Show full transcript 0:25 the postcard perfect scenery. 0:27 If you're ready to discover what's beyond the trailhead, 0:29 listen to Park Predators wherever you get your podcasts. 0:33 Hi, I'm Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. 0:36 And I'm Britt. 0:36 And the story I have for you today is a case that's unfolding right now in North Philadelphia. 0:42 At the center of it is a house that people have compared to something out of a horror movie, 0:48 connected to, at this moment, at least seven missing women. 0:53 As of this recording, nobody has figured out where these women are 0:57 or exactly how the two men who lived in that house 1:01 could be connected to their disappearances, if at all. 1:05 But there is still a lot to wrap your head around, 1:08 and I think this might be one of the biggest cases of the year. 1:12 So since all of you have been in our DMs 1:14 asking us to connect the dots and see what we could find out 1:17 about Eugene and Raymond Horsch, 1:20 this is the still developing story of the Horsch House of Horrors. 1:25 Okay, 1:58 Britt, before we jump in, just a little bit of a caveat. 2:01 So like every episode, our investigative reporters and producers were pounding the pavement, like 2:06 pulling records, reaching out to sources. 2:09 But this one is a bit of a different game for us, because we're not telling a story that 2:14 is complete or happened decades ago. 2:16 We are literally getting new information every single day, but I'm going to tell 2:22 you what we know so far. 2:24 So, this whole thing started unfolding just a few months ago, on Friday, June 19, 2026. 2:33 That's when a park ranger is near Independence Mall in Philadelphia, just like steps from 2:37 the Liberty Bell, when he spots this black BMW park somewhere it shouldn't be. 2:42 So he walks over to check it out, and that's when he hears a woman's voice from inside 2:47 the car, saying, you're going to hurt me. 2:49 Now, he gets even closer so he can look through the car's window, and in the 2:53 driver seat he sees this middle-aged man and then the woman and just one look at 2:58 them tells this ranger that this is probably gonna turn into more than just 3:02 like a simple request for them to move their car because both of them have 3:06 visible sores like the kind he knows sometimes comes from drug use they 3:11 also have some drug paraphernalia that he can spot through the window so he 3:16 asked them both for IDs and this is where things go from the routine to 3:21 the bazaar. Because what they end up learning is that both of these people have fake IDs on them. 3:28 The man's is a fake DEA badge, which is like no good. This is definitely not just like a 3:34 hey move your car situation with a fake federal badge. Right. But the woman's 3:40 is somehow even more concerning because even though her ID looks legit at first glance, 3:45 like with her picture on it and everything, when the park ranger runs it, 3:48 It turns out that the information on the ID belongs to a woman named Blair Tonzelli. 3:56 And Blair Tonzelli has an open missing persons case on her. 4:02 The real Blair was last heard from more than three years before this in August of 2022 4:07 and then she had been officially reported missing in February of 2023. 4:12 So they end up identifying the man she's with as 44-year-old Eugene Horsch. 4:18 So this is now officially above the Park Rangers' pay grade. 4:23 So police get called in, and they bring in the real DEA agents. 4:28 And once Eugene is taken into custody, he admits to officers that he is a convicted 4:33 felon, which makes the other stuff that they find on him and in his car real bad 4:39 news for Eugene. 4:40 He's got a switch blade and a glass pipe on him. 4:44 And in the car is crack cocaine. 4:46 Another switch blade, a cattle prod, 4:48 a collapsible baton, and a set of handcuffs. 4:51 Oh, and by the way, two loaded guns, 4:54 at least one with the serial number filed off. 4:57 I mean, I was gonna say huge red flag, 4:59 but that's like a barrage of red flags one after another. 5:02 Now, authorities learned that Eugene owns a house 5:05 at 417 West Chew Avenue in a neighborhood called Alney. 5:09 So, within hours, law enforcement's headed there with a search warrant in hand to see 5:14 what else Eugene might have going on. 5:18 And listen, moral of the story, sometimes you can judge a book by its cover because even 5:23 from the outside, this house, a crumbling three-story brick twin, is bad vibes. 5:30 I mean, the second and third floor windows are boarded up, there are bars on the 5:34 first floor windows, and there's a security camera pointed right at the street. 5:37 But truly, as bad as it was from the outside, I don't think anyone could have imagined that 5:43 what they were walking into would be so disturbing that this house would become infamously known 5:49 as a house of horrors. 5:51 Because this was not a quick in and out search. 5:54 Police ended up securing the whole neighborhood. 5:57 Investigators in hazmat suits were going in and out of the house over the course 6:01 of days, which gets the attention of local news and social media. 6:07 Eventually, Deputy Police Commissioner Frank Venor gets in front of cameras for a press 6:12 conference. 6:13 Venor says that they found some stuff that I think would be pretty normal for a search 6:17 involving the DEA, like a gun, over a hundred pieces of ballistic evidence, a marijuana 6:22 grow operation. 6:24 But then there were other things that they couldn't quite explain. 6:28 hidden compartments, a makeshift laboratory set up of some sorts in the basement and so 6:35 many chemicals that investigators say some could be dangerous if the wrong ones got 6:39 mixed together. And a 55 gallon drum hooked up to the water lines that like ran down 6:47 into a hole in the ground. What's that even mean? So what was going through those 6:52 lines or where it was going, nobody has officially said, but Nor called it a quote, strange setup. 7:00 But I think Eugene could have maybe been making something, maybe irrigating something. 