What Even Is A [Programming|Natural] Language?

Whether you're talking to another person, talking to a computer, or just talking to yourself, we use languages every day. For a long time now, there's been a debate about whether natural languages and programming languages are distinct from each other. The creation of large language models and their ability to produce code from natural language has blurred these lines even further. In this episode, Kris is joined by Angelica, Matt, and guest co-host Steve Klabnik, to discuss language, what it means to know something, what it means to mean, and so much more. This conversation went so long that we accidentally recorded an entire extra episode! That episode is available as a bonus release in our feed. Supporters get even more conversation and higher quality audio! Get access by signing up at https://fallthrough.fm/subscribe . Thanks for tuning in and happy listening! Notes: Changelog Zulip discussion about overflows Language Machines Are We Smart Enough To Know How Smart Animals Are? Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria? How language shapes the way we think - Lera Boroditsky Table of Contents: Prologue (02:04) Chapter 1: Natural vs Programming (04:48) Chapter 2: What does it mean to know something? (20:15) Chapter 3: Language != Intelligence (37:32) Chapter 4: What if Kafka wrote America for the PowerPC? [Supporter Only] (43:43) Chapter 5: Spoken Language Is Different From Written Language [Supporter Only] (44:30) Chapter 6: Misinterpretation In Programming Language (47:44) Chapter 7: Is It Harder To Learn Natural or Programming Languages? [Supporter Only] (01:01:45) Epilogue (01:02:31) Hosts Kris Brandow - Host Matthew Sanabria - Host Angelica Hill - Producer Steve Klabnik - Host Socials: Website Bluesky Threads X/Twitter LinkedIn Instagram (02:04) - Prologue (04:48) - Chapter 1: Natural vs Programming (20:15) - Chapter 2: What does it mean to know something? (37:32) - Chapter 3: Language != Intelligence (43:43) - Chapter 4: What if Kafka wrote America for the PowerPC? [Supporter Only] (44:30) - Chapter 5: Spoken Language Is Different From Written Language [Supporter Only] (47:44) - Chapter 6: Misinterpretation In Programming Language (01:01:45) - Chapter 7: Is It Harder To Learn Natural or Programming Languages? [Supporter Only] (01:02:31) - Epilogue