to do. 9:15 You can't steal people. That's the problem. 9:17 Don't steal people. 9:18 That's where you cross the line, my friend. 9:19 Don't steal in general, like that's our best advice. 9:21 No, don't do that. 9:22 But the scheme did work really good for a few years until Kenneth was arrested at age 16. 9:29 That'll happen. 9:29 And he was charged with being an accessory before the larceny of an automobile tire. 9:37 So basically he was there when a tire was about to get stolen. 9:41 The stupidest charge I have ever heard in my life. 9:45 Accessory before the larceny of a tire? 9:48 You were there before someone stole a tire. 9:52 Someone stole a tire. 9:54 Also, how do you prove that? 9:55 Not even a car. 9:56 A tire. 9:57 A tire. 9:57 Yeah. 9:58 Like you happen to be around when someone thought about stealing a tire. 10:01 Which would be tough to prove in court. 10:03 Imagine going to jail. 10:04 What are you in for? 10:06 I was around when someone thought about stealing a tire. 10:08 Did they steal it? 10:10 Maybe. 10:12 That would be my follow-up question. 10:14 And I'd be like, I don't know. 10:14 I was there before. 10:15 I don't know. 10:16 Yeah. 10:16 Well, the judge took pity because he was like, you know what, this is a pretty dumb 10:19 charge. 10:20 He's like, move the stupid charge. 10:21 And he was like, you know what, Kenneth? 10:22 I'm going to let you off with a fine. 10:23 But the good thing was that the arrest was enough to scare Kenneth straight for a little 10:28 bit. 10:28 A little bit. 10:28 But in the years that followed his brush with the law, he did everything he could 10:32 to make a living outside of a criminal life. 10:34 He found work as a mechanics assistant, so he put his, you know, theft days 10:37 to good use. 10:38 Hell yeah. 10:39 But when that fell through, he found a job as a mason's assistant and that 10:43 fell through. 10:43 But finally, he landed a long-term position as a private chauffeur, which I never really 10:49 saw for him. 10:50 Yeah, I guess. 10:51 But I guess cars. 10:52 There you go. 10:52 He's sticking with cars. 10:53 So with so many people traveling regularly between the Cape and New York at the time, 10:57 he was earning decent money for someone his age. 10:59 But it seemed that no matter what he did, he was never able to save much of what 11:03 he took home each pay period. 11:05 Among other things, his time behind the wheel had earned him a surprising number 11:09 of traffic tickets that typically wiped out whatever was left after he paid his bills. 11:15 According to one former client, he never allowed another car to pass him on the road. 11:20 Damn. 11:20 Which I relate too heavily. 11:21 Damn. 11:22 I used to get so many tickets when I was younger. 11:25 When I worked on Newberry Street, I got like six tickets in one day once. 11:28 That's a record. 11:29 They were parking tickets. 11:30 I think that meter lady had it out for me. 11:33 I would say so. 11:33 Yeah. 11:34 I paid them though. 11:35 Well, while he managed to find a legal means of making a living, it didn't mean 11:38 that his activities outside of work were necessarily legal. 11:42 In the middle of prohibition, 11:44 that didn't stop people like Kenneth or his brother Cyril 11:47 from making and selling their own liquor. 11:50 That's a moonshine up in here. 11:51 Yeah, well, back then it was referred to sometimes 11:53 as rum running. 11:54 Oh, I love that. 11:55 Rum runners. 11:56 Yeah. 11:57 Their mother Bertha never really cared 11:58 for the company that Kenneth kept 12:00 and she especially didn't like the quote, 12:02 parade of bootleggers who came and went outside 12:04 their house at all hours of the night. 12:06 This is so 1920s coded. 12:08 I'm so obsessed with it. 12:10 Little did the mom know, rum running was the least of Kenneth's bad habits, though. 12:15 According to a former neighbor, Kenneth was a window peaker. 12:19 Oh, fuck Kenneth. 12:21 Yeah. 12:21 Kenneth. 12:22 Yeah. 12:23 I was out here being like, you know what? 12:24 You got to do what you got to do during the Great Depression era. 12:27 You didn't know everything about Kenneth. 12:28 Like, you know, coming up on the Great Depression. 12:30 Fuck you, Kenneth. 12:31 Fuck you. 12:32 I also know now that you kidnap, so fuck you. 12:35 He does a lot of bad things, stupid Ken. 12:37 One neighbor apparently caught him in the act and one night fired a 45 out the window at him. 12:42 Hell yeah. 12:43 Yeah. 12:44 Get the fuck out of my window. 12:45 Yeah. 12:46 They didn't hit him, but it was enough to scare him. 12:48 Fuck Kenneth. 12:49 Now interestingly though, even after he was arrested on the very serious charge of kidnapping 12:54 and also everybody knew that he was a peeping Tom, the locals in Harwich had a hard time 13:00 speaking or even thinking badly of Kenneth Buck. 13:04 Huh. 13:04 Yeah. 13:05 I had that like small town working class vibe. 13:09 Yeah. 13:10 So the residents were protective of each other, 13:12 regardless of their flaws, I guess. 13:14 I don't know if you can really like 13:16 dumb down kidnapping to a flaw though. 13:19 Yeah. 13:20 You can't. 13:22 I can't. 13:23 No one can. 13:24 Yeah, we shouldn't. 13:25 We won't. 13:26 But that's horrific. 13:29 Yeah, but back then they did. 13:31 And as far as the town's folks went, 13:33 on. They were just like, yeah, there's people worse than Kenneth Buck. I mean, yeah, you can 13:38 say that in a lot of instances, but like, is that really the barometer we want to run with here? 13:43 Not me. Yeah. Now, apparently, aside from his brief brush with the law as a teenager and, 13:48 you know, his peeping on the neighbors, he was pretty well liked. Just a few years earlier, 13:52 he actually ran for the newly established position of Constable and almost won. 13:58 I'm going to need everyone to get it together in this town. 14:01 which is another weird parallel to animals. 14:04 Yeah. 14:04 We just have like. 14:05 Oh yeah, it is. 14:06 Elections. 14:06 Yeah, that's wild. 14:08 That's wild. 14:09 Now eventually, you know, 14:10 in between peeping into windows 14:11 and getting traffic tickets, 14:13 he did eventually get married and have a son. 14:15 Oh, great. 14:16 So, more than just the townspeople liked him, 14:18 his wife and his son really liked him. 14:20 Oh, good. 14:21 People knew him as a pretty solid family man. 14:24 He was very devoted to them. 14:26 You say so. 14:27 That's what they say. 14:28 One journalist wrote, Kenneth is so wrapped up 14:31 in his love of his little boy that it furnished 14:33 and added amazement that he could be so heartless 14:36 as to steal Peggy McMath. 14:39 Yeah. 14:40 I mean, he cares about what's his, not anybody else's. 14:42 It's wild to have your own child and kidnap somebody else's. 14:45 Yeah, cause it's like, are you really, 14:46 like you really can't put yourself 14:47 in that other parent's shoes? 14:49 Yeah, that lacks so much empathy. 14:51 Now, it is almost impossible to overstate the effect 14:55 that the Great Depression had in the US. 14:57 even people who never bothered to invest in the stock market 15:00 and really didn't have a lot of money in the bank to begin with, 15:02 suffered some kind of fallout from the crisis. 15:05 And for Kenneth Buck, that fallout came 15:07 when he was laid off his job as a chauffeur 15:09 for a family in Harwich and a family in New York, 15:13 both needing to make cuts after the crash of the stock market. 