7:06 I mean, remember, we've got a grow operation. So it could have just been part of a system 7:10 for watering plants. I mean, this early on, they can't say what any of this means. They 7:14 just started processing this house and they still have a lot of work ahead of them. 7:19 I mean, there are a thousand questions from reporters and from the community after this, 7:24 but few answers are given, at least not that day. 7:28 But the slow drip of information doesn't always come from behind a podium. 7:33 Local reporters working sources begin to shine a light on the true scope of what was found 7:38 in that house. 7:40 Now Max Merrin over at the Philadelphia Inquirer spoke to us for this episode. 7:44 He has been working with this core team of four, including him who have been dedicated to this case. 7:50 So it's him, Ryan W. Briggs, Ellie Rushing, and Barbara Laker, among others. 7:56 Now, Max told us that when this first broke, they honestly thought that this was going to be 8:00 some big drug case. But once the details started coming in, a missing woman's ID, 8:06 a 55-gallon drum in the basement, he said it was hard to not let your mind go to dark 8:12 places, and the more that kept coming out, the darker it got. 8:18 Sometime after that first press conference, police sources tell reporters that they found 8:24 something else. 8:25 What looks like a significant amount of blood. 8:29 No other detail. 8:31 There are also five urns containing cremated remains. 8:36 Now one of them has a name on it, a relative of Eugene's. 8:39 but the other four are mystery. 8:42 Vanore said that it could be other relatives, 8:45 but truly they didn't know. 8:47 But this other thing that comes out 8:48 is a bit harder to just like explain away. 8:51 They find a handwritten letter, 8:54 like real disturbing stuff. 8:56 It describes hurting people. 8:58 It references zip ties, a drum, 9:01 and serial killer, Ted Bundy. 9:04 And this is when people start going wild 9:07 and the story begins to spread beyond the Philadelphia area. 9:10 Which is why deputy police commissioner, 9:13 Vanore moved fast to shut down some rumors spreading online. 9:17 Because already people were saying 9:18 that there were bodies in the house. 9:20 But he assured reporters, 9:22 nothing like that had been found anywhere on the property 9:25 that they know of yet. 9:28 But the truth is what they had found 9:30 had them make the decision to have homicide detectives 9:33 leading this up. 9:34 So you can imagine that nothing really quieted down. 9:39 The public was clamoring for more information about the man at the center of this, and about 9:44 the missing woman who's stolen information seemed to really kick this investigation 9:48 off, Blair Tonzelli. 9:51 Now among all the things at the house, investigators also found several fake IDs in her name 9:56 plus bank cards for her. 9:59 And when they'd spoken to the woman from the car who had been carrying the ID with 10:03 Blair's name on it, she tells them that she doesn't even know Blair. 10:07 She says that Eugene is the one who made the fake ID for her using her own picture and 10:13 Blair's name. 10:14 He told her that she could use it if she ever got pulled over because she had her 10:17 own warrants out on her. 10:19 But she said there was something odd about the way that Eugene talked about Blair, 10:23 something that made her think that something bad might have happened to her. 10:27 Oh, and by the way, she also said that although Eugene never actually hurt her, he did once 10:36 tell her that he knew the chemicals needed to dissolve human bodies. 10:41 Oh. 10:42 By that point, investigators have to be having the same fear that this woman did, that something 10:48 bad happened to Blair Tonzelli, maybe even in that house. 10:53 And when they look into her missing person case, they see a potential tide that had been there all along. 11:02 So by the time Blair disappeared in 2022, she was estranged from a lot of her family. 11:08 She had struggled with opioid addiction for years and she had cycled in and out of jail on drug charges and charges related to sex work. 11:15 So it was not unusual for her to go MIA, which is why nobody really worried at first when she kind of just dropped off. 11:22 But when months went by without so much as a sighting of her, a friend decided to report 11:27 her missing. 11:28 And according to reporting by the Philadelphia Inquirer, when they do, they tell police that 11:33 Blair was last known to be at the house of some sketchy guy who apparently scared her. 11:40 And where did the sketchy guy live? 11:42 The friend gave police the exact address of the horse house in the Alney neighborhood. 11:49 Now, who was that sketchy man? 11:53 The friend who made the report didn't give a name. 11:58 So let's start with the name on the house, Eugene Horsch. 12:03 Now nobody has said that he is the man Blair's friend was talking about, but since it's 12:08 his house and all this started in his car, investigators start digging into him. 12:14 So here's what we know about Eugene. 12:15 He grew up in Bucks County, and by all accounts, at least as a kid, he seemed pretty normal. 12:22 His childhood friend, Jeremy Perry, spoke with one of our reporters and said that Eugene 12:26 was actually one of the smartest kids that he knew. 12:30 Jeremy lived down the street from Eugene back in the day, like not in the only neighborhood, 12:34 but in an area called Chalfont, where Eugene mostly grew up. 12:38 The two hung out constantly growing up, and Jeremy said that things were all good 12:42 right up until high school. 12:44 That's when Eugene started gravitating toward harder drugs, started hanging out with a different 12:49 crowd, and the two of them just kind of drifted apart. 12:53 But sometime before they did, there is this thing that happened that has always stuck 12:58 with Jeremy. 12:59 At some point, and it's a little unclear exactly when, Eugene's childhood home in 13:04 Chalfont caught fire. 13:06 It got completely tore down, rebuilt from the ground up, which like, okay, happens. 13:10 But it's what was added during the rebuild that was always strange to Jeremy. 13:16 He remembers this like steel door built right into the basement walls. 