Show full transcript 1:07 Listen close and make sure you share this episode with a friend, especially any friends that you have in the DC area 1:15 This is the story of Noria Maya 1:17 Our 1:50 story begins first thing Monday morning, November 2nd 1:55 2009. Carlos Amaya is getting to work to begin a week that is already off to a 2:00 rough start. So Carlos is the chef and co-owner of a popular Italian restaurant 2:05 in Washington DC, which he runs with his sister. And even though he just hosted 2:09 this big private party the night before, he is at the restaurant bright and 2:12 early on just a couple of hours of sleep to fire up the wood-burning 2:16 oven and get started on a massive catering order for something like 2:19 170 people. But when he calls the client to let them know that he's 2:24 going to be there with the order around 10 a.m., the client is like, no, no, no, no. 2:27 Your sister never confirmed the order. 2:30 So we tried to call her and tell her that it was canceled. 2:33 Oh, I'd be so pissed at my sister. 2:36 Carlos was. 2:37 His 38-year-old sister, Noria Maya, is the other half to the business. 2:41 He's the chef. 2:42 She works like front of house on the customer side of things. 2:45 It's like a good arrangement because she's the people person of the two siblings. 2:49 So normally it works out. 2:51 But something has been up with her the last couple of days 2:55 The day before nori didn't show up to help with the private party like she was supposed to Carlos 3:00 Kind of blew that one off because he knows that she had been going through a breakup 3:04 And he was trying to like cut her a little bit of slack 3:07 But now they're like losing business and he is over it 3:11 He wants to call her and like read her the riot act the problem is he can't because her phone is with him 3:19 You see, two nights ago, what would have been Saturday, that was Halloween. 3:24 And Nori had apparently left her phone in a cab that she took home that night, or technically 3:28 it would have been like early Sunday morning. 3:31 The cabbie found the phone and at some point called Nori's mom who sent Carlos to go 3:35 meet the cabbie and pick it up. 3:36 Okay, so why is Carlos still holding on to it though? 3:39 Well, because he thought he was going to be seeing her at work that same day. 3:41 He was just going to like give it to her then, but she didn't show. 3:44 And remember it's like 2009, like we actually at that time all knew how to live without 3:48 our phones for a day back then, especially Nori because apparently she was prone to losing 3:53 her phone maybe more than most. 3:56 So unable to call her, Carlos decides to go by Nori's apartment because he's got the 4:01 time now that he doesn't have to like do this, you know, big 170% catering order. 4:06 So when he gets to her complex, like 10 minutes away, he signs in at the front desk before 4:10 going to her unit on the 11th floor. 4:13 He knocks, he checks the door, but it's locked. 4:16 So he crouches down and even looks through the mail slot and he can see inside 4:21 But the lights are off so the apartment is completely dark and so Carlos is thinking like okay 4:26 You know what Nori is clearly going through it with this breakup 4:29 She's probably still asleep or maybe she just doesn't want to talk to anyone right now 4:34 So he decides to give her a little bit more space if she's not at the restaurant by the dinner shift 4:41 Then he'll take more drastic measures to like shake her out of it 4:45 And guess what? She doesn't show up. 4:47 By closing time on Monday, Carlos' frustration is turning into fear. 4:52 He has made some calls, nobody in their family, including their mom, 4:56 who normally talks to Nori daily, has heard from her. 4:59 So that night, Carlos and his younger sister Liz, they go to Nori's building together. 5:05 And they're not just knocking at this point. 5:06 They told us this time, they asked the security guard to unlock Nori's door. 5:11 And it's the guard who leads the way into her living room. 5:14 everything is still dark except for a bathroom light that's on so Liz flips 5:19 on the light switch they see Nori's Halloween costume laying on the couch 5:24 this like black dress and a feathered Venetian style mask but no Nori and 5:29 nothing seems to be out of place so Carlos calls out to her like to give 5:34 her the chance to come out or get decent before he just like opens her 5:37 bedroom door now the room is dark when he finally goes in but he can tell 5:42 that Nori is in her bed partially covered by a comforter and then the rest happens quickly. 5:49 He turns on the light, he sees Nori's hair and one of her hands peeking out from under the covers 5:54 and when he gets closer he notices marks around her neck. So Carlos pulls the comforter back and 6:01 his sister is blue. She's only in her black underwear so he can see all of the bruises 6:07 all over her body but there's something in him like he cannot stop calling out her name 6:12 like begging her to just like get up even though like looking at her you and I would know that's not 6:17 computing for him he's in shock he's just like desperate to get some kind of reaction out of 6:21 her so he even like hits her trying to prove to himself that what he's seeing isn't real because 6:25 his mind cannot accept that she's gone and that's when Liz walks into the room and she reaches out 6:32 to touch Nori but her skin is so cold that Liz literally jumps back she and Carlos cling to 6:38 each other and just like drop to the floor while the security guard calls 9-1-1. By 9-11 p.m. 6:45 the apartment is full of DC Metro police officers. The detective who is assigned to the case is Tony 6:52 Patterson. Now lucky for us Detective Patterson is retired now so he was able to talk to us for 6:58 this episode. I actually don't know if we could have done it without him because DC 7:02 Metro police department denied our FOIA and while the