15:16 Now, never really having to, 15:18 never really being able to save much money to begin with, 15:21 the loss of both driving jobs at the same time 15:24 was a major blow to Kenneth. 15:25 Yeah, and at that point he wasn't able to provide for his wife and son. Oh shit 15:30 So with no income he and his wife decided to move back in with Kenneth's mother 15:34 The move saved them some money 15:36 But obviously he still had bills to pay and a family to feed which was getting harder and harder to do on 15:41 Whatever wages he could scrape together 15:43 So one afternoon a few months after he'd been laid off 15:47 He heard that the McMath family had just fired the caretaker at their vacation home in Harwich 15:52 which, and he immediately went to the home to apply for the position. 15:56 Like many others around the country, Neil McMath had found himself needing to kind of 16:01 reprioritize in the wake of the market crash. 16:04 He was the son of famed civil engineer Francis McMath, and he had developed for himself 16:09 a sterling reputation as an engineer and made a fortune in the Detroit steel industry 16:15 right before the crash. 16:17 So he still had some money, like some good money, but he needed to make changes 16:22 It doesn't kind of tighten his belt 16:23 if he wanted to survive everything. 16:25 So they sold the family home in Detroit 16:27 and they moved him, his wife and his daughter Peggy 16:30 into the family vacation home in Harwich. 16:33 Now that they were gonna be living there full-time, 16:35 there was really no need for a living caretaker. 16:37 So Neil let theirs go after 12 years of service. 16:40 And that's what Kenneth Buck had heard about. 16:43 So Kenneth Buck shows up at their door one day 16:45 in the spring of 1933. 16:47 And he's like, I would love to be your new caretaker. 16:50 No, thank you, Kenneth. 16:51 But Neil explained to the situation that, yeah, they let the previous caretaker go recently, 16:56 but it was- We're not looking for another one. 16:58 Well, and it was for lack of need, like it wasn't because he sucked or anything, 17:01 so there was no job to be had. So that interaction, however brief it was, 17:07 and it seemed like it was pretty fucking brief, would prove far more significant 17:10 than either would have ever imagined. Kenneth had penned his hopes on getting that job, 17:16 and when it became clear that the position wasn't available, 17:18 he lost what he saw as his last option. 17:22 But then he got another idea, 17:24 the little light bulb over his head. 17:25 I bet this is a great one. 17:26 Said ding, and he later told the court, 17:28 I just thought of it. 17:29 I needed money, and it came to my mind 17:31 that I could get it this way. 17:33 Yeah. 17:33 So he spent a few days thinking over 17:35 his absolutely diabolical plan. 17:38 He would kidnap 10-year-old Peggy McMath 17:41 and ransom her back to her family, 17:43 who obviously had enough money to pay a reasonable price. 17:46 Hey, Kenneth. 17:47 Fuck you. 17:48 Fuck yourself. 17:48 We hate you. 17:49 Yeah. 17:50 Yeah. 17:50 And he said he figured kidnapings happened every day so it couldn't really be that 17:53 hard to successfully pull one off and he didn't plan to hurt anybody. 17:57 Yeah. 17:57 And like, don't worry about traumatizing the child. 17:59 That's the thing. 18:00 We don't have to worry about that. 18:01 I love that he's easy. 18:02 Nobody has to get hurt. 18:04 Except the fucking trauma that this little girl is about to endure. 18:08 In her family. 18:08 Yeah. 18:09 Yeah. 18:09 Hello. 18:10 But don't worry because it'll be easy. 18:11 I'd call that hurt. 18:12 That's what matters. 18:13 So, on the morning of May 2nd, Kenneth decided it was time to set his plan into motion. 18:18 But then something occurred to him. 18:20 He had been at the MacMalfouse. 18:22 They knew his face. 18:23 Yeah, they sure did. 18:24 My family had seen him. 18:25 They could identify him easily. 18:27 So needing to disguise his appearance, he decided to be an asshole times 47 and he 18:33 gathered up as many cork stoppers as he could and took them out to the woods behind 18:38 his mom's house and burned them all. 18:39 With the remains of the cork and a pile on the ground, he then scooped up the ashy substance 18:45 and started wiping it all over his face. 18:49 And he was now wearing what he considered, and what we all would consider, blackface. 18:57 Kenneth. 18:58 Hello? 18:59 Kenneth. 19:00 Hello? 19:02 Ken. 19:03 Why? 19:05 Ken really? 19:06 Really. 19:07 Really Ken? 19:07 Because he figured, he said later, that if anybody saw him during the kidnapping, they 19:12 would think that Peggy was taken by a black man. 19:14 So now he's added racism into this kidnapping scheme. 19:19 Can. 19:20 Yeah. 19:20 Now, obviously- 19:22 I'm astounded at the stupidity of this man. 19:24 We all are. 19:25 Truly. 19:26 Obviously, it didn't occur to him that black face is not even remotely similar to the 19:30 natural coloring of black and brown skin. 19:33 And it also didn't help matters that he'd done a really bad job applying all the 19:36 Soot in the first place the sides of his face were far darker than the coloring around his eyes nose and mouth 19:43 And because he's a moron he also just missed a few spots. Yeah, so he's just gonna look like a monster 19:48 Yeah, 100% yeah, so after donning what he believed was a disguise 19:53 Kenneth drove to the post office and so he went out into public like this by the way like people saw him 19:58 Yeah, that's not shocking. Yeah, and he placed a call to Peggy's school 20:01 identifying himself as her father 20:03 and saying that he was sending a driver 20:05 to pick up his daughter early 20:06 and she needed to be ready out front 20:08 when the man arrived. 20:09 Damn. 20:10 And the school said, you got it. 20:11 Oh! 20:12 It was the 30s. 20:14 It was the 30s. 20:15 I hate it. 20:16 Yeah. 20:17 I hate it. 20:18 As journalist Alex Kingsbury wrote, 20:20 a more impulsive villain might have 20:21 sped directly to the schoolhouse 20:22 to snatch Peggy before 20:23 anybody caught onto his roost, 20:25 but Buck was not that kind of criminal. 20:27 No, of course not. 20:28 So instead he lingered outside 20:30 of the post office for a while before going back in and placing a second call, this time 20:34 to the McMath House. When somebody answered on the other end, he identified himself as an employee 20:39 with the phone company and asked the McMaths to leave their phone off the hook for 10 minutes 20:44 while they conducted some tests on the line. Later, when she was interviewed by police, 20:49 Mrs. McMath noted that she thought it was pretty strange when she heard the sound of a coin 20:53 being dropped into the phone box and she wondered why an employee from the phone company 20:57 he would be calling her from a pay phone. 20:59 Yeah, that is curious. 21:00 Yeah. 21:01 But now Kenneth was confident 21:02 that nobody from the school 21:03 would be calling the MacMath house to verify the pickup. 21:06 So he got in his car when he drove over to the school 21:09 where Peggy was outside waiting just by the front door. 21:12 He approached her. 21:13 I'm gonna beat the shit out of Ken. 21:15 Yeah, me too. 21:16 Retroactively, let's beat his butt. 21:18 Yeah. 21:19 He approached her and he said 21:20 that her mom had sent him to pick her up 21:22 and that she was to go with him and he'd bring her home. 21:25 And he's wearing the stuff on his face? 21:26 Yes 21:28 Okay, he looks terrifying. Yeah, so whether it was that or just the general air of menace that surrounded Kenneth Buck 21:34 Peggy found something off about him and she hesitated and she remembered that they did have a black driver in the past 21:41 But she was like that's definitely not this guy. She's like, yeah, this is not a black man 21:44 No, this is clearly a monster 21:46 But before she could go back inside the school or alert anybody 21:50 He grabbed her by the arm and pulled her into the passenger seat of the car telling her shut up or I'll chloroform you 21:56 Oh, yeah. I hope Kenneth is wherever he is. He's getting the shit kicked out of him daily. 