Why Libertarian's, Despite Being the Worst, Are Usually Right

In this episode, Simone and Malcolm dive into the complexities of conservative ideologies, focusing on the differences between libertarians and traditional conservatives. They explore why many conservatives identify as libertarians when they're young but shift to the Republican party as they age, and discuss the pragmatic reasons behind this change. The conversation also delves into the disconnect between the Republican elite and their voter base, the influence of theocratic factions within the party, and the diverse range of conservative thought across various conferences in the UK and US. Join them as they unpack the nuances of cat girl conservatism, conspiracy theories, and the right to non-conformity.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] most conservatives I know go through a change where when they're younger, they identify as libertarians. And as they get older, they identify as Republicans. Why does this happen,

would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: I am excited for this episode. So I just got back from New Hampshire where I was speaking at a libertarian convention. And I had an absolute blast doing it.

Really great community. And one of the things we're going to Back to you later in this conversation is the different types of conservatives and the different ways that they interact. We got to meet with a conservative group in the UK where we were at a convention. Then we spoke with a convention in New Hampshire.

Then we spoke with a general conservative, like uncanceled sort of event in Vegas the weekend before. And then recently, you know, we spoke at the oh yeah, you've been talking to a lot of like conservative voters and stuff like that in the district. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Just like door knocking on Republicans

Malcolm Collins: houses.

So we've gotten this really broad and unique exposure and then we've got the pronatalist convention and then we've got like the broadly EA conservatives and stuff like [00:01:00] that. Which is just, they're nothing like each other. They see the world, nothing like each other and being at this libertarian event, a few things happened that made me really reflect on this one.

Somebody said, and this is a regular watcher of our show, you know, like an interacted fan. Oh, I had no idea that. You guys would consider your policies libertarian or you think that they would pass as like libertarian within libertarian groups. And this would be like, huh, I hadn't realized that we came off as so anti libertarian on this.

But then I also started to think about everyone I knew who was conservative when they were younger. And there's this insistent phenomenon within conservative circles, where as we've discussed in the episode of like, do your politics actually change? No, for most people, their politics are stable throughout their life, whether it's conservative or progressive, at least.

But most conservatives I know go through a change where when they're younger, they identify as libertarians. And as they get [00:02:00] older, they identify as Republicans. If they have sense. So one answer is, is why does this happen, right? And then the other answer is. I actually think that a lot of, like, broadly, I think most you know, like, intelligent, engaged conservatives, if you were going to ask them, like, what policy positions they actually want, the policy positions they're often going to describe are going to sound very libertarian in nature.

And that leads us to the episode's title question, which is why are libertarians the worst and yet write about so many things, if not almost everything, from a political standpoint? And I think that, and I'll just sort of start this, I think that part of the answer comes from the guy who said, Wait, you guys are Consider yourselves as having libertarian leanings.

And I was like, yes. In what way do you think we aren't libertarians? And he's [00:03:00] like, well, I thought, you know, you would just, you know, promote the policies that promote a, you know, pronatalist diverse breeding population agenda, right? And it's like, yeah, that is. One of our main goals, you know, economic prosperity from a political perspective is also one of our main goals.

And we are libertarian because we think that generally libertarian solutions, when we look at the data support, like, like end up solving these issues, whether it is fertility,

Simone Collins: basically libertarianism is the most pronatalist The political school of thought out

Malcolm Collins: there. Yes. When you look at the data, like, like, Which means just like,

Simone Collins: leave people alone.

Stop telling them how to live their lives. Don't tell them all to be progressive. Don't tell them all to be conservative. Yeah. Yeah. Just let them live their lives,

Malcolm Collins: please. And one of the things that I showed recently in an Aporia piece is graphs of if you look at, things like abortion restrictions, right?

And how strict a European country is on abortion has [00:04:00] almost a direct correlation with how low their fertility rate is. So trying to, in the same way, you cannot pay people to have kids. You cannot force them to have kids through a government restrictions yet. We haven't found somebody who's found the solution yet, but there may be more draconian measures that some countries I'm thinking China here may figure out.

Like forced insemination and stuff like that, but, but generally and, and so, yes, libertarianism works in this area, but also like our economic beliefs are mostly libertarian ish, ish, because we call ourselves bull moves with the Republicans. We think all large bureaucracies lead to inefficiency, whether that is a a government or a company.

We believe in trust busting, like Teddy Roosevelt did a lot, you know, he's a Republican who did a lot of trust busting, which is what we liked about him. So we, we have a, you know, unique, but mostly libertarian. It means that most of our policy positions are going to be libertarian. And what I realized is to the people who still identify as libertarians, [00:05:00] when they are adults, being a libertarian or supporting libertarian positions, Just because they are the most effective position doesn't make you a libertarian.

It isn't good enough. You need to support libertarian positions even when it functionally doesn't work. Heck, I'd be a communist if it worked. Like, if AI somehow makes, like, broadly, like, cash handouts work. Like, if in an AI world, like, UBI starts working and we enter some communist like system that creates the most prosperity and freedom was in a society, I'd be like, yeah, sure.

That's great. I was wrong about everything that I thought politically, but for us, politics isn't about ideology. It's about the end states that it creates. Whereas to the people who identify as libertarian as adults, many of them, that's not it. Their politics is literally about the ideology. So I want to hear your thoughts on this question.

[00:06:00] Why do conservatives stop being libertarians as they grow older? And why does the libertarian political sphere have this like intense ideological stance?

Simone Collins: Right. So I think it's because. pragmatic political actors, be they voters or politicians, realize really quickly that if they actually want to make an impact and do so within the government system, you cannot be a libertarian.

Like it's just, it's a really hard to get elected. It's, it's really hard to get on the ballot and to get attention and to get votes and to actually get into office. And I know this too, because at one point. I was trying to create a sizable list of elected libertarian politicians to do outreach to them, to i