13:22 So of course, he like had to ask his buddy about it. 13:24 And he was told that it was just going to be a safe room, like a panic room, 13:29 which was odd to him, but as a kid, he didn't really want to push. 13:33 Now, after Jeremy and Eugene drifted apart, 13:35 it seems like Eugene kept drifting farther and farther from center. 13:40 According to 6 ABC's reporting, in 2004 Eugene pleaded guilty to aggravated assault after a DUI crash. 13:47 In 2013, a separate traffic stop led police to that house in Alney. He's living there by that point. 13:54 And inside they discovered a marijuana grow operation worth almost $2 million. 13:59 Then in 2025, when first responders were responding to a fire at the Alney house. 14:04 Wait, another one? 14:05 Yeah, different house now, but like another house fire, but I don't know what it means 14:10 And it was while firefighters are tending to that they expose yet another grow operation plus three guns with the serial numbers removed 14:18 so 14:20 Overall he has spent about five or so years behind bars spread across his entire adult life and by 14:27 2026 he was on probation 14:30 So Eugene is far from squeaky clean 14:32 But when his attorney, Jerome Brown, started speaking up, he said this whole thing is getting 14:39 overblown, quote, much to do about nothing, says that he would be shocked if police found 14:45 any real harm tied to the house. 14:47 But he kind of insinuates, you know, if they did, that still doesn't mean anything for 14:52 his client, because he says he thinks that a lot of the chemistry stuff belonged to 14:58 somebody else entirely. Because as you know, Brit, there was another person who also lived 15:05 in that house for a long time. Somebody with what Attorney Brown calls a very interesting 15:13 past. 15:19 This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting 15:23 support, and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. 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Listen, this is not just something that he wrote for a book jacket 18:40 either. We tracked down this reporter at Philly's NPR station, W.H.Y.Y. News. His name's Peter 18:46 Crimmins, and he interviewed Raymond back in 2014 for a story about vintage erotic film 18:53 screenings around Philly, including one that Raymond made in 1973. 18:57 And then he talked to him again for a book idea about Philly's criminal underworld in 19:01 the 60s and 70s. 19:02 And Peter played a clip of Raymond from that interview on W-H-Y News Podcast, and 19:08 You have to hear him in his own words. 19:10 I think it's chilling. 19:13 I mean, basically, I'm, a sociopath always have been and it was a nice way to express 19:22 myself. 19:23 What makes you describe yourself as a sociopath? 19:25 I don't like disagree with society. 19:29 I think civilization is the biggest evolutionary mistake ever made. 19:36 Even this is not a performance that he puts on. 19:40 So when Peter later met up with him for lunch, he said the two of them were having this totally 19:46 normal meal together, like Raymond's munching on dips, except Peter said completely deranged 19:53 things were just coming out of Raymond's mouth the entire time. 19:58 Surprisingly though, Peter told us that he didn't find Raymond creepy or threatening 20:03 at all. 20:04 He said he never felt like he was in danger. 20:06 This guy was just calmly telling him 20:08 about running a meth empire he compared to Breaking Bad, 20:11 fleeing to New Zealand under some scientist name, 20:15 crashing a Reno air show uninvited 20:17 in a jet that he said he bought 20:18 from the author of Jonathan Livingston's Seagull, 20:22 all, well, by the way, 20:23 he's like just sitting there eating hummus. 20:24 Okay, but did any of that like check out though? 20:28 So Peter actually asked a Philadelphia inquirer reporter 20:31 That same question once this case broke and the answer was mostly yes 20:37 New Zealand a counterfeiting operation the meth lab. He even owned a real jet. It all seems to be confirmed 20:44 Now some of the smaller more colorful details. Nobody really knows 20:49 But the core of it checks out from everything that our team learned about this guy 20:54 He genuinely seemed like somebody who like his son 20:58 started out as a really bright kid. 21:01 But by his 30s, he was deep into crime. 21:04 Bad checks, counterfeiting, that meth lab, 21:07 he was running out of his own home in the 70s. 21:10 And when it looked like he was about to get caught, 21:13 he fled the country entirely, New Zealand, 21:15 living under fake names for years. 21:18 Now, this is right around the same period 21:21 when his son Eugene was born, 21:23 while Raymond was like still on the run. 21:25 So, Raymond eventually ended up back in the U.S. and got caught. 21:30 And according to the Philadelphia Inquirer, in 1985, as part of his sentencing, his defense 21:35 team had him go through a psych evaluation. 21:39 And I found their conclusions very interesting. 21:41 The psychologist's report painted a picture of a man obsessed with control, constantly 21:46 working an angle on people around him. 21:49 It said that he was, quote, consumed by anger. 21:51 And the evaluation points toward bipolar disorder and a paranoid personality disorder. 21:58 Now he got sentenced to three years in prison and even though he would end up getting out 22:03 early, for those first few years Eugene's mother had to raise him mostly on her own. 22:08 But you can piece together that mom wasn't much more of a stable presence than dad was 22:13 because the Philadelphia Inquirer says that she died of an overdose in 1989 with 22:19 seven-year-old Eugene in the room after that it was just Raymond raising Eugene 22:25 alone in Bucks County in his childhood home in Chalfon the one I told you about 22:30 and you can like trace this shifting in his path like who he could have become 22:36 to who he became. I mean that was one of my biggest questions with this case too 22:40 like the father-son thing. The nature versus nurture. Yeah and like what was 22:45 Eugene exposed to growing up that made him go from this, like, smart, pretty normal kid 22:50 that Jeremy remembers to getting, like, so far off path. 22:53 Well, speaking of Jeremy, this is actually where Eugene's former friend, his story comes 22:57 back in. 22:58 So he told us about this time, when they were around junior-highish age, and they'd 23:04 been playing video games on the computer. 