22:02 I believe in the universe and I believe that he is. 22:05 Fuck this guy. Yeah. 22:07 That's why I always tell your kids, obviously this was a long time ago, 22:10 always tell your kids that no one's going to pick them up except for you. 22:14 People that they know. Yes, like you'll never send a stranger to pick your child up. 22:18 No. So now safely away from the school, he drove to a nearby wooded area that was isolated 22:24 and off the main street. 22:25 And after pulling over, he yanked Peggy out of the car, 22:28 tied her hands and feet. 22:30 She's 10. 22:31 She's 10. 22:31 This is really awful. 22:33 She's not assaulted sexually, so that's something 22:37 that we should all hold onto about. 22:38 He put a gag in her mouth, and he laid her in the back seat. 22:42 Once she was secured, he pulled back onto the road 22:44 and drove a short distance to just a random shack 22:47 alongside a cranberry bog, 22:49 and that's where he mostly held her for ransom. 22:51 them. And he's like, it'll be easy. No one's going to get hurt. 22:56 I'm just going to leave this 10 year old in a cranberry bog. 22:58 You have destroyed this child for the rest of her life. You fucking asshole. 23:01 100%. So having pulled off the first phase of his, you know, 23:05 ridiculous plan here, 23:07 most kidnappers probably would have stayed with the victim to ensure that 23:11 nothing went wrong. 23:13 But Kenneth Buck was not most criminals as we've all been finding out 23:16 together. After leaving Peggy at the shack, 23:19 He left and went down the road to meet his friend Walter Kahoon for a round of golf 23:25 After he's just kidnapped and placed a ten-year-old girl bound in a shack by a cranberry bug went to go play a round of golf 23:35 Yeah, okay. Yeah, this is the same Kenneth that everyone's like. Yeah, I don't know. He's a good guy 23:40 It's the wildest thing. Yeah, that's insane. It's the wildest thing shameful truly now leaving your victim alone 23:45 is a pretty unwise thing to do in and of itself, obviously, but he took the extra risk of talking 23:51 about his crimes with his friend Walter. He told the man that he'd foolishly agreed to, quote, 23:56 watch him hooch for a gang of bootleggers. But when he showed up, it turned out not to be 24:01 moonshine, but a little girl that the gang was holding for ransom. Just playing around to golf. 24:09 So he'd golf talk. He just told his friend over around to golf that he was watching a 24:14 kidnapping victim like sorry I'm late. 24:16 Sorry. 24:17 Sorry I'm late. 24:18 I had to keep an eye on a kidnapping victim 24:20 that I didn't kidnap. 24:23 Hello? 24:24 This is like unbelievable. 24:27 It really is. 24:28 Now when Peggy didn't get off the bus after school, 24:30 her parents immediately knew that something was wrong. 24:33 Just your worst nightmare. 24:35 Literally a parent's worst nightmare. 24:37 The entire time I was watching animals, 24:38 I was like, this is fake worst nightmare ever. 24:41 This is real. 24:42 Yeah. 24:43 Yeah. 24:43 It's like I can't imagine putting myself in this headspace. 24:47 So Mrs. McMath called the school and she was told that her husband had instructed them 24:51 to send Peggy home with the driver hours earlier. 24:54 And she was like, no, we certainly did not. 24:56 And knowing that he had not made that call, Neil called the police around 3.30 and reported 25:01 his daughter missing. 25:02 I can't believe, I know it was a long time ago, but it's like I can't believe 25:05 that our brains didn't understand back then that like you should probably make 25:09 Make sure that when someone picks a child up from school that they actually know that 25:12 person and that the parents had actually called. 25:15 You should never send it. 25:16 Like, why did that take us so long to be like, we should confirm that? 25:19 Imagine just sending a 10-year-old out in the front of the school and being like, ah, 25:22 your driver's going to be here. 25:23 Whatever adult comes to pick you up, just go with that person. 25:26 Like, it's like, there were kidnappings. 25:28 They were happening. 25:29 Yeah. 25:29 They were trending. 25:29 So it's like, maybe we should think about that. 25:31 And like, really put some safety protocols into place. 25:34 I think that's wild. 25:35 It took too long. 25:36 Well, under the circumstances, investigators were more or less certain that Peggy had been 25:40 kidnapped because they knew it was trending. 25:43 And emergency bulletins were sent out across New England, as far south as New York, and 25:48 as far north as the Canadian border. 25:50 With the Lindbergh case not that far behind them, it was at the front of everybody's 25:54 mind that, even in cases of ransom, things can go horribly wrong and end tragically. 25:59 So the press was not immediately made aware of the kidnapping. 26:04 But when the night came and they still hadn't found any sign of Peggy or heard from her 26:08 captor, it became pretty clear to Neil McMath that they would need the help of the newspaper 26:13 if they were going to recover Peggy safely. 26:16 So the next morning, the press was informed of Peggy's kidnapping, and the McMaths held 26:21 a press conference to address the kidnapper directly. 26:24 Neil said, all I'm interested in is the return of the child. 26:27 That is our whole concern. 26:28 I will pay all I can raise kidnappers and will not prosecute if the child is returned." 26:34 Now there was also mention of an agreed-upon 48-hour moratorium 26:38 between the McMaths and the police, meaning that if everything was solved within that 48-hour period, 26:43 the police would stay out of it, which was a thing back then. 26:46 That's crazy. 26:47 Yeah, I think it was just in the hopes to get more kids home alive because like, okay, you won't face consequences. 26:54 Yeah, like just bring the child home. 26:55 Yeah. But the details on that moratorium are a little unclear when it comes to whether 27:00 or not the local police actually agreed to that. 27:03 That's interesting. 27:03 And eventually the state police got involved anyway, so it was kind of null and void. 27:07 But after Neil McMath had made a statement, investigators stepped in to provide the 27:11 few details that they had. At the time they believed they were, quote, dealing with 27:14 a desperate band of kidnappers and hoped that they could be reasoned with. I don't 27:19 know why they thought they were dealing with a band of kidnappers. I think that 27:22 was just like a theory that they really went with. 27:24 Interesting. 27:25 But they spent the previous day and night conducting a thorough search across the Cape, paying 27:29 particular attention to passing cars, and they still hadn't found any signs of little 27:33 Peggy anywhere. 27:35 The press conference closed with Neil McMath reminding the kidnappers that he and his wife 27:39 would be waiting in the front room of their home for anybody to send any kind of information 27:45 about a ransom demand. 