new MPD detective assigned to the 7:07 case did talk to us like he didn't go into much depth with us still he gave us 7:11 some information verified some details so like grateful but much of what we've 7:16 come to learn about this case will be from Detective Patterson's memory but 7:20 going back to that night inside Nori's apartment by that point Detective 7:24 Patterson's been with MPD for decades a lot of that time was spent in 7:29 homicide so he knows what he's looking for when he gets on to a 7:33 homicide scene and here and we've got locked door no signs of forced entry the apartment isn't ransacked in fact 7:41 Nothing valuable seems to be missing nor is purse is still on the couch. So this wasn't a robbery gone wrong 7:48 This looks like somebody came here for 7:51 Nori with the goal of either sexually assaulting her killing her or both 7:56 It was a one-eighth inch ligature of some kind that ultimately was used to 8:03 strangle and kill her, but the autopsy shows that she fought back. There were 8:07 injuries around her mouth and her chin including a laceration inside her lower 8:12 lip. There is a hemorrhage under the back of her scalp bruising across her 8:18 upper right chest and both breasts and lots of bruises and abrasions on her 8:24 arms, right hand and right leg. Detective Patterson remembers that bruising on her arms. It made 8:30 him think that someone may have like pinned her down on the bed while she fought back. And there's 8:36 also lacerations and bruising to Nori's genital area. And one of the few details we did get 8:42 from the new investigator is that they believe Nori was sexually assaulted. But whoever assaulted 8:49 it in strangled her was calculated and at least had a basic understanding of forensics 8:55 because there was no semen found during the autopsy and no nail clippings that produced 9:00 anything useful because the fingernails that Nori always kept long had been cut all the 9:09 way down and Brett the killer had to have taken the fingernails with them because 9:15 there weren't any in her apartment. I mean I have so many questions but like did 9:21 the killer bring their own clippers? Did they have to use like what was their 9:25 hers? The current detective told us that they don't know what her nails were cut 9:30 with. They also don't know what she was strangled with. Like it could have been 9:34 a cord of some kind. I know they tested a USB cord in her room but that 9:39 didn't have any of her DNA on it. So whatever that was he may have brought 9:44 it or found it but either way he probably took that with him too. And with all this like caution 9:50 this person either watches like a lot of CSI or they've done this before. I mean my own opinion 9:57 I don't think they were some kind of like brilliant mastermind like I think they knew 10:01 about as much as the general public like you're saying from like CSI or something like 10:04 they're gonna know that police get DNA from semen from nail clippings like the end otherwise 10:09 I think this killer would have taken more precautions because the killer didn't get rid of all of the physical evidence 10:17 During the autopsy unidentified male DNA was collected from two areas of Nori's body 10:24 And I know they got touch DNA from either her chest or her breast area like actual touch DNA or could have come from like 10:31 saliva. So the autopsy report doesn't show any of the results from the testing. It just shows me 10:38 what areas they swabbed. They should be able to tell if saliva was present or not. I've seen that 10:43 in other cases. No one from MPD could or would provide us the details. They just said that it 10:50 was touch DNA, but Carlos is pretty dialed into the investigation Nori's brother. And he said 10:56 that he remembers being told that it was like true touch DNA, 11:00 like from skin to skin, like contact kind of thing. 11:03 Now, one would assume that would be like a hand, 11:07 but if it was, that's wild to me 11:10 because the police didn't find any fingerprints 11:12 on her body or apartment that they believe 11:15 were from the killer. 11:17 But you know, who needs prints 11:19 when you have their DNA, right? 11:21 Right. 11:21 Well, it's only good if we can find someone to compare it 11:25 to because even though this sample was good enough to be put into CODIS, there were no 11:31 matches in the system. 11:34 So who could have been in Norrie's apartment and when? 11:39 The autopsy doesn't include a time of death window. 11:43 So that's one of the first mysteries that Detective Patterson has to solve. 11:46 Before you can ever ask somebody for an alibi, you need to know what your critical 11:50 window of time is in the investigation. 11:52 Well, lucky for him, Nori's apartment building has decent security. 11:57 It is one of the biggest apartment complexes in DC. 12:00 It is 12 floors and more than 1,100 units. 12:03 That's basically a small city. 12:04 Yeah. 12:05 So if you live there, you need a key card to swipe into the main entrances. 12:09 The front desk is staffed around the clock and visitors are supposed to sign in. 12:13 There are also at least six cameras in the lobby and more cameras around the building 12:18 and garage. 12:19 So of course Detective Patterson thinks that all of that surveillance is gonna just hand him Nori's killer on a silver platter 12:27 He goes right to the night of Halloween when he's looking at this footage 12:31 That is the last time that anyone says they saw or spoke to Nori 12:35 That's the night that she left her phone in the cab 12:38 So he scrubs through Saturday into the early morning hours of Sunday and he spots her coming into the building 12:45 Alone around 2 30 a.m. They know it's her 12:49 because she's got on a black dress and she's holding the mask that they found on her couch. 