Women Ask Men to Be Vulnerable Then Leave Them: Are Relationships Impossible?

Join Simone and Malcolm in this in-depth discussion about the dynamics of emotional vulnerability between men and women, specifically focusing on why women often feel repulsed ('the ick') when men cry or seek emotional support. They delve into cultural trends, societal expectations, and personal experiences, examining how these factors contribute to the complexities of male emotional expression and relationships. The conversation also explores the biological, psychological, and cultural elements that shape emotional behavior and expectations in men and women.

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Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be talking about men crying and women leaving them, or men going to women for emotional support and then women getting the ick. This has been an ongoing trend as, as like a meme that goes around every now and then within.

The Red Pill diaspora, or even the original Red Pill or Mik Tal community back in the day. Mm-hmm. Somebody would be like, well, you know, ex girl said she wanted me to open up to her emotionally, or she wanted me to be vulnerable around her. Or a girl will say something like, well, you know, why, why don't men ever like show their emotions or cry or whatever?

Right. And, and then men are always like, well, because I tried that once and the woman never talked to me again or forced me or like. You know, over and over and over again you see these stories. Okay? And so, you know, I understand why you used to go viral is in the red pill community. Like my brain sees this and the first thought it has is that's so unfair.

I'm just picturing Greta

Simone Collins: Thunberg saying, how dare you? That's how dare you say this is what you want. I tried. And then what did you do? You left me. It also feels, it, it seems kind of fake to me though, so I, I'm, I'm, and keeping here more. What do you mean fake? Do you not

Malcolm Collins: think it really happens? I'm sure no men express

Simone Collins: themselves extremely flamboyantly all the time online and in person.

Like, I, I don't, I don't ever, I've never felt like men are withholding their emotions. I feel like what's actually happening here is women signaling, maybe because they're seeing a therapist or something, that they expect a certain type of emotional vulnerability. From their male partners. Like remember how you were walking behind those elite people at that one conference we went to?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And they

Simone Collins: were like, I would never date someone who wasn't seeing a therapist. It could be that their therapist or kind of giving this, by the way,

Malcolm Collins: who were saying it, and then,

Simone Collins: And so they're, they're then communicating to their boyfriends like, will you have to be therapy speak insecure? And then the men.

Attempt to, in a very fake and contrived way, open up and break down. And it, I mean, obviously they look like idiots because they don't actually, that's not how they feel. And then that, that might

Malcolm Collins: actually be a component of it. Yeah. I'm, I'm not gonna lie, I, I might feel like part of it because when I started like investigating my own experiences around this, right?

Yeah. Like the first thing I think is how dare women be that, you know, callous, that, that, that seems

Simone Collins: crazy. Yeah. But

Malcolm Collins: then, then I, the first thought is I'm. These women don't know that they don't want a guy to do this. Like they're not trying to trick their boyfriends into crying in front of them or something.

No. They genuinely think that this is what they want because this is what they've been told what they want. You know, they're not being well. Yeah. And what they've

Simone Collins: been told and, and by whom. Exactly. 'cause this isn't stuff that shows up. For example, in fantasy romance novels, men opening up in a way where they become emotionally vulnerable by crying does not happen.

In romance novels. Which very, which is very

Malcolm Collins: porn by the way,

Simone Collins: you know, which, which is, yeah. This, this is what women actually want. The, the monster er section of the library. Yeah. Doesn't, doesn't show up in that. Well, no, even like when I was a, when I was younger, I, I loved historical.

Malcolm Collins: Okay,

Simone Collins: romance. So like not, that's not, there were no monsters.

It was just always noble men 'cause they had to have money. You know, you have to be

Malcolm Collins: powerful. But then I, I started to think about, you know, before I dated Simone and I was like, well, because another thing I thought when I heard this is I don't remember having this problem. I don't remember any girl. Ever leaving me because I opened myself up emotionally to her.

Yeah. And I never intentionally tried to emotionally guard myself when I was dating. No. And I dated a lot, lot. You were extremely

Simone Collins: transparent, like from moment number one. So I think you also edited out anyone.

Malcolm Collins: But I'm and I, but I'm also from the perspective of a lot of guys. Whether they say simpy or effeminate or whatever word they want to use, you know, I do not appear to be the archetype of masculinity, nor am or at least a, a, a generalist societal archetype.

I would argue I'm an archetype, was in my cultural background. Yeah, we were,

Simone Collins: we were told one person noted that your neck wasn't wide enough. But I don't know how it could be any wider without you looking really weird. Yeah, no, they mean like a neck, like that's all I can imagine. Yeah. A triangle neck.

Yeah. Like what's his face? Who does some morning routines and has the most kyphotic posture in the world. He makes me so worried. No, but

Malcolm Collins: the, the point I'm, I'm making here uhhuh, right? Largely speaking mm-hmm. Is, is I, I am, I am couching what I'm about to say in a, this is Malcolm saying this.

You

know, Malcolm Effeminate, Malcolm Malcolm, who's never tried to overly represent a form of masculinity.

Sure, yeah. And I would, I thought to myself, I'd never had this problem.

Mm-hmm.

So then I searched my memory. You know, I, I've dated. A lot of girls you know, as I've mentioned before, I haven't mentioned in a long time on the podcast, so I probably should, like, I've slept with over a hundred women before I married Simone.

Like,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I really played the field for a long time and it was wrong. And I'm not saying it's a good thing I did it because I didn't have any other moral structure back then. I was just like, oh, what is status for men? Status is sleeping around, so I'm gonna sleep around, right? And then eventually I got to a point where I was like, this is stupid.

Well, it was

Simone Collins: fun for you,

Malcolm Collins: right? I mean, you had fun. Oh, I, I had fun, but more