27:56 Let's take a break to thank the sponsor of today's episode, Netflix. 28:00 We're covering some intense topics today, guys, and the big takeaway here is that no 28:05 one can imagine how they would react to somebody they love being threatened or in some kind 28:10 of intense trouble. 28:12 It's impossible to know who to trust, even the ones that you think you trust the most 28:16 in your life, who to rely on, how to navigate these kinds of situations. 28:20 And we see this all play out in the film Animals as this mayoral candidate and 28:25 his wife are working their way through super tense moments 28:28 trying to bring home their kidnapped son. 28:30 They're put in an inconceivable position, 28:33 multiple inconceivable positions to be honest, 28:36 after their son is kidnapped 28:37 and they have to make these tough decisions to get him back. 28:40 It's honestly a horrible thing to even conceive of. 28:44 I could not even picture being in that. 28:46 And the thing that really, I mean, the story brought me in 28:48 but also the people who are in this, come on. 28:51 So good. 28:52 We got Jillian Anderson, the queen herself. 28:56 Scully, she's a national treasure. 28:59 She's so good. 29:00 And she is serving in this. 29:03 She looks stunning in that white power suit, 29:06 red bottom shoes, she looks amazing. 29:09 And she's also just fierce. 29:10 Oh, fierce in every sense of the word. 29:13 Truly fierce. 29:15 And when everything starts breaking down 29:16 when the chaos ensues, 29:18 she feels like she is truly the grounding force here. 29:21 No, she really does. The characters are also they felt like flawed but so real at the same time like Abby, Mark, Sam 29:28 They feel like fully realized human beings with these very complex lives that are ongoing throughout this and horrible situation 29:35 I love that and I like that this movie doesn't flinch away from the ugly parts of life and the things that are like 29:42 Haunting them while they're being thrust into this nightmare and the setup at the beginning like with spoiling anything 29:48 showing them navigating through daily things 29:51 that we all live through, 29:52 all while something nefarious was afoot, 29:54 it freaked me out, like to say the least. 29:57 Stay safe, stay safe, brother, truly. 30:00 And I think one of the things about this movie 30:02 that's so impressive too, 30:04 it's kind of going right off of what you just said 30:06 is that everyone has so many facets. 30:08 It's like peeling away an onion as you watch it. 30:11 There are twists, there are turns, 30:13 like even the story feels like 30:14 a little onion you're peeling around. 30:15 it was incredibly well-written, so well-performed. 30:20 And the direction got my, I was like, 30:23 my aura ring was yelling at me. 30:24 It was like, your pulse is up. 30:25 Literally heart pounding. 30:27 That's the thing, while I was watching, 30:28 I was sitting there trying to put myself in their shoes, 30:31 like as much as I could without losing my mind. 30:33 Because I would lose my ever-loving mind 30:36 in this situation. 30:37 And the performances were just so raw, so real 30:41 that I would get you. 30:42 I was dialed in. 30:43 And I just wanted everybody to get through the film unscathed somehow. 30:48 Yes. 30:49 It really is. 30:50 It's like the pacing of the film, the direction of the film. 30:52 There were so many moments during the whole thing where I didn't even realize that I was holding my breath. 30:57 No, same. 30:58 And there's this one particular montage that happens that just set me off. 31:03 Yeah. 31:03 Again, I'm surprised it wasn't like, hey, are you dead? 31:07 Hey, we're checking in on you. 31:09 Are you going to survive watching this film? 31:11 No, it was an intense watch, but my gosh, it's so good. 31:15 Watch animals now playing only on Netflix rated R. 31:23 So unfortunately, after 48 hours, 31:26 the investigation had not amounted to much. 31:29 Their house-to-house canvas hadn't turned up any leads. 31:32 They did come across a report of a summer cottage 31:34 along the beach that had been broken into, 31:36 and they believed that was connected to the kidnapping, 31:39 but it ultimately led nowhere. 31:41 And investigators did find somebody who witnessed the crime. 31:45 One of Peggy's fellow students, 10-year-old Jack Shostney, 31:50 or Shaughnessy, excuse me. 31:51 Jack told the police she didn't want to get in the car. 31:54 The man pulled her inside and she started to cry. 31:57 He told her to shut up and drove away to North Harwich, 32:00 which, can we talk about a 10-year-old knowing which direction North is? 32:04 I know, that was actually really impressive. 32:06 If you asked me at 10 years old which direction they drove in, 32:09 and I'd be like to the McDonald's over there, I don't know. 32:12 He also provided a description of the man, 32:14 which went out on the wire to newspapers around the country. 32:17 He said he was five foot eight inches, about 150 pounds, 32:20 thin build, very black, color did not look natural. 32:24 Like by the way. 32:25 Even a fucking 10 year old was like, 32:27 that's not a black man, 32:29 he just had black stuff on his face. 32:32 Now Kenneth Buck's plan seemed on his end of things 32:35 to be going smoothly, 32:36 but the press conference threw him 32:37 something of a curveball. He had concocted and executed the entire plan by himself, 32:43 but now the McMath's offer of the ransom, which he was literally after all along, 32:49 offered a new challenge. How was he going to go to the house with the ransom demand 32:54 without revealing himself as the kidnapper? He literally wouldn't think that through before. 33:01 It's going to be easy. 33:03 Hello? 33:03 Yeah, it's going to be easy. Don't worry about it. 33:05 So, short on ideas, he turned to his brother, Cyril, and begged him to act as a liaison between 33:11 himself and the McMaths. 33:13 If their assurances had been genuine, there would be no risk of Cyril being arrested, 33:17 or so they thought. 33:18 I love you. 33:19 No, I love you too. 33:20 I won't do that for you. 33:21 I'm not gonna. 33:22 I would do anything for you, but I won't do that. 33:25 But I won't do that. 33:26 No, I won't do that. 33:27 As Milov would say. 33:28 Yeah. 33:29 Yeah. 33:29 Ooh, not Milov. 33:30 No. 33:33 Not Milov. 33:34 Rip, I guess. 33:36 So Cyril never really minded getting mixed up 33:39 in the bootlegging schemes, but this was next level. 33:42 Good. 33:42 Cyril's like, no. 33:43 Oh, I'm not, I'm giving him too much credit. 33:45 I said, honey, wait. 33:47 I said, Cyril, just stay with the bootlegging. 33:49 I know. 33:49 He was like, this is kind of a lot. 33:51 But at the same time, 33:53 he never ignored his brother's pleas for help. 33:55 Oh, fuck that. 33:56 He saw no reason to start then. 33:58 So he was like, start it then. 33:59 Sure. 34:00 I see about a billion reasons to start then. 34:03 as do I, my friend. 34:05 Now, taking Peggy's lunchbox and a handwritten note 34:11 from her is proof of life. 34:12 I'm gonna kill him both. 34:14 I can't say it. 34:15 I'm gonna kick him in the shins. 34:17 Yeah, yeah. 34:18 Till they fall over and hit their head on concrete. 34:22 And then whatever happens after that happens. 34:24 Period. 34:24 That's what I say. 34:25 I like that a lot. 34:27 So armed with that, Cyril went to the McMath's house 34:29 and identified himself as just the go-between. 