23:06 And Jeremy remembers something else, like, popping up on the screen. 23:10 It was explicit content. 23:12 But Jeremy described it as, like, way out of what he assumes most people would think of when they think of porn. 23:19 It was actually gore and blood, like, torture situation. 23:23 And what does Eugene do during this? 23:25 Nothing. That was the part that stuck with Jeremy all these years. 23:29 He said that Eugene barely reacted. 23:31 He just went like, oh, yeah, that's just like my dad's stuff. 23:33 And then they go right back to gaming. 23:36 So that is the environment that Eugene is actually growing up in. 23:41 because at the same time that Raymond is raising a kid, he was building an entire career as a 23:48 quote-unquote filmmaker and photographer. And for decades, his whole body of work centered on 23:55 women, addiction, and violence. According to what we learned from the Philadelphia 24:01 Enquirer, his whole MO was built around one neighborhood in Philly, Kensington, 24:07 which is one of the biggest open-air drug markets in the country. 24:11 Raymond's play was to approach women who were struggling, who were vulnerable, 24:15 and he would offer them somewhere to stay, something to numb the pain. 24:18 And in exchange, he wanted them to get in front of his camera to act out 24:22 basically like staged death scenes, hangings, strangulations, drownings. 24:28 Now, we spoke with several longtime neighbors from his house back in Chalfont, 24:33 And they all described the same pattern where like women would just be coming and going so were these 24:39 Legit movies is like such a strong word. What were they like being distributed or were they like just for him? 24:45 It's kind it kind of seems like both so way back in the 70s 24:49 He made at least one real movie that got a real release 24:53 They ran ads for it in the paper 24:55 But over the years most of his stuff was self-made and he had like photo books that he published himself a 25:02 of documentaries, stuff that he posted on his own website. 25:05 And in 2014, he even got a gallery show in Kensington, 25:10 but it all seemed like super low budget 25:12 and it doesn't seem like it was making him much money. 25:16 Neighbors told the inquire that his only income 25:19 appeared to be selling drugs. 25:21 And we'll come back to this a little bit later, 25:23 like when we get to like the whole of this, 25:25 because I think that the question you're asking 25:27 is an important one. 25:28 Now in 2009, Raymond got in trouble with the law again for a grow operation in the 25:36 Chalfont house. So he got a little over 50 months that time when he was sentenced. 25:40 He got out in 2013 and he had lost the Chalfont home so he went to go live with 25:46 his son Eugene at the house in Alney and he keeps making his stuff there. The 25:52 Philadelphia Inquirer describes the house as basically becoming a porn studio 25:57 And years later, he was still posting photos of women 26:00 acting out their own deaths on his website. 26:04 So, to bring it back to Blair Tonzelli, 26:08 there are a couple of things you need to know. 26:11 We know that she spent years struggling 26:13 with opioid addiction on the streets of Kensington. 26:16 Where Raymond found women. 26:17 Right. 26:18 And we know that she was last known to be 26:21 at the Horsch House. 26:23 And even though the friend who reported her missing 26:26 didn't name the sketchy guy that Blair was scared of that lived there. According to reporting, 26:31 by the inquirer, another friend did know the name of the man she was visiting. 26:36 And it wasn't Eugene. He said it was Raymond. And guess what? Blair wasn't the only missing 26:44 woman whose last known location was at that house. 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She never missed big things like her grandkids milestones, for 30:29 example. And Amy's mom put up signs all over Kensington looking for her. And there's actually 30:34 this one detail that stuck with Amy's mom for years. So I guess normally whenever Amy would 30:39 disappear for a little stretch or whatever, Raymond would call her like checking in. But 30:44 But after this time, there was nothing. 30:47 He just stopped reaching out completely. 30:51 So Amy's case sits like that for a decade, unsolved, no real leads. 30:57 But there's this woman we connected with named Barbara Rotella. 31:01 She is or has dedicated a huge amount of time to creating this entire database of under-reported 31:07 and under-represented missing people. 31:09 Like in Philly. 31:10 No girl. 31:11 Like much bigger. 31:12 But she does seem to focus on like the mid-Atlantic with some cases even further out though 31:17 Like Barbara literally decided that what's already out there wasn't good enough. So she's like but K 31:22 I'm just gonna make my own thing. So we love her. We do. We absolutely love her 31:27 She is one of us all of our crime junkies should check out her work her websites super easy to remember 31:32 It is underground mysteries comm 31:36 So obviously she had been looking into all of this and she told one of our 31:41 reporters about how she found a photo of Amy on Raymond's website back in 2024. 31:48 Now the site has since been taken down so this was like two years before any of 31:52 this broke publicly. She told us that the date in the photo file put it right 31:57 around the time that Amy disappeared and the detail that stuck with her is 32:02 like Amy is sitting in a car, and it looks like she had been crying. 32:06 And Barbara had sent that photo directly to Amy's daughter, who confirmed that she 32:10 had never seen that picture before in her life. 32:13 So Barbara told our reporter that she shared what she had with police back in 2024. 32:18 A detective did follow up. 32:20 They interviewed Raymond, and he just told detectives, you know, the same story. 