12:55 But guess what? It's Halloween and everyone is wearing costumes. Everyone. All weekend, 13:03 people are coming and going in masks and wigs and costumes. So even if someone came through the 13:09 front and was captured, we might not even have their face. And that's if they came through 13:16 the front. Carlos told us at the time there were other ways to get into the 13:20 building, like near the parking areas that weren't covered by cameras at all, 13:25 and Nori's floor didn't have any cameras either. So is the killer on film? I think 13:32 the answer is yes and no. No, they're probably not showing their face in the 13:38 building security footage. But yes, I think their image could have been 13:44 captured on film, actually by Nori herself. 13:49 Because as the police start working backwards, tracing Nori's movements before she got to 13:56 her apartment building, they realized that she had something else with her that night. 14:01 A small red digital camera. 14:05 But they never found a small red digital camera anywhere in her apartment. 14:09 which means the killer may have taken something from Nori after all. 14:18 YouTube is already an essential part of daily life, the go-to place for every mood, moment, and deep dive. 14:25 If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. 14:27 YouTube Premium supercharges the entire viewing experience by removing every single interruption. 14:33 That means completely ad-free watching across the world's largest creator ecosystem. 14:37 Beyond continuous viewing, Premium is perfect for on-the-go busy routines. 14:42 One of my favorite features is background play. 14:44 All of my favorite videos and podcasts stream smoothly, 14:47 even while I'm using other apps or walking with a locked screen. 14:51 And when I'm traveling, offline downloads makes it so easy 14:54 to save full videos and shorts for flights, long drives, or areas with spotty Wi-Fi. 14:58 It gives me total control over my screen time and flexibility anywhere I go. 15:03 YouTube Premium turns the platform that everyone already knows and loves 15:06 into an even more immersive, uninterrupted destination. 15:09 I used YouTube Premium to build a playlist 15:11 to set the vibe at my friend's birthday party the other day. 15:14 I'm talking endless videos, their favorite artists, BTS, 15:17 in concert, all without any ads to take us out of the moment. 15:21 Watch anywhere, anytime, completely uninterrupted. 15:24 YouTube.com slash premium. 15:26 Sign up now for your free trial. 15:27 Terms and conditions apply. 15:30 I believe getting a great night's sleep 15:32 is at the core of having a good day. 15:33 Not just for me, but for my daughter too. 15:36 And whatever night sleep she has tells me the kind of day that we're gonna have. 15:40 And for years she was using the old mattress that has followed my husband since his first 15:44 apartment out of college. 15:46 And we would joke how in her sleep she would flop around like a fish out of water. 15:50 I thought that was like just her. 15:52 But no, we got her a new Helix Elite mattress and now she sleeps like a rock. 15:58 Better nights equal better days for her which equal better nights and days for mom and dad. 16:03 So if you're thinking of upgrading your mattress or your kids, check out Helix first. 16:09 Helix Sleep makes premium mattresses customized to fit specific personal needs, 16:13 conveniently shipped right to your front door, featuring soft, medium, and firm options tailored 16:17 for side, stomach, or back sleepers. 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So Carlos says he takes down her name and 21:52 phone number on the restaurants like reservation clipboard and he gave that 21:56 message to his sister. He doesn't know if Nori called this woman back or what 22:01 happened but clearly like Kat was out of the bag and if the two women were 22:06 comparing notes Nori might have realized that she was getting worked. 22:11 That's the headspace that she seemed to be in by Halloween. She was at a breaking 22:17 point. And so normally Nori loved Halloween. Like every year she would make 22:22 these elaborate costumes and celebrate by going dancing, but that year Karla 22:26 says that she was so upset about Gustavo that she didn't even bother to 22:29 make a costume. He actually made the mask for her that she wore. I guess he 22:34 found this like old Venetian style mask in their upstairs office. He like took 22:37 it apart added some bright feathers and that's what Norrie wore with like a black dress. 22:43 So back to Halloween night. That night it was Norrie's turn to get off early and Carlos's 22:51 to close the restaurant and around 9 30 p.m. they sat at the bar to have dinner and share 22:56 a bottle of their favorite wine together and Carlos says that over dinner Norrie 23:01 started crying about Gustavo. She felt like she was finally done with him like ready 23:07 to break up for good. Carlos told her that she deserved better, and then around 10.30 p.m., 23:14 Nori headed out for the night. Her first stop was Gustavo's Club, the Rumba Cafe. 23:21 Like I said, there's video footage from her time there that Detective Patterson reviews, and 23:26 everything's normal. People were dancing, drinking, moving through the room in costumes 23:30 and masks. And at one point, he sees Nori sitting at a table, taking pictures with the small 23:36 red camera that would later go missing. 23:39 But here is where the drama starts, though none of it is really like caught on film. 23:44 Detective Patterson pieces it together through talking with people who were there that night, 23:48 like Gustavo and Nori's two friends, who I'm going to call Amanda and David for privacy 23:52 reasons. 23:53 Detective Patterson learns that Nori spent at least part of the night around Gustavo. 23:59 At some point, she asked him to sit with her, but Gustavo said no, he was working. 24:03 And Gustavo remembered later that Nori seemed sad behind her mask. 24:08 I mean, I wonder why. 24:09 Right. 