The Homeland Security Trap? with Russell Moore & Elizabeth Neumann

What America Learned, Feared, and Forgot After 9/11

Former Trump White House security expert Elizabeth Neumann and theologian Russell Moore join Curtis Chang to consider whether America is safer—or simply more afraid—25 years after 9/11. They examine the war with Iran, immigration enforcement, domestic extremism, government overreach, and the church's complicity in fear-driven efforts. Together, they ask how Christians can confront legitimate threats without surrendering to fear, offering civic engagement, moral courage, and faithful "small refusals" to conform as a way forward.

03:14 - A 25-Year Review of Homeland Security

06:22 - A Theological View on "Homeland Security"

09:55 - How Do We Evaluate the War with Iran?

19:34 - Should Christians Trust the State?

24:01 - The Public's Disengagement from Government

28:54 - The Church's Role in Local Justice

33:59 - The Rise of Domestic Terrorism

40:52 - Is the Church Complicit in Fear Mongering?

42:29- Russell's Counsel for Pastors: Small Refusals

44:39 - The Personal Cost of Opposing Government Overreach

48:22 - When Lament and Hope Are the Same Thing

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Mentioned in This Episode:

• Elizabeth Neumann's Kingdom of Rage: The Rise of Christian Extremism and the Path Back to Peace
• National September 11 Memorial & Museum: Marking the 25th Anniversary
• George W. Bush White House's the Department of Homeland Security executive Summary
• More about National Immigration Forum
• Wendell Berry's "A Statement Against the War in Vietnam" from The Long-Legged House

Scriptures:

• Hebrews 11:13–16 ESV
• Jeremiah 29:7 ESV
• 1 Samuel 8 ESV
• Romans 12–13 ESV
• Isaiah 8:11–13 ESV
• Romans 8:24–27 ESV

More From Elizabeth Neumann:

• Elizabeth Neumann's website

More From Russell Moore:

• Russell Moore's Substack
• Read Russell Moore's article The Trump-Era Laughter at Immigrant Suffering Is Deforming Our Souls
• Sign up for Russell Moore's weekly newsletter Moore to the Point

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