32:25 And he said that all of his works were works of fiction. 32:28 That was his excuse, and Raymond denied any involvement in her disappearance. 32:33 So all of this story involves Raymond, but, like, Eugene is in this house too, right? 32:39 Like, did they question Eugene about any of this? 32:41 I don't know for sure. 32:43 I haven't seen the files, but I don't think so about Amy, because what I can tell you 32:48 with near certainty is that Eugene was incarcerated at the time that Amy disappeared. 32:52 So I don't know that he would have any relevant information. 32:55 Now as far as we know he wasn't in custody when Blair disappeared and to be 33:00 clear Eugene has not been charged in connection with any crimes related to 33:05 the missing women and a lot of what we know about Blair points back to Raymond 33:09 though remember it was Eugene who allegedly made that fake ID using her 33:13 name and the Philadelphia Inquirer even ends up reporting that there was at 33:18 least one photo of Blair reportedly up on Raymond's site too. In it they 33:23 they say she was nude with a black eye and a bloody lip. 33:27 I mean, you have to assume that both women, at least, 33:30 maybe crossed paths with Eugene, though. 33:32 Like, if they were in the house? 33:35 Those are the problem. 33:36 I don't think anything can be fully answered yet 33:39 because things get even more complicated. 33:42 The more investigators continue to uncover things 33:46 from the house in only. 33:48 Because to come back to the early days 33:50 of this investigation in 2026, 33:52 what police hadn't even revealed publicly right away was that part of what they had 33:58 seized from the horse house in Alney included digital evidence. And we're not 34:03 talking just like a couple of pictures. Right. We are talking around 50 hard drives 34:08 with over 600,000 images, more than 70,000 videos, and over 10,000 pages of 34:18 Right, like not just a computer, this is like a database, a person's entire life. 34:24 Now look, by this point, investigators already know that this case is dark. 34:29 They've read the letter, they know about Raymond's whole career staging violence for 34:34 the camera, they have heard from witnesses, so you would think that they would walk 34:39 into this digital evidence somewhat prepared for what's coming, but actually sitting 34:44 down and going through hundreds of thousands of files trying to figure out which ones are 34:49 staged and which ones might be legit is something else entirely. 34:55 I truly cannot imagine having that job. 34:57 Just like how much it would mess with your hair. 34:59 Where on you? 35:00 Do you remember? 35:01 We did an entire show on this actually. 35:02 Dark greeners. 35:03 Yes. 35:04 But someone has to go through this stuff because within these hard drives full of 35:09 files that he called fiction are glimpses of the truth that tells us at least some of this 35:18 might be real. This realization does not reach the public until August 12th, 2026. That is when 35:27 police call another press conference. An inspector named Raymond Evers stands in front of the cameras 35:33 and says something that nobody's heard yet 35:35 in this investigation. 35:37 He says, two women are now believed 35:40 to have been killed inside that house, 35:42 but it is not the two names 35:44 that we already know, Blair and Amy. 35:47 It is Maribel Freses, reported missing in 2018, 35:51 and Gabrielle Amarondo, missing since 2012. 35:55 The reason they were announcing this now 35:57 is because as investigators 35:58 were combing through a mountain of files, 36:01 They found images of these two young women and at one point both women appear 36:06 alive and then in other images contained within those same files they both look 36:12 dead. And has it ever come out how they were able to ID them? So police never said 36:17 but this was actually a question that we had while we were reporting on this 36:20 case. So we reached out to a guy named Adam Scott Want. He is an associate 36:25 professor of public policy who specializes in digital forensics and he 36:30 We didn't work on this case. 36:31 We just wanted to understand in general how something like this typically works. 36:35 And he said that the likely tool that was used was some kind of facial recognition software 36:40 which pulls from everywhere, driver's license photos, social media, all of it. 36:44 And he said that matching somebody in that way isn't difficult at all these days. 36:48 So that is his best educated guess. 36:51 But back to the press conference. 36:53 So along with naming these women, who by the way police are clear, they do not 36:58 have bodies for. 36:58 they say that the material that they're having to review is quote graphic and 37:04 dark, though they won't say what it shows or how the women may have died, but 37:10 even the medical examiner's office has weighed in and they say that the women 37:14 are dead if the images and the videos are real and not altered in any way. 37:20 And in this AI age that's like a big if. I mean even in like 2012, 2014, 2016, like 37:26 10, 15 years ago, we had incredible Photoshop tools. 37:30 And you know, Raymond considered himself an artist, 37:33 so it's totally possible. 37:34 Right, outside of the pictures are there other ties 37:38 to either of the guys, either horse? 37:40 Not like Amy and Blair, no. 37:43 So they just have the images, 37:44 which police believe were taken inside that house. 37:47 And that is what ties them. 37:48 That's the connection. 37:48 Yeah. 37:49 Now, even though the pictures came from the search 37:51 of the house in Alney, 37:53 and we know Eugene and Raymond lived there, 37:56 And we know that Raymond was known to be the one who captured the stuff like this police have stopped short of blaming 38:03 either of the horses 38:05 Inspector Evers actually gets asked this question pretty directly like were they involved in these women's deaths? 