24:09 Detective Patterson remembers even texts that Nori sent to a friend around this time of the 24:14 night. 24:14 She said that she was upset because Gustavo wasn't paying any attention to her. 24:17 So eventually she left without saying goodbye to anyone. 24:21 And she left on her own? 24:22 Yeah. 24:23 So her one friend, David, said that he got pretty drunk and so someone took him 24:27 home from the club. 24:27 And her other friend, who I'm calling Amanda, said that she stayed and partied 24:30 into the night with Gustavo and his group near Roomba after Nori left. 24:34 Which at first I thought was kind of weird. 24:35 Like, why are you staying with your friends X that she's like having problems with? 24:39 But Amanda actually worked at Roomba cafe before. 24:42 So she's actually friends. 24:43 Kind of like her group first. 24:44 She was friends with both of them, right? 24:46 But wait, like, did Nori actually break up with Gustavo or no? 24:50 Well, according, no, no. 24:51 So according to Gustavo, she did not. 24:54 Now, Nori doesn't go right home from here when she leaves Roomba cafe. 24:58 day. She never let anything, even a bad night, get in the way of her dancing. 25:04 So Detective Patterson said that she went to a lounge and then to a club downtown to meet 25:09 up with her dance partner. But tonight something was different. She got to the downtown club 25:15 called Bravo Bravo around 1.45 a.m. and her dance partner told Detective Patterson 25:21 that she wanted to leave almost immediately. It looked to him like she was crying under 25:26 her mask. So within 15 minutes of being there, he walked her outside, helped her into a cab 25:31 back to her apartment and watched her leave. That is the cab that took her home. We know she 25:37 gets there by 2.30 and Carlos told us that he remembers police's best guess being that she died 25:44 sometime in the window of 2.30 a.m. to 6 a.m. So there was nothing else on her phone or 25:50 anything about something happening or like meeting up with someone? 25:54 current investigators would not go into detail about her phone they just told 25:59 us that there was nothing in there that had any bearing on her murder now 26:03 Carlos actually used to have her phone like after police extracted all the data 26:07 off of it they gave it back to him but of course like he lost it during a move 26:11 which like broke my heart because I would give anything to be able to go 26:14 through that and like try and piece things together but the only thing 26:18 that Carlos really remembered is that Nori called him around midnight that 26:21 night to like maybe meet up which may have been I think around the time she left Roomba 26:26 cafe but he told her that you know he was just at a friend's party it was like more 26:30 of a chill hang when she called and he's like you know it's not gonna be worth it for 26:33 you to come which like of course he said to imagine yeah he spent like years wondering 26:39 like what would have happened if he told her just to come to that party anyways and 26:44 how long was she at that like lounge place before she went to the downtown club like 26:49 the timing of it all? I don't know exactly. I'm sure it is in the case files, but we, 26:53 like I said, don't have those and Detective Patterson couldn't remember. Okay, I'm just 26:56 trying to like gauge whether something maybe happened there or if she was just like upset 27:03 by the Gustavo stuff like the whole night. Oh, because she leaves crying. As far as we know, 27:08 she was just upset about Gustavo. No one has ever come forward with anything else. I mean, 27:13 if someone out there knows something else, like now is your time to shine. 27:16 But if it really was just the Gustavo stuff I'm thinking that she was probably like drinking all night 27:22 She's in her feels like maybe all of those emotions just caught up with her later and overwhelmed her right and like everyone else 27:29 Is having a good time around her stuff like that. Yeah, you just want to go home. I assume 27:34 That the police checked Gustavo's alibi, right? Yes. He was one of the first people that they brought in for questioning 27:40 I mean they have Nori's siblings saying look at him her friend David was even saying look at him 27:45 And David didn't just know Nori like Amanda. 27:48 He also knew Gustavo too, because apparently one of his family members 27:51 said that he picked up shifts at Gustavo's club. 27:54 So like that probably carried some weight. 27:56 Well, not only does Gustavo deny killing Nori again and again, 28:02 he gives Detective Patterson an alibi for the night of Halloween into the morning after. 28:07 He says he was out with his friends like Amanda and that group the whole time. 28:11 Those friends later back that up. 28:13 And after he called it a night Gustavo says that he went back to his apartment, which is above the club and just went to sleep 28:19 I mean 28:21 We don't know when she died though. So it's it's like is that an alibi? 28:26 It's soft, which is why they still collect his DNA and 28:31 They asked him about the third person in this love triangle his wife 28:37 Why did she call Nori a couple of weeks before her death? Was she threatening her? 28:43 And Gustavo's response is surprising. 28:46 Gustavo said that Nori told him about the phone call, 28:50 so he confronted his wife about it, 28:52 but she denied making the call. 28:54 She denied it again when she talked to the reporter 28:57 for that Washington Post article, 29:00 like herself when she talked to them. 29:01 But Gustavo said that this call scared him even more 29:05 because if his wife didn't call Nori, then who did? 29:10 it. 29:10 And why would someone pretend to be his wife? 29:14 Well, that would open a whole can of mystery worms and speculation that Detective Patterson 29:20 thinks aren't necessary. 29:22 He said, quote, that was Gustavo's wife, end quote. 