34:31 In addition to the items he brought us proof, he also handed over a ransom note demanding 34:39 $250,000, which today would be $6.4 million. 34:48 Fuck you, Kenneth. 34:50 Come on. 34:51 It's the Great Depression. 34:51 Are you kidding me? 34:53 It's the Great Depression. 34:53 Are you kidding me? 34:55 Yeah. 34:55 And like this family was well off, but $6.4 million. 34:59 in dollars, not everybody just has access to that. 35:02 Not, no. 35:02 Hello? 35:03 What the fuck? 35:04 I can't stop saying hello. 35:06 That's all you can say for this. 35:07 Truly. 35:08 So this, this sum was shocking 35:09 and obviously quite upsetting. 35:11 Neil told Cyril, there's not that much money in Detroit. 35:14 If Peggy's return depends on my raising 35:16 that amount of money, then I've lost my daughter. 35:18 Oh, that's awful. 35:19 Like he was like, I literally 35:20 And can you imagine how her parents felt her? 35:23 Like they're like, holy shit, 35:24 we're never going to get her back. 35:26 Yeah. 35:27 Like, nightmare. 35:28 Nightmare, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare. 35:29 Truly. 35:30 So given that the state police had said 35:32 they wouldn't be adhering to the proposed moratorium, 35:34 Neil McMath wanted to do everything he could 35:36 to keep investigators away from the case. 35:39 Which is, you know, I get it. 35:43 Like, would I do it? 35:44 Probably not, but it's a tough situation 35:47 that's happening here. 35:48 So when he was asked about whether or not 35:50 he'd been contacted by the kidnappers, 35:52 he told investigators that he believed Peggy 35:55 was being hold in Mashpee, 35:56 knowing that it would divert attention away from Harwich. 35:59 Cyril said this? 36:00 No. 36:01 Oh, he was trying to divert attention. 36:03 He was diverting attention, yeah. 36:04 He said, I was doing everything in my power 36:06 to secure the safe return of my child. 36:08 I wanted that in spite of the police, 36:10 the state of Massachusetts and the whole country. 36:13 He's just trying to do what he thinks is right. 36:15 You're in a state of- 36:16 I'm not saying I would do the same thing, 36:18 but I can't say what I would do in that situation. 36:20 No, you're in a state of absolute desperation. 36:22 I mean, we saw it in animals. 36:24 Yeah. 36:25 And in the meantime Cyril returned to his brother 36:28 and was like, hey, they don't have that much money. 36:32 And like, the entire state doesn't have that much money, 36:35 so. 36:35 And he was like, what's your plan? 36:37 Yeah, he's like, that was stupid. 36:38 What are you gonna do here? 36:39 Which you would kind of, I'm like, 36:40 Cyril, did you think for one second to be like, 36:42 hey, brother, since I'm helping you out with this, 36:46 you shouldn't demand that much. 36:48 Like I'd be like, you should probably 36:49 bring that number down. 36:51 It seems that they may have had 36:52 that kind of conversation. 36:54 Yeah, there we go. 36:54 Because not wanting to blow the opportunity. 36:56 No, you gotta get paid. 36:57 The grand opportunity here. 36:59 You wanna get that bag? 37:00 Kenneth was like, all right, all right, all right. 37:02 Offer them $60,000. 37:05 Like, that's the price. 37:06 That came down significantly. 37:08 It's so significant. 37:09 When I told, what did I say? 37:10 It was $6.4 million, right? 37:12 Yeah, it's $250,000. 37:14 Yeah. 37:14 Today, that'd be $1.5 million. 37:16 Damn. 37:16 Still a lot of money. 37:17 A lot of money, but that came down significantly. 37:19 But like, who taught you how to bargain? 37:20 Yeah. 37:21 That's bad bargaining. 37:22 It was like, five. 37:22 Neil obviously accepted, and he started making arrangements to get the money. 37:27 The plan was that once he secured the money, 37:30 Neil himself would go beat the kidnappers in the cabin of a boat belonging to his business partner, Billy. 37:36 And when he arrived that evening to literally give money in exchange to get his daughter back, 37:41 Neil was met by Cyril and Kenneth Buck. 37:44 Kenneth was wearing a burlap sack hood with eye holes. 37:49 Get out of here. 37:49 Nylon stockings on his hands. 37:51 Get out of here and boots that were several sizes too large just to throw everybody off 37:59 Get the get out of here. He's I just get out of town. I love that this man thinks he's a genius 38:05 He's like you will never know 38:09 Costumes slash disguise slash tomfoolery whatever you want to call it straight up tomfoolery and he was like 38:14 I am the smartest kidnapper that ever did not he said nylons on my hands. Yeah, we good 38:20 You don't even know if I have hands they might be feet maybe cuz they are nylons 38:25 Check it who could tell it's ridiculous 38:30 Can't identify me as having hands they may I say no no 38:34 So the second phase of his plan was as simple as the first his plan. Yeah, I it's a stretch to you 38:40 They call it that they would receive the cash for McMath then Kenneth still in his quote-unquote disguise 38:46 would fetch Peggy from the shack 38:48 where he'd been holding her and return her to her father. 38:51 Looking like that. 38:52 Looking like that. 38:53 That won't hurt anyone. No. 38:54 Once they were reunited, 38:56 Neil and Peggy would remain in the cabin of the bow 38:58 under Cyril's watch for a full 48 hours, 39:01 giving Kenneth then ample time to make his escape 39:04 before anybody could call the police. 39:06 48 hours? 39:07 Yeah, he's gotta get out of there, Elena. 39:08 You better have so many snacks in there. 39:11 Honestly. 48 hours? 39:12 It's a long time. 39:13 time. I think he had already held her for like sixty. Jesus. Yeah. Now, after leaving 39:19 the boat with the money, Kenneth held up his end of the bargain for turning a short time 39:23 later with Peggy, delivered safely to her father as promised. After completing the 39:28 drop, Kenneth left the boat, leaving the McMaths under his brother's responsibility 39:32 for the next 48 hours. Unfortunately, though, for Kenneth, the news of Peggy's return 39:38 somehow made its way back to the state police. 39:41 Somehow. 39:41 And public safety general Daniel Needham 39:45 contacted the Coast Guard 39:46 and arranged for a patrol to search the boat. 39:49 Hell yeah. 39:49 When sailors arrived at the dock and entered the cabin, 39:52 they found Peggy inside along with Neil, 39:54 Cyril Buck and Harold Sawyer, 39:56 who was the banker who had delivered the money. 39:58 All four men were immediately arrested 40:00 and taken into custody along with Peggy. 40:03 Not arrested obviously, but taken into custody. 40:05 And they were taken to the state police barracks 40:07 to be questioned. Despite being extremely irritated with Neil MacMath for defying their 40:12 orders and fully thwarting their efforts to save his daughter, investigators actually 40:17 didn't really believe that he had anything to do with the kidnapping. 40:20 Cyril, on the other hand, had a criminal history and a connection to another criminal, 40:24 his brother, Kenneth. 40:25 Yeah. 40:26 So after hours of interrogation, he gave up his brother as the kidnapper and told 40:31 police where he could find him, where they could find him. 40:34 Cyril is a wild sibling. 40:37 Cyril is, like he was ride or die to a fault for a minute 40:41 and I was like, you're too much of a sibling, 40:43 like that's too much. 40:45 Too far. 40:45 And now he's like, why don't I just give you up? 40:47 And it's like, you have no median? 40:50 Like there's no median. 40:51 Yeah, Cyril doesn't know a lot about the median. 