38:13 And here's exactly how he answered it quote 38:16 Eugene lived there. He lived there for a long time. His dad lived there for a long time and 38:22 quote 38:24 Okay, exactly what I told you. Did the pictures have dates on them or like any of the metadata 38:31 that could help them find the bodies? So here is where things get real interesting. Yes, 38:38 investigators would later go on to say that they pulled the metadata and that shows that 38:42 both images were taken in 2017. But we, I know. So Gabrielle went missing in 2012. I mean, 38:51 And more concerning, I think, is that Maribel went missing after 2017, like in 2018. 38:55 Is the date fake? 38:57 Maribel was reported missing February 2018. 39:01 So I wonder if maybe it's possible that she had been MIA for longer. 39:05 Remember how kind of like Blair was? 39:07 Or maybe somehow that 2017 day is just off. 39:12 Because you're right, there is a huge gap between 2012 and 2017 for Gabrielle. 39:16 Now, Maribel and Gabrielle were the first two women that police openly said they believed 39:23 were dead. 39:24 But there was also a caveat that left all of us feeling like there was going to be more 39:30 press conferences to come because at that point what they said is they had only gone 39:34 through about 5% of what is actually on those hard drives. 39:39 And, as expected, the more they viewed, the more potential victims they've identified. 39:51 Crime junkies, I am so excited because one of my favorite thriller horror classics is 39:58 getting its first ever TV series adaptation. 40:01 And I am, of course, talking about Stephen King's Carrie. 40:05 And this TV adaptation is everything I think this story is truly about. 40:10 not gruesome horror, but a story about what happens 40:13 when we make small choices between kindness or cruelty 40:17 and those snowball into something catastrophic. 40:21 Those are the kind of real-life stories 40:23 that we talk about every week on this show. 40:25 And the real dread comes from watching 40:28 avoidable situations spiral. 40:31 And it can happen so fast in the digital age. 40:34 This edge of your seat cultural event delivers iconic moments 40:37 with unmatched emotional depth. 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Commissioner Vanore says that while going 42:17 through the digital evidence, investigators have identified 42:20 three additional women who may have been harmed. 42:23 Two are described the same way. 42:25 They were found in recovered images unconscious 42:28 with visible injuries. 42:30 Now, one of them, they say that it was a woman around 25 years old, but they don't release 42:34 her name out of respect for her family's wishes. 42:37 And the second woman was still unidentified, is still unidentified, as of this recording. 42:43 But the third, Vanor goes further than anyone has so far when he describes what it was 42:50 they found involving her. 42:52 He said they came across a video, not a photo, an actual video from not one but two cameras. 43:01 One of the cameras, police say Raymond was controlling himself, filming as a woman used 43:06 drugs. 43:07 Then, he says Raymond horse hands her money, hand cuffs her to the bed, and then, using 43:13 a tool, basically like a pair of pliers, he puts a zip tie around her neck until she 43:19 looks lifeless. 43:20 Now, police don't identify this woman in the video publicly, again, out of respect for 43:26 her family, but there is a man watching that press conference on a live stream who already 43:33 knows who she is. 43:34 Because just a few hours earlier, detectives had been sitting in his mom's house, making 43:39 the death notification. 43:41 You see, this man is Jonathan Halloran Corrin, and for the past few years, he had been 43:46 looking for his cousin, Nicole Fusaro. 43:49 They'd been close growing up. 43:51 He described her as one of the sweetest girls you could imagine, but like both her parents, 43:56 she struggled with addiction. 43:58 Now the cousins lost touch around 2011 when Jonathan was living overseas for work. 44:02 He actually lost touch with a lot of family, which is why he didn't realize until 2020 44:07 that Nicole had gone missing. 44:08 He was just searching her name on Facebook and found a group created to help find 44:13 her. 44:13 And in that same sitting, one of the first posts he reads tells him that Nicole's 44:17 mom, Diane, who had been the one spearheading the search for her daughter, Diane had already 44:22 died two months earlier. 44:24 So Jonathan decided to pick up where Diane left off. 44:28 He was back in the US, pounding pavement in Kensington, where he found out she was known 44:32 to frequent. 44:33 And the same name kept popping up for him, Ray. 44:38 This guy known as a pornographer and photographer, who puts ads out on Craigslist, looking 44:43 for models. 44:44 And this is years before any of this broke. 44:46 Years. 44:47 So, his ears perked up right away when the first news articles were coming out mentioning 44:54 Raymond Horsch. 44:56 He started tracking the case closely. 44:58 And then on September 10th, a family member called him. 45:02 They had gotten a notification from Philadelphia police that Nicole was dead, connected to 45:07 what they called the, quote, Ray Horsch case. 45:10 police. This first notification was to Nicole's father's side of the family, and apparently 45:16 they had requested that Nicole's name not be publicly disclosed, which is why police 45:20 initially didn't say it at the press conference. Fast forward six days later, detectives showed 45:26 up at Jonathan's mom's place to give her a notification, too. Jonathan was there 45:31 when they arrived, so they tell his mom that Nicole was killed, strangled, and they 45:36 there was a videotape and Jonathan tried to ask them more questions about what was on the tape 45:42 but he said that they got super short with him they wouldn't tell him since he was not technically 45:48 the next of kin and they apparently said something like you know we know all about your advocacy 45:52 for the other victims because by this point like as he had learned about this investigation he 45:57 had been like petitioning for additional fbi involvement in the case okay so sorry for caring 46:02 Yeah, and listen he told them he's like I've got other leads that I want to hand over but at least to him 46:07 He said they didn't seem to like want to hear any of it 46:11 They didn't even give him like an email or a name to send his tips to and so then fast forward just a few hours later 46:17 There they are telling the whole country what's in the video? 