29:27 So it seems like he thinks she did make that call. 29:30 And he took it seriously enough during the initial investigation to question her, 29:35 get a verifiable alibi from her, and even get her DNA as well. 29:39 But like why get hers? I thought like male DNA was found. Yes, but I don't you can never be too sure 29:44 Yeah, and I mean like when you think about it like one of the things Detective Patterson considered was whether a third person 29:50 Could have been acting on behalf of Gustavo or his wife 29:54 I mean there was someone in particular that Patterson even had in mind back then this employee at Gustavo's club 30:00 Who lives in the same building as his boss located above the club? 30:03 This guy raised eyebrows because not long after Norrie's death, Norrie's friend David 30:09 alerted police that this employee just like up and left the country, went to Argentina. 30:15 The employee said that it was for a family funeral, but the timing was just like a little 30:20 too perfect in detective's minds. 30:23 So they actually concocted a little sting operation to surreptitiously get his DNA. 30:29 Hey, Detective Patterson and his partner, 30:32 they fly down to Argentina with two FBI agents. 30:35 They meet the employee under the guise of being interested 30:38 in buying some property from him. 30:40 So they like then make plans to have dinner with him 30:42 and then during dinner when he's away. 30:44 This is like a whole spy drama. 30:45 I'm telling you, they swipe his glass and his spoon. 30:48 They bring the samples back to the US 30:49 and the investigators test all three samples. 30:52 Gustavo's, his wife's, this employee's 30:54 and then they wait. 30:56 But the DNA results come back one by one, no match to Gustavo, no match to the wife, 31:03 and no match to the employee. 31:05 Did the employee have an alibi? 31:07 Yeah, so as much as anyone can when you don't know the time of death, right? 31:12 And surveillance footage showed him still at the club for hours after Nori left. 31:16 And investigators also find out, by the way, that that funeral in Argentina was legit. 31:20 They didn't just, like, make that up to get out of dodge. 31:22 Okay, but I can't come up with a scenario where any of these people taking, like, her camera 31:29 makes sense, though. I'm obsessed with this camera. 31:32 I don't think the wife would have a reason. Like, the only thing that possibly makes sense would be, like, 31:40 if the wife was, like, seen in the background of a picture, that would prove that she was, like, 31:43 following Nori that night. 31:46 Yeah, but police know that she wasn't out that night based on her alibi, and we know 31:51 that she didn't match the DNA. So not her. I guess the employee wouldn't want to be seen in a picture 31:57 if it was like at one of the last two places she went to. Like him being in pictures from 32:02 like the Roomba cafe doesn't mean anything because he works there. We know he's there. 32:05 Right. If it was Gustavo, I think he has the most to hide if there were pictures of him and 32:12 Nori together on the camera. But that would be like if his wife didn't know about the affair 32:18 and we have Detective Patterson saying that, like, he absolutely believes that she did. 32:23 Right. So, the question becomes, like, who else would have been on that camera from that night? 32:29 I think the other people who were with her that night probably. And investigators, 32:34 check those people out. I mean, they look at her dance partner. He was the last one with her, 32:37 right? He's the one that puts her in the cab to go home. But there's no motive there. I 32:41 mean, he was only with her for a few minutes, and icing on the cake, his DNA wasn't a match 32:46 either. Truth be told, Patterson said they never really even suspected him. They really 32:52 just tested his DNA to make sure that they were leaving no stone unturned. 32:56 But the real person, who drew a lot of suspicion from police, was somebody that Norrie had 33:05 known for years. Somebody she trusted. The very man who offered up Gustavo's name 33:10 as a suspect. The one who then pointed police in the direction of Gustavo's employee. 33:15 The same man who somehow showed up to the crime scene, by the way, the same day that 33:23 Nori was found without being called. 33:26 And that's David. 33:31 YouTube is already an essential part of daily life. 33:35 The go-to place for every mood, moment, and deep dive. 33:38 If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. 33:41 YouTube Premium supercharges the entire viewing experience by removing every single interruption. 33:46 That means completely ad-free watching across the world's largest creator ecosystem. 33:51 Beyond continuous viewing, Premium is perfect for on-the-go busy routines. 33:55 One of my favorite features is background play. 33:58 All of my favorite videos and podcasts stream smoothly even while I'm using other apps or 34:02 walking with a locked screen. 34:04 And when I'm traveling, offline downloads makes it so easy to save full videos and 34:08 shorts for flights, long drives, or areas with spotty Wi-Fi. 34:12 It gives me total control over my screen time and flexibility anywhere I go. 34:15 YouTube Premium turns the platform that everyone already knows and loves into an even more immersive, uninterrupted destination. 34:22 I used YouTube Premium to build a playlist to set the vibe at my friend's birthday party the other day. 34:27 I'm talking endless videos of their favorite artists, BTS, in concert, all without any ads to take us out of the moment. 34:34 Watch anywhere, anytime, completely uninterrupted. 34:37 YouTube.com slash premium. 34:39 Sign up now for your free trial. 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They were part of a group that stayed in touch as they grew up, and David 37:30 would still go out salsa dancing with Norrie and their friends from time to time. And from 37:35 Detective Patterson's perspective, David's basically been a part of this investigation 37:41 from the beginning, though to begin with, he was just a witness. One who was conveniently 37:48 in Nori's building the night that her body was found, 37:52 like as police were processing the scene. 