40:53 He's here for a good time, not a long time. 40:55 Truly, yeah. 40:56 Now Peggy was also shown a lineup of several men 40:58 and she identified Kenneth as the man 41:00 who wore the mask immediately. 41:01 And she said the mask looked like a bunny, which is so scary. 41:07 I didn't like that. 41:08 Not a cute bunny, I'm sure. 41:09 No. 41:10 Now, having not had adequate time to make his escape, 41:13 detectives quickly caught up with Kenneth and arrested him immediately. 41:16 Because he's an idiot. 41:17 At first, he tried the same story on police that he used on his friend a few days earlier. 41:22 He said he agreed to watch over that large stash of rum for some local bootleggers. 41:26 But the rum turned out to be a kidnapping plot. 41:29 and he was really expected to look after Peggy. 41:32 Oh my God, when you're expecting rum and you get a kid, 41:34 it's crazy. 41:35 It's the most nuts thing that fucks me up every time. 41:39 It's crazy. 41:39 I never know what to do. 41:40 It happens so often. 41:41 I never planned for it. 41:42 I know. 41:42 It's crazy. 41:43 Next time. 41:44 Yeah. 41:44 Well, the problem was Kenneth had thought 41:46 through so many different aspects of his plan, 41:48 I guess, but that's an overstatement. 41:52 That's strong. 41:53 He had given them thought. 41:55 Yeah, he had given them a fraction of a thought. 41:58 But the one thing that he considered or forgot to consider all together was what he would do and say if he was caught 42:05 Yeah, because he really he really thought he was a mastermind. Yeah, he thought he had this 42:09 So as a result when he threw out that dumbass story about the bootleggers 42:12 It sounded so vague that detectives were like, yeah, that's not the truth want to try again 42:17 You idiot later that night when they searched his mother's house 42:20 They also found the entire ransom amount hidden hidden in his bedroom closet in his bedroom closet at his mom's house 42:27 Yeah, you could not be a bigger loser if you fucking tried truly couldn't Kenneth buck Kenneth loser buck 42:36 Yeah, so they were like, yeah pretty sure you did this all by yourself. You idiot when confronted with that discovery 42:41 Kenneth broke down and confessed everything. He said or when asked why he got I got me. He's like, oh, that's crazy 42:46 I shouldn't have put that in my closet should hit it under my bed instead. Yeah when asked why he had done that 42:51 You know a kidnapping a kid. Why'd you do that kid? 42:55 Yeah, honestly without nonchalant everybody is like that might be a direct quote that I just like 43:01 Like was medium to me. Why'd you do that? Why'd you do that? Why'd you do that stealing a kid? Why'd you why'd you go for that, buddy? 43:10 He just said it was for the sole purpose of the money 43:12 Yeah, he started crying as he told his story and he assisted that nobody else was involved in the case and that 43:19 Cyril had only acted as the go-between and had no other stake in the crime 43:22 I'm pretty sure Cyril wasn't even getting money out of this. 43:25 Did Cyril know where he was? 43:27 Did Cyril know what day of the week it was? 43:29 I feel like Cyril is just, he's just going. 43:31 I'm getting Uncle Fester vibes. 43:33 I'm getting somebody who just is like, okay. 43:35 Whatever. 43:36 Sure, whatever works. 43:38 I think he was just happy to be alive. 43:39 I'm getting someone who says whatever's clever most of, 43:42 a lot. 43:43 Whatever is clever was absolutely his like. 43:48 When you talked to Cyril, 43:49 he would just go whatever's clever. 43:51 Yeah, that was his yearbook quote, I think. 43:53 Now, given how extensively they'd searched the town 43:56 and the surrounding areas, it surprised Kenneth, he said, 43:58 that nobody had found Peggy in the shack. 44:01 In fact, not long after he dropped her there 44:03 and left to go play fucking nine holes. 44:05 That's what it is, right? Nine holes. 44:08 There's 18, I think. 44:09 Sometimes there's nine, sometimes there's 18. 44:11 Yeah, you can play half. 44:12 I bet he played full. He probably played all 18. 44:13 He played 18. 44:15 So, not long after he did that, 44:17 a small fire broke out in the wooded area 44:19 around the shack, which was believed to have been caused by one of his own smouldering cigarettes, 44:25 by the way. So he almost murdered this child as well. 44:29 Yeah, yeah. In by accident. 44:30 Maybe. Firefighters arrived quickly and extinguished the fire, but either nobody 44:34 thought to look inside the shed where Peggy was, or Kenneth had already moved her into the cellar 44:41 of an unoccupied house, which he later admitted to. He's disgusting. 44:45 He truly is and also he's like he's like lying to like make firefighters feel bad. I think yeah to be like 44:52 Oh you idiots. Yeah find her. It's like no, you're the worst here 44:55 I also but he knows it was a wily time to be alive 44:57 So maybe they didn't find her I'm not sure but despite the traumatic experience of having spent several days bound and gagged in a shed 45:04 And a cellar with absolutely no idea what was gonna happen. They're like dark at night and just like and call your cell 45:10 Probably, yeah. 45:12 But despite all of that, Peggy's return home 45:16 was treated with a brief period of fanfare 45:18 and excitement from the press, of course, 45:20 and then everything just returned back to normal. 45:23 The next Monday, Peggy went back to school 45:25 like nothing had ever happened. 45:28 Me, I'd bubble wrap my child 45:29 and never send them into the world again. 45:32 I would never send her to school again. 45:34 No, I'd be like, I'm gonna take up homeschooling. 45:36 And I know that's probably irrational, 45:38 but I literally don't get shit. 45:39 Oh, I know it's irrational. 45:40 I don't care. Yeah, I would also wrap her in bubble wrap. Yeah. No, she never leave my side. No, I feel like we're gonna be weird 45:46 No, but they were so 1930s about it according to author Alex Kingsbury who will link in the show notes 45:52 The family decided never to speak of the 60-hour ordeal ever again. Jesus Christ. That's healthy 45:57 It's the most it is right the most 46:01 1930s approach to anything I've ever heard in my life. They said hey all that trauma swallow that don't talk about it 46:07 Swallow it and get to school. You got homework to catch up. Oh, is it like bananas? That's 46:14 Like not even a new school either. I am school. She was kidnapped just seen of the crime 46:19 They said don't and I don't want to hear about being triggered get out of here. They said trigger 46:22 They said that's not even a word get out of here. They said honey 46:26 Holy shit, and then the people at school are just like uh, yeah, that's how you were kidnapped 46:30 And she's like I'm not supposed to talk about it again. Like yeah 46:33 Yeah. 46:33 What the fuck? 46:34 Yeah. 46:34 The administrators were like, we'll try not to do that again. 46:37 And then the kids are probably like, hey, what happened when you were kidnapped? 46:39 And she was like, I'm not allowed to talk about it. 46:41 Yeah. 46:41 She was like, I don't know. 46:42 We're never going to talk about it again. 46:43 What do you have for lunch? 46:45 Like I'm like, was it the same lunchbox that they stole from her and used as proof 46:50 of life? 46:52 Probably. 46:52 Absolutely. 46:53 It was a depression. 46:53 Of course it was. 46:54 They were going to fire another lunchbox. 46:55 That's so fucked. 46:56 That's outrageous. 46:57 When it's at a party. 