Why the government moved against Julian Lewis

Chris Grayling failed to win the chairmanship of the Intelligence and Security Committee on Wednesday evening. In his stead, Julian Lewis clinched the position, and No 10 withdrew the whip from Lewis. On the podcast, Cindy Yu talks to Katy Balls and James Forsyth about why this happened and whether it's better to rule by fear or love. Also on the episode: Shamima Begum and Patrick Vallance's comments on working from home.

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