37:56 So let me lay it out for you. 37:57 Nori's sister Liz told us that after the 911 call, 38:01 police took over the apartment 38:03 and asked Carlos and Liz to move into the hallway. 38:06 And when Liz walked out, David was there, 38:09 waiting in the crowd that had gathered 38:11 around the door to see what was going on. 38:13 Now she can't tell us exactly how many minutes 38:16 had passed since police got there or what time she saw David like everything was just happening 38:20 quickly but the way she remembers it they found Norrie and then in her words poof David was suddenly 38:27 right outside the apartment like to her it felt quick like too quick I mean did someone call him 38:32 not Carlos or Liz I mean and there could be listen an innocent explanation for this okay well 38:39 what's his explanation well we've tried multiple ways multiple times to get in touch with him 38:44 We haven't been able to make contact. 38:47 Detective Patterson remembers that his explanation was, like, weird, 38:52 and he remembers asking David about it, but he doesn't remember... 38:55 Like, what it actually was. 38:56 Yes, unfortunately. 38:58 Now, what I will say is that Carlos said David was calling Norrie. 39:02 At the same time, like, Carlos had her phone 39:04 because, you know, David hadn't heard from her, 39:07 so maybe he got worried and went to go look for her, just like Carlos did. 39:11 But another friend of Norrie's had this weird interaction with David 39:14 David too. 39:15 She was at work when she found out that Nori was murdered. 39:18 So friends picked her up and drove her to Nori's mom's house. 39:23 And on the way, she called the house to, like, you know, let them know she was coming, make 39:26 sure it was okay. 39:26 And it was David that answered. 39:28 He was there. 39:29 And off the bat, David started, like, launching into this really detailed explanation of 39:35 where he was the night Nori died and why he wasn't with her, like he got sick, 39:40 he had a cold or something. 39:41 So he went home took some meds and then he fell asleep and then he just overslept and Nori's friend was sitting there thinking like 39:46 Why are you telling me? Like why aren't we talking about? 39:49 Nori yeah, but she just let him go on and on and she told us as soon as she hung up 39:54 She turned to the people in the car and said that was the weirdest 39:59 Conversation but back to Nori's apartment that day like when David showed up to the scene 40:04 He told police that he was with Nori that night 40:08 so obviously he went down to the police station with Carlos and Liz to give a statement. 40:13 But Liz said that he just started like throwing out theories and names. I mean, at that point, 40:18 though, police were like taking every lead he'll throw their way, jotting names down left and right. 40:23 But as Detective Patterson tries to nail down David's relationship with Norrie and his movements 40:28 that Halloween weekend, things to him start feeling kind of shifty. According to Detective 40:34 Mr. Patterson, David told him that he was out that night with Norrie at Gustavo's club, 40:39 and he got so drunk that somebody from the club drove him home because he couldn't drive 40:44 himself. 40:45 Wait, didn't he tell the friend that he had a cold and went home and took medicine? 40:50 Yes, that is what that friend remembers, but it was a highly emotional time. 40:56 Who knows? 40:57 Anyways, his place is like 40 minutes away in Maryland, meaning that when someone 41:03 drove him home, he had to leave his car in DC. So David said that he came back to DC 41:08 at some point the next day to pick it up. And Detective Patterson starts asking him, 41:13 okay, like, where exactly did you leave your car? How did you get back into the city? 41:17 When did you get back into the city? How long were you here? 41:20 And that's like the important part, right? Like, was he in DC, I don't know, stay 41:25 between like 2.30 and 6 a.m.? 41:29 want to pull your hair out so all these years later Detective Patterson can't remember exactly what 41:35 David said and we could not get an answer from current investigators on this or from David himself 41:43 but Detective Patterson told us that he remembers David's answers just weren't adding up and he 41:51 quote, the math ain't mathin'. 41:53 And then Detective Patterson learned just how much Norrie 41:58 trusted David and how much access he had to her apartment. 42:03 Because remember, one thing that he took note of 42:06 when he was first on the scene 42:07 was the fact that there was no forced entry 42:09 and the door to Norrie's apartment 42:11 was locked when Carlos tried to check on her. 42:14 He had to get the security guard to open it. 42:17 Now, there are some alternate possibilities 42:19 around all of this that I'm going to get into later. But based on everything Detective Patterson 42:24 saw at the scene, he always thought that this crime was personal. Somebody Norrie knew. Maybe 42:31 somebody who even had a key to her place. And Norrie's brother Carlos tells him David had one for 42:39 a very interesting reason. So at this time, back in 2009, David was married to a woman, 42:48 but he was also seeing men. Detective Patterson says there was one man in 42:53 particular that they heard about who I'll call Eric for privacy reasons and 42:58 apparently Nori let David use her apartment at this like private place 43:03 for them to meet up. Now when David was asked by Detective Patterson if he had a 43:07 key he completely denied it and they were never able to recover one from 43:12 him so he very well could be telling the truth and really the key thing 43:17 One might not even be that big of a deal. 43:20 Because we were told Nori actually left her door unlocked all the time. 43:25 Like I told you, her building had like all this like security guard, all these like door, 43:29 the keep up, whatever, and it made her feel like she was like, yeah, living in a super 43:33 secure place and like she didn't necessarily always need that extra layer. 