46:21 Which is like what he was asking that they said they wouldn't say but you'll tell the entire public like that really rubbed him the wrong way 46:28 And he said watching that presser on the live stream 46:31 He told us he just felt anger and sadness, but Nicole's name, even though they're not saying it, 46:37 it doesn't stay secret for long. So that soon gets leaked to the media. 46:42 Nicole Fusaro, missing since July 2018, 27 years old. 46:48 And did police say when she was killed or when they believed she was killed? 46:52 Well, they say that like Maribel and Gabrielle, the metadata says 2017. 46:58 But just like in those cases, that's weird with what we know, right? 47:01 Like for Nicole, in her case, we actually know that she was alive and like spoke to her mom in 2018. 47:06 So the date has to be wrong. 47:09 I think so. 47:10 And Jonathan said that they did say something interesting to his mom. 47:14 So when she asked like when this happened, 47:18 they allegedly told her that the camera's date and time had to be set manually by hand. 47:24 So they don't even know if the date on the video was accurate. 47:28 So going back to like the question we have about all of them, 47:30 Honestly, we might as well just like completely scratch that date until we know more. 47:36 Though Jonathan did tell us that investigators have since told him 47:40 that his cousin's digital evidence was sent to a specialized FBI lab 47:45 and that the videos confirmed to be real and not anything like a deep fake. 47:51 So I don't know if they're going to be able to like pull more data or what. 47:54 Yeah, and do we know if any of the digital evidence so far has connected to like Amy or Blair? 47:59 No, not as far as we know they have not come up 48:02 What about all the physical evidence from the search of the only house like what we talked about from the beginning like blood the drum 48:09 like it does anything connect to 48:12 Any of these women as of everything we currently know today also 48:16 No, that significant amount of blood that they found early on got tested turns out. It's not blood at all 48:22 I don't know if it's like fake blood. I don't know if it's something that just like looked like blood 48:26 It may be something from one of Raymond's like cool projects and like all the chemicals the 55-gallon drum 48:32 The police haven't even offered anything up related to those 48:35 At the same September 16th briefing a reporter directly asked for an update on the chemical testing and the answer is basically like nothing to report yet 48:43 Still ongoing. So really they have the digital stuff, but no physical evidence 48:48 No bodies no remains like you're saying connecting to these women 48:53 So, I mean, my question is, like, are all the women actually dead? 49:00 Exactly. 49:00 There are seven women that we have talked about, five that police have said are on pictures 49:06 or footage in some awful way. 49:09 So a reporter actually asked Point Blank, like, you have five women who are on video 49:12 or, like, you've got pictures of them that they appear to be dead. 49:15 Is that right? 49:17 And the answer that's given is, quote, well, we know they're unconscious. 49:22 we know they're not there. 49:24 People looked at them, but as long as everything we see is accurate, 49:29 and we can't say that yet," end quote. 49:33 So like the same hedge is like applied to all of them at once. 49:37 Even though they're out there making like death notifications to family members. 49:41 Yeah, I guess so. 49:42 So what about the urns? 49:44 Oh, they've been digging into those as well, metaphorically speaking. 49:48 and investigators believe that three of the five are accounted for as of now. 49:53 So they think one is Raymond, one's another relative, and one is a friend, 49:57 but that does leave two that I think we're still unsure of. 50:01 And can you even DNA test ashes? 50:04 From everything I know, not reliably. 50:06 Like, it's my understanding that cremation burns at temperatures so high 50:09 that it destroys most of the DNA that like testing depends on. 50:12 I mean, sometimes labs can pull something from like a surviving bone fragment, 50:17 but it's really difficult. 50:19 So even if one of those two unlabeled 50:21 are like belong to one of these women, 50:24 they might never be able to prove it, 50:25 especially if there aren't any usable bone fragments left. 50:30 No, and there is a chance this could be 50:32 the Achilles heel of this whole case. 50:35 Because as it turns out, 50:37 those Philadelphia Inquirer reporters that I told you about, 50:40 Ryan W. Briggs, Max Merrin, Barbara Laker, 50:42 and Ellie Rushing, well, they figured out 50:45 that at one time Raymond had real documented access to an actual crematorium. 50:53 So back in 2014 Raymond did this art show in Kensington and the finale was this video that 50:59 he claimed shows a real woman who died of an overdose and the footage shows her body being 51:05 loaded into an incinerator and cremated and he wrote in his own promotional material quote 51:12 out. 51:13 The medical examiner totally botched the autopsy and didn't even bother to sew her up properly. 51:20 My horrible photograph is all that is left of her, the only trace of her short, sad 51:26 existence. 51:28 And it gets just more disturbing, because according to a law enforcement source and 51:32 people who knew him personally, this wasn't just Raymond being shocking for the sake 51:37 of it. He genuinely had access to a real crematorium, connected to the Garzone funeral 51:43 home, which got shut down over an actual illegal body parts trafficking scandal years earlier, 51:49 completely separate from this case. The Garzone brothers and a business partner were 51:54 apparently caught selling close to like 250 bodies worth of tissue and bones on the 52:00 black market, sometimes leaving bodies unrefrigerated in an alley behind the funeral home 52:04 for days before parts were harvested. 