46:59 Yeah. 46:59 Yeah. 47:00 All the time. 47:01 All the time. 47:02 Even outside of a party. 47:03 So the MacMath family may have wanted to forget the entire incident and put it all the way 47:08 behind them. 47:08 And then some. 47:09 But the state of Massachusetts was not so willing to forgive and forget. 47:12 No way. 47:13 Initially, Kenneth and Cyril were indicted on charges of kidnapping and extortion. 47:17 And they were both bound over for trial. 47:19 Confident that they had everything they needed to get a conviction. 47:22 The district attorney requested a trial date be set as soon as possible. 47:26 And the Bucks were scheduled to go to trial in mid-June. 47:29 Now, Kenneth Buck was so confident that his plan would be a success, he never saw this 47:34 outcome as even a remote possibility. 47:37 And when he learned of his rapidly approaching trial and likely conviction, he immediately 47:42 fainted in his cell. 47:43 And when he was revived, he, quote, started to thrash about until a doctor was called 47:48 in to sedate him. 47:50 Somebody should have just farted in his face. 47:53 That's one way to handle things. 47:55 Somebody should have given that guy a think, guy. 47:58 Yeah. 47:58 Period. Period, sister. 48:01 That's what we should do to kidnappers, fart in their faces. 48:05 I've never heard you make a fart joke quite like that. 48:09 I don't know if I've heard you make a fart joke. 48:11 I had way more awful shit to do. 48:15 And I felt like it was going to get too gnarly, 48:17 so I just went with the trying to. 48:20 You fully dumbed it down. 48:22 Somebody should fart in that guy's face. 48:25 Opposite of what I was thinking. 48:27 Crazy mama the total at their end of the spectrum is where I went 48:30 Well, here's the thing. It's unclear if anybody farted in his face 48:34 Or if he was setting the stage for an insanity defense, but if that was the case it didn't work 48:38 No, he was taken to the state psychiatric hospital in Bridgewater 48:42 Uh where he was evaluated and deemed sane and then he was returned back into the sheriff's custody 48:46 They were like, no, you're just an asshole and pretty much and some they said somebody should fart in your face 48:50 Now the trial started June 15th and the defense Willard Carlton 48:55 managed to score major victories right out of the gate. 48:58 I said the defense. 49:00 That's not good. 49:00 Part of Kenneth's confession was ruled inadmissible 49:04 and the prosecution had to admit that they had no evidence 49:07 that really implicated Cyril as anything 49:09 other than a contact man. 49:11 As for the confession, the judge determined 49:13 that Kenneth had inadvertently given his confession 49:15 during a conversation with detectives. 49:18 So under the circumstances, 49:20 it was unclear if he was aware 49:21 that he was confessing to kidnapping 49:23 And since they weren't sure if the confession was given voluntarily, most of it was ruled out. 49:29 I love how they're just like, we all know Ken's an idiot. 49:32 Yeah. 49:33 But I'm like, guys, at the end of the day, he kidnapped this kid. 49:36 At the end of the day, literally everyone knows he did it. 49:38 Like his own brother is like, yeah, it didn't happen. 49:41 Honestly, at the end of the day, can we all fart in his face? 49:43 Literally at once. 49:44 Let's collectively fart. 49:46 We'll go to Chipotle and then we'll get him. 49:50 So despite the very, like let's get serious, despite the very serious nature of the case 49:55 and the potential, honestly, we're kind of foreshadowing here. 49:59 There was a potential sentence, like a big potential sentence of either or both of them 50:04 was found guilty, but the trial had a remarkably lighthearted and at times even humorous tone. 50:09 That's horrifying. 50:11 It really is. 50:12 The 1930s were so fucking wily. 50:14 It really was. 50:14 For example, when asked to read back his statement that he gave to the police, 50:19 the jury was frequently stirred to laughter by the dramatic way in which Cyril read his statement 50:24 and the sarcastic side comments that he made while he was reading. 50:29 Here's the thing. What are you doing laughing at the person who helped commit this crime, 50:36 making funnies on the stand? Like, that's not where you laugh. 50:39 I have no idea. 50:40 That's not where you laugh. They're not funny men. 50:41 I have no idea. 50:42 when we laugh at them and say, you're dumb. 50:45 Yes. 50:46 And let's laugh at those funny men. 50:47 Yes. 50:48 They're being so dumb. 50:50 They're not something to enjoy. 50:52 Yeah, don't like build him up like that. 50:53 Hey, jury, shut up. 50:55 I mean, back then it was probably all men, 50:57 so just shut up. 50:58 Shut up. 50:58 Now in another incident, 50:59 while being questioned by the prosecution, 51:01 one of the investigators on the case 51:03 started laughing so hysterically 51:05 that the judge had to call a recess 51:07 to get everything under control. 51:09 Massachusetts. 51:10 I'm like, you're investigating the kidnapping of a 10-year-old girl from her school. 51:15 What was funny there? 51:17 I don't know what they were laughing at. 51:18 I got a bone to pick with 1930s Massachusetts. 51:21 So do I. 51:22 I really do. 51:22 Massachusetts is pretty unserious about a lot of things. 51:25 We love to be a little unserious, but that's too far. 51:29 This is too far. 51:29 Yeah. 51:30 Yeah. 51:30 Now, when Cyril was called to the stand by the prosecution, he did, at one point, 51:34 though, become so overwhelmed by emotion that he collapsed out of his chair and 51:38 had to be assisted back to the defense table. 51:40 What a little bitch. 51:41 And the judge had to call for another brief recess 51:44 for him to regain his composure. 51:46 When he returned. 51:47 Because he had such a delicate constitution. 51:48 He really does. 51:49 When he returned, he gave his account of events 51:52 claiming that he genuinely believed his brother 51:54 had been roped into the kidnapping scheme by bootleggers. 51:57 No, he didn't. 51:57 And he just wanted to help him get out unscathed. 51:59 I don't believe you. 52:00 As evidence of his ignorance, though, 52:02 he pointed out that he refused to accept the $10,000 52:05 offered to him by Kenneth. 52:06 So there was a small fee a fact that was verified by Neil McMath Peggy's own father when they were arrested upon discovery on the boat 52:15 Okay, so like so good that you didn't take the ten thousand dollars from yeah the kidnapping of that child 52:20 Yeah, that's great on June 26 1933 the jury deliberated for seven hours before returning to the courtroom to announce that they had found 52:28 Kenneth Buck guilty of kidnapping and extortion 52:31 and Cyril, on the other hand, was acquitted of both charges. 52:34 I had a feeling. 52:35 Yeah. 52:35 When the verdict was read aloud by the foreman, 52:37 Bertha Buck broke down into tears. 52:40 And while Cyril attempted to go to his brother's side, 52:44 he was restrained by the bailiff 52:45 because you're not allowed to do that. 52:46 Yeah, you can't do that. 52:47 No. 52:49 God, Cyril. 52:50 I know, it's ridiculous. 52:51 Right, leave. 52:52 Kenneth's lawyer was equally outraged. 52:54 He jumped to his feet and shouted, 52:56 I know the Commonwealth wants to make an example 52:58 of this case. 52:59 Why can't we have a sentence? 53:00 that is not too long! We can punish him for his crime and also help his poor mother, his wife, 53:05 and his little son!" How would I hit you in your face with a chair? Oh, you don't even get the 53:09 fart, boy. No, you get hit in the face with a chair. A chair to the head. Damn, that was such an 53:16 escalation. I went back to my roots. I found myself. I was being someone else before. 