43:37 Carlos also told us that she may have started even leaving her door unlocked specifically 43:43 for David. 43:43 I guess I don't get what his motive would be, though, because it sounds like Nori was 43:47 helping him out. 43:49 Well, that could come back to Nori's camera. 43:53 So a source told us that detectives learned that before Nori died, she downloaded a batch 44:02 of recent photos from her digital camera onto a computer at the restaurant because 44:08 her own computer wasn't working and in those files were pictures of David and 44:14 Eric together at a club like dancing and kissing. Oh yeah now I think it's 44:21 important to note that our reporter Malika actually tracked down David's 44:24 wife ex-wife now and she told us that she knew David was having affairs she 44:29 and David were already sleeping in separate rooms and after Nori died they 44:33 got divorced. So I don't think her finding out would have been 44:38 motive for anything. But that doesn't mean that he was ready 44:42 for the world to know. And what was Eric's situation? So from 44:46 what we could tell from like social media, Eric was a couple of 44:49 years out of college working as a waiter back in 2009, not at 44:53 Rumba Cafe as far as we know. And I don't know if he was 44:56 fully out either, but he was like friendly with Nori and her 45:00 friends through David, it seems like he was out with them at least. And we actually reached 45:04 out to Eric during our reporting. And when we asked if he would speak with us about Norrie, 45:08 even just about like knowing her, he said something like, no, I mean, like, rest in 45:13 peace, Norrie, but no. Listen, here's the problem I have with all of that, like motive 45:20 or whatever. Norrie already downloaded those pictures of David and Eric onto a computer. 45:26 So like if that was something you were hiding either one of them taking the camera you don't need the camera 45:32 You need the computer at the restaurant. Yeah 45:34 But maybe whoever did this didn't know that right like her computer isn't working 45:39 They might think that like they might not think about the computer at work 45:41 They could think that everything is still on the camera sure 45:45 But why wait till that night like if those pictures were so damning to someone like to me you get the 45:51 can't you get the camera like the night that those pictures were taken that wasn't Halloween I 45:57 Think that if the camera is relevant the pictures have to correspond to that night 46:03 And was Eric with David that night? It doesn't seem like it 46:06 I mean remember David leaves on his own when he gets drunk as far as we know 46:09 Which like doesn't mean that they couldn't have been a player, but yeah 46:13 Either way they collect both men's DNA and 46:17 Neither of them was a match for the DNA that they have on Nori 46:21 But even with that, there is something that Detective Patterson just can't shake about 46:27 David. 46:28 He doesn't think that he was the one who killed Norrie, but in his personal opinion, he has 46:33 always believed that David may have had some involvement or at least knew more than he 46:40 admitted. 46:41 David only? 46:42 I mean, what about Eric? 46:44 I mean, Detective Patterson didn't say much about Eric. 46:46 Like, I mean, it seems like most of his focus has been David, but he is also clear 46:50 that until they know what happened to Norrie, like, nobody's completely off the table. 46:54 Like I said, it doesn't seem like he's really, like, zeroing in on him at all. 46:59 Though I will say, Eric may not have been the only man that David was seeing. 47:05 I mean, for almost the whole time we were reporting on this story, we didn't hear other 47:09 names just like, oh, you know, David saw men in general, but we just learned something 47:15 from a friend of Nori's that I find very interesting. 47:20 So this friend told us that just a few weeks before Nori's murder, she had stopped by Nori's 47:25 restaurant while David was there, and Nori started telling her about a different man 47:30 that David was seeing who was apparently a diplomat. 47:35 Nori's friend couldn't remember this guy's name or even where he was from. 47:40 But Norie told this friend that she and David went to a hotel where this diplomat was staying and Norie got into an argument with this diplomat. 47:48 She basically called this guy out over the way that he was acting toward David, telling him, like, you're not a man. 47:54 What kind of man acts like this? 47:56 And apparently she wasn't backing down. 47:59 And Norie's friend remembers, like, in that moment being a little scared for Norie. 48:03 Like, you know, if this guy really was a diplomat, like, he's probably powerful. 48:07 Yeah, and Nori was just going off on him now. She didn't hear anything more about this guy 48:13 So maybe this is totally random 48:15 But I can't verify an alibi or confirm if his DNA was tested because this came up so late in our reporting 48:21 We had already done our interview with detective Patterson 48:23 We tried reaching back out to him 48:25 But he has not gotten back to us about our questions surrounding this diplomat 48:29 The only person who would even confirm that police heard about a diplomat was Nori's brother Carlos 48:37 And he was interesting to work with. 48:39 Like, I mean, he's great. 48:40 He wants Nori's case solved more than anyone. 48:43 And yes, they checked his DNA and alibi, 48:45 like everything he has never been a suspect. 48:47 But, you know, he's really cognizant 48:49 of not hurting the investigation. 