52:08 And all three ended up getting convicted. 52:11 The brothers, Louis and Gerald Garzone, they pled guilty in 2008 to running a corrupt organization, 52:17 conspiracy, theft, and abuse of corpse. 52:20 And they were each sentenced to 8 to 20 years in prison. 52:23 Their partner in the crematorium, James McCaffrey Jr., also pled guilty to running a corrupt 52:29 organization, conspiracy, and theft. 52:31 and he was sentenced to three and a half to ten years. 52:35 That whole thing honestly is like a horrifying case all on its own. 52:38 Yeah, and how did Raymond have access to this place? 52:41 Well, so according to people who knew Raymond, who then talked to the Inquirer, 52:45 he got into that building by paying somebody off, allegedly giving a guy named George Newsom 52:51 drugs and cash just so that he could get close enough to film actual human remains. 52:56 And I say allegedly because George died in 2014, so no one's been able to confirm it. 53:03 And the Garzone crematorium itself actually closed back in 2007. 53:07 From what the Inquirer reported, Raymond's access there goes back to the early 2000s 53:12 though when it was still operating. 53:14 And that 2014 art show, Raymond said that it was shot somewhere else entirely at 53:20 a Kensington warehouse where the city morgue sent unidentified remains. 53:24 Now, when our reporter spoke to journalist Max Maron about this, he made it clear this 53:30 isn't like a here's where the bodies went kind of situation. 53:35 It's more like this is just proof that Raymond had a real established pattern of seeking 53:39 out actual human remains for what he referred to as art way before any of this became 53:46 a criminal investigation. 53:47 And police are now actively looking into his connection to that crematorium as part 53:52 of their broader investigation. 53:55 But Max made sure to emphasize, 53:57 the timeline surrounding Raymond's access 54:00 to the crematorium doesn't directly line up 54:02 with any of the women that we know about, 54:05 at least not the ones we know about so far. 54:08 Right. 54:09 So what are we missing here? 54:12 Like where are the remains? 54:14 Where are the missing women? 54:16 That is the million dollar question. 54:18 It is something that haunts me. 54:21 And I don't know, dude, I just cannot stop thinking about the old horse house, the one 54:26 in Shalfon, in Bucks County, because, think about it, Raymond lived there for a long time 54:33 before Alney, and what we heard from neighbors there only adds to my uneasiness about the 54:38 whole thing. 54:39 Like, none of it's actually proof of anything, but one neighbor we spoke to described seeing 54:44 a hired groundskeeper, and they were like constantly moving dirt and stone with 54:49 wheelbarrow like into the backyard and their point was like that yard never showed any signs of 54:56 landscaping it was always a hot mess no garden nothing to show for all that work yeah and something 55:03 nearly every neighbor we spoke to brought up was that they all described seeing barrels around 55:09 the property and remember Jeremy Eugene's friend from growing up in the neighborhood we spoke to 55:15 he guessed that there were at least 15 total barrels at one point and he 55:19 believed at least some of them were full of something because he and Eugene would 55:24 climb on them as kids and they didn't like tip over and when he even asked 55:28 about it at one point he remembers hearing that it was like darkroom 55:31 chemicals for his like photography or something but like looking back in 55:35 hindsight he's like why would you need that much of like a darkroom chemical? 55:40 I mean that could at least explain maybe some of the stuff they found at 55:43 the house in all need too. I mean, even during like the most recent raid? 55:48 Yeah, but emphasis on some. Right. 55:50 While our reporter was talking to Max Maron, he brought up the fact that both 55:53 Raymond and Eugene were also into like horticulture and growing stuff 55:58 chemistry. Like those were their hobbies. So again, could there be an innocent 56:03 explanation for all the chemicals and stuff? I don't know. 56:07 Has anyone actually gone back and search that first property? 56:11 So this is the big thing for me. As of this recording, which is happening Tuesday, September 29, 56:18 2026, Philadelphia police have confirmed that they have not searched the Chalfont property as part 56:25 of this current investigation, which is why like we, like me and the reporters have been 56:29 obsessing over this because this house is like everything to me. It feels like where it started. 56:36 Yeah, and here is something that makes this feel even more urgent, something that I think is honestly huge and hasn't gotten nearly enough attention. 56:46 Remember that 2009 bus, the one that sent Raymond to prison? 56:51 A retired New Britain township police chief actually went on the record with six ABC Action News about that search recently. 57:00 And what he confirmed is wild. 57:02 field. In his own words, quote, as part of the investigation, firearms were found. There 57:09 were also IDs of various females. There were a few of them. The DA's office took them 57:17 and were going to follow up. I really don't know what happened after that. End quote. 57:23 Ashley, who are these women? Nobody has ever said whose IDs those were. Nobody has 57:29 confirmed if they were ever actually investigated or if they even still have them stored somewhere 57:35 at this point, or a list of them, like were they simply left behind by guests or is it 57:42 something more sinister? 57:44 Like it's been 17 years and that thread has never been publicly closed, which is unreal 57:50 to me since this whole thing started with the ID that had a missing woman's information 57:55 on it. 57:56 Again, though, technically, when it comes to the timeline, at least, with the names of these women we know so far and the dates we have so far, none of the victims we know, like, match up or could be linked to the Shelfont House. 58:10 Like, the timeline doesn't work. Raymond lost that house sometime after his 2009 arrest.
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