53:22 I like that Kenneth, you're gonna fart in his face, but his lawyer, you're gonna beat with 53:26 the chair. I feel we should switch that around, probably. 53:30 I let loose. 53:31 You did. 53:32 I let loose. 53:34 Now, the judge considered the request, but ultimately imposed a sentence of 25 years 53:39 in a work camp. When asked if he had anything to say on his behalf, Kenneth 53:42 pretended that he didn't do it again, I guess, and simply said, I told you 53:46 before I went to trial that I was to be framed. Now I have been framed. 53:51 Kenneth, they found the ransom in your closet. 53:54 But yeah, like at your mommy's house. It's up boy. The jig has been up. Come on 53:59 Now he appealed his conviction several times taking it all the way to the supreme court large state supreme court 54:05 Largely on the grounds that his confession had been elicited without his express consent yada yada yada 54:10 The stupid but each time it was denied and despite his criminal ways 54:14 He apparently turned out to be a model prisoner and he also even tried to join the army in 1944 to get out of jail 54:21 I'm pretty sure but his request was denied 54:24 And although nobody denied that he should have been punished for his crimes, 54:28 Oh God. 54:28 A surprising number of Cape Cod residents felt that the sentence was unduly harsh. 54:34 Guys? 54:35 You're not gonna believe this next part. 54:39 Even Neil McMath, 54:41 No. 54:41 Peggy's faja 54:43 became an advocate for Kenneth Buck in the mid-1940s, 54:46 appealing to the court to reduce his sentence and even offer him early parole. 54:51 Kenneth was paroled in 1949. 54:53 and just disappeared from the spotlight. 54:56 After the kidnapping, 54:58 the McMath family remained on Cape Cod for another year 55:00 and they just told Peggy not to talk about anything. 55:02 Yeah, sure. 55:03 Until Neil McMath accepted a job in Detroit 55:05 and they left Massachusetts. 55:08 In a statement to the press, 55:09 he said, please make it clear, 55:10 my leaving the Cape has nothing whatsoever 55:12 to do with the occurrence of last spring. 55:14 And he added that he and his family 55:15 still had a great- 55:16 Which we both talk about. 55:17 He was like, I'm not even gonna name it. 55:19 The incident. 55:20 The incident. 55:20 The incident capitalized. 55:22 And added that he and his family still had a great fondness for the community there and they intended to return for summers whenever possible 55:30 Trauma be doomed. Yeah 55:32 Now our girl Peggy. Yeah, how's Peggy doing in all this? 55:36 She went on to join the Navy as a meteorologist mate near the end of World War two. My girl is thriving. Can you say bad bitch? 55:44 Yeah, she rarely spoke of the kidnapping and really just 55:47 She wasn't really allowed to and she generally tried to just proceed with her life like it never happened 55:53 Wow, but it was clear to those who knew her best that there was trauma there 55:56 Yeah 55:57 She wasn't allowed to talk about it changed her in ways that she either couldn't or just wouldn't see yeah 56:02 Her daughter later told her reporter. She never ever ever got over it 56:05 Just pretended that she had a happy childhood and that was it woof now in 2014 56:09 She died from natural causes at the age of 91 56:12 Oh, my girl, her obituary made no mention of the kidnapping and her daughter believes that is what her mother would have wanted 56:20 To become such a remarkable woman 56:23 Seriously after all that at ten years old and and she herself had kids like had a daughter 56:29 She had a daughter at least I would be 56:32 She must have been terrified. I'm sure she was the same thing could happen. I'm sure but obviously it doesn't sound like it 56:36 You know affected or she like put it on her daughter. No Wow 56:40 What an incredible woman I'm so glad that Peggy thrived. Me too. She's honestly the winner 56:46 She's the biggest winner and to work out like for the fucking Navy at the end of World War two as a lady 56:52 Peggy. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, damn fuck Kenny 56:56 Fuck Kenny fuck anyone who thought that he was a completely nice guy fuck anyone who wouldn't have farted in his face 57:02 Truly, thank you so much to Netflix for sponsoring the episode today. It's holy shit 57:07 We loved animals, and wow, how similar was this? 57:10 Yeah, that really worked out. 57:12 Yeah, it did. 57:12 Yeah. 57:13 So we hope you keep listening. 57:14 And we hope you keep it weird. 57:17 But not so weird that you can cocked a, I guess, 57:20 not elaborate kidnapping scheme and still try to pull it off. 57:24 Don't do an elaborate one or a simple one. 57:25 No kidnapping scheme. 57:26 Stop kidnapping. 57:27 Don't do it. 57:28 Do keep it so weird that you fart in criminal spaces. 57:30 Take that up. 57:31 Take that up if you can. 57:33 Take that hobby up. 57:34 Bye. 57:34 Bye. 59:00 Thank you again to the sponsor of today's bonus episode of Morbid, Netflix. 59:05 How far would you go when somebody threatens everything you know, including your loved ones? 59:10 Who can you trust? 59:11 When a Los Angeles mayoral candidate's son is kidnapped, he and his wife are pulled 59:15 into this massive web of deception, and they're forced to make life-altering choices that 59:20 could tear their world apart. 59:22 From Academy Award winner Ben Affleck, Animal Stars Affleck himself, Kerry Washington, 59:27 Jillian Anderson and Steven Young. 59:30 And honestly, the performance is completely outstanding. 59:33 It's a stacked cast. 59:35 It really is. 59:36 And I just couldn't tear myself away from it. 59:38 I had to know how it ended. 59:40 It's one of those that you're just like, 59:41 nope, I'm here. 59:42 I'm sad. 59:43 I am glocked in. 59:44 I loved that it didn't have an ambiguous ending. 59:47 There is a time and place for that for sure. 59:50 Totally. 59:50 I can get down with an ambiguous ending, 59:52 but I needed to know all the details of this 59:55 after hanging out with all these people 59:57 during the worst night of their lives. 59:58 So I was like, give me an ending. 60:00 I need to know what's going on. 60:01 And without spoiling anything, it was, I was like, okay. 60:04 Yeah, all right. 60:05 I mean, also it is spooky season 60:08 and that might sound crazy, 60:09 but this is a different kind of scare. 60:11 It sure is. 60:12 Every parent's worst nightmare. 60:13 The worst kind of scare. 60:14 Yeah, it's the worst one. 60:16 And it's fascinating to watch how these characters 60:18 react to being kind of put in 60:20 like a metaphorical pressure cooker. 60:22 Yeah, for sure. 60:23 I mean, it's engrossing, completely engrossing. 60:25 I watched it with people but we were riveted and literally didn't speak to each other until it was 60:30 all over. Yeah I said, silencio. According to the interwebs by the way, they say the mood-heavy 60:37 tense trailers have drawn praise for building a dark unsettling atmosphere and I could not agree 60:42 more. Correct. They perfectly execute this movie and they make you, it almost feels like 60:48 you're like a fly on the wall just looking in on this family situation. Like you shouldn't 60:52 be there almost. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Watch animals now playing only on Netflix rated R.
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