48:52 So like, if we learned something 48:54 from somewhere else, someone else, he would confirm it. 48:57 Like- 48:57 But he wasn't necessarily like 48:58 serving up any information on his own. 49:01 Yes. 49:01 And so that's like how it was with this diplomat. 49:03 So once we asked him about this, 49:05 he told us that he remembers the diplomat being from Mexico, and he remembers investigators 49:11 tracking this guy down and talking to him, but he doesn't think anything came of it, 49:17 though I don't know what that means or how far they got with the guy, and I don't know if that guy, 49:23 whoever he is, was even in DC on Halloween night 2009, but I would love to ask. 49:29 Well, and I was wondering, like, did David and this diplomat ever use Nori's apartment? 49:36 Me too. 49:37 I assume police have asked David. 49:40 I mean, Detective Patterson was thorough, but we can't be sure until he gets back to 49:44 us. 49:44 I mean, if Patterson's theory is that David knows more, someone like a diplomat would 49:49 make sense. 49:50 Someone he might be afraid of. 49:53 Or maybe there's somebody else that he was involved with that is yet to be identified. 49:58 Or maybe David really isn't involved at all. 50:02 Even though we didn't make contact with him, 50:04 we did speak to members of David's family 50:06 who remember him being devastated by Nori's death. 50:09 I mean, one family member remembers him crying 50:11 and saying like she was my friend. 50:13 Another remembers how shocked he seemed, 50:15 saying, I just saw her. 50:17 I cannot believe this happened. 50:19 And they don't believe that David was involved in Nori's murder 50:22 and he has never been charged with anything in relation to it. 50:27 Now, key or no key, we did learn that Nori was known to leave her apartment door unlocked. 50:33 Like, I told you, the building had a security guy at the front. 50:35 It had multiple cameras. 50:36 You had to, like, use a pasting order to get in. 50:39 Like, she felt safe. 50:39 Yeah. 50:40 She, like, it was... 50:40 There were so many layers of security. 50:41 Sometimes she didn't feel like she needed that extra one. 50:44 Anyone could have come in. 50:46 Yes, but I'm stuck on how they would have locked up behind them when they left 50:51 because you would need a key for that. 50:52 I was going to come back to this. 50:53 So I didn't want to get sidetracked. 50:56 Here's the thing. 50:56 So no one could or would tell us definitively if Nori's keys were all accounted for. 51:02 Police say the only thing missing was that camera of hers. 51:05 So I assume that no keys were missing, but we don't know for sure. 51:09 Especially if she had spares, right? 51:11 That she was like giving her friends. 51:12 But she had made like whatever. 51:13 There's no count up, right? 51:14 But more importantly, we know for certain that someone else was in Nori's 51:20 apartment after she died and they may have locked her apartment door. 51:26 When police processed her apartment, they found a card for an exterminator and they 51:30 found out that the building had scheduled like a maintenance thing for the units on Monday, 51:34 the same Monday that Nori was found. 51:36 So an exterminator had a key to let himself in. 51:40 He sprayed, he left, and when he left, it's very likely he might have been the 51:46 one who actually locked the door like behind him. 51:49 Wait, so he was in her apartment with her dead body? 51:54 Which I know sounds bananas, I like spiraled on this. 51:56 Detective Patterson interviewed this guy. 51:58 He said the guy never actually went into the bedroom. 52:00 He had no idea that she was in there. 52:04 And this exterminator unfortunately doesn't remember 52:06 if the door already was locked or unlocked 52:08 when he went into... 52:09 Right, it's like one of those things 52:10 that you don't think about remembering when it's happening. 52:13 So like I don't know, is the fact 52:14 that there's no fourth century doesn't mean anything at all. 52:17 I have no idea. 52:18 And they check this guy's DNA, right, like the exterminator? 52:21 Yep, he's not a match. 52:22 So if someone didn't need to be let in or have a key, that could open up the suspect pool really, really wide. 52:31 Maybe it isn't somebody who knew her. Maybe that's why this case has been so hard to solve. 52:39 Detective Patterson points to things like the fact that Nori was covered with the comforter after she was killed. 52:45 Like he says that's behavior you often see when somebody cares for the victim, right? 52:50 But it can also be something that a killer does if they're like ashamed of what they did like if the murder wasn't the plan 52:56 Right. Yeah, like, you know, maybe they had gone in with the goal of some kind of like sexual assault and things like got out 53:03 Like out of hand. Right. Yeah, right. Now interestingly 53:06 Carlos ran into a friend sometime a few months ago somebody who's known both his family and David for years and 53:14 And that friend told Carlos that they ran into David recently and David started talking 53:19 about Nori. 53:20 He allegedly described her death as a sexual situation that went wrong that night. 53:26 Now, from what I can tell, we are actually the first to report confirmation of sexual 53:34 assault. 53:35 That was never confirmed by police before. 53:37 So back when this was said, it wasn't public knowledge. 53:42 Carlos obviously told Detective Patterson it piqued his interest because he's like, you know, in all the times that I've talked to David, David has never described Norrie's death as a sexual situation gone wrong. 53:52 Any of the many, many theories that he suggested to police. Now, by this point, Patterson is retired, so he passed the information onto the current investigator. 54:02 But it might mean nothing. I mean, we are hearing this second hand, the friend who supposedly heard this from David wouldn't talk to us.
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