Patrick McKenzie is joined again by Kelsey Piper, who has co-founded "The Argument" to revive principled liberal discourse after witnessing how coordinated social media campaigns replaced substantive disagreement in newsrooms. Their conversation traces this institutional breakdown from media to government, examining how DOGE's spreadsheet-driven governance nearly destroyed PEPFAR, America's most successful foreign aid program that had driven infant coffin manufacturers out of business across Africa. The discussion ultimately argues that rebuilding both effective journalism and competent governance requires returning to the hard work of engaging with ground-level reality rather than managing online narratives. – Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/prestige-media-new-media-with-kelsey-piper/ – Sponsor: Framer is a design and publishing platform that collapses the toolchain between wireframes and production-ready websites. Design, iterate, and publish in one workspace. Start free at framer.com/design with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS for a free month of Framer Pro. – Links: The Argument https://www.theargumentmag.com/ – Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (00:31) The Argument (03:19) Challenges in modern journalism (06:42) The impact of social media on discourse (13:37) The role of Substack and independent media (20:13) Sponsor: Framer (21:30) The role of Substack and independent media (part 2) (30:59) The PEPFAR program and its importance (44:01) Impact of US aid cuts on global mortality (45:25) Substitution efforts and their limitations (47:54) PEPFAR's partial continuation and challenges (51:21) Consequences of administrative decisions (54:28) Elon Musk's influence and government actions (01:00:14) Challenges in government accountability (01:15:47) Reforming administrative processes (01:24:45) The role of community input in development (01:28:28) The power of constituent voices (01:30:15) Wrap
