Who Are We Afraid of Having Too Many Kids? & The Rise of the Bergens

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins explore the concept of behavioral isolation and its potential impact on the future of human evolution. They examine the differences between two distinct groups - the technophilic, industrially productive "elite" and the more traditional, less technologically engaged "Bergens" - and discuss how their divergent lifestyles and values could lead to a form of speciation. The hosts also delve into the importance of technological advancement and pluralism in ensuring the survival and autonomy of various cultural groups, and emphasize the need for a pronatalist alliance that rejects supremacist ideologies. Throughout the conversation, they stress the significance of industrial output and technophilia in maintaining cultural independence and avoiding parasitic relationships with the state.

Malcolm Collins: . [00:00:00]

Hello, Simone. We had a reporting team over at our house from France that are doing a documentary. And they asked people, really nice people. Yeah. They asked a question that I thought was really interesting to us. Which was, are you concerned about some groups being like really high fertility?

Are there groups that you want to be lower fertility? That scare you in some way. And this is a complicated question because the core answer is no, not really. But it's important to explain why the answer is no, because I think to a lot of people who are aware of we are genetic realists.

Like I, I realize that there are things that are heritable within human populations and we do have A level of concern where I'm like, it's not really concerned. It's just planning for the future because it's just a truism and there's nothing that can be done about it. That one of the cultural strategies that is very good at maintaining high fertility rates in the world today are cultures that disengage from technology that engage in practices that make them economically less productive because generally in the developed [00:01:00] world, the less wealth you have, the more kids you have and that maintain their culture.

intergenerationally with high fidelity, i. e. they don't allow their kids to be deconverted through xenophobia, through dehumanizing other groups. And so this cultural strategy has co evolved across many differentiated cultural groups. You'll see it in some Muslim groups. You'll see it in some Christian groups.

You'll see it in some Jewish groups. You'll see it in some Buddhist groups. And invariably, these groups typically have much higher fertility rates than the individuals near them. And so people would think, oh then what you must want to do is a lower the fertility rate of these communities.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: And to me, that only really matters in so far as you live in a socialist system where groups are specifically building hacks that.

Allow a group that is completely economically parasitic, high fertility. It can be damaging to other individuals and to state structures in a way that is [00:02:00] intrinsically unsustainable and will eventually lead to the collapse of the state.

So people might hear this and be like, what do you mean? Okay.

Imagine hypothetically there was a country that narrowed a group within it out. And this group was incredibly high fertility. But economically, totally unproductive. Technologically, totally unproductive and really did nothing to even contribute to the country's, military or defensibility, right?

This group had Triple the fertility of their neighboring groups. Eventually, they would be the majority population in that country. Then the country intrinsically collapses because that country then cannot be, it cannot produce the additional goods and the additional wealth and the additional technology.

Which is being siphoned by this high fertility community. And so either it ends this system or it eventually collapses. There is no other alternative. [00:03:00] The only other alternative I can think of is some faction within this parasitic community goes, Oh s**t, we shouldn't be doing this anymore because this is unsustainable and we're going to be the dominant group.

And so we need to start doing things like start engaging in the military. We need to start engaging more with technological productivity. We need to start working more. But then it's then they're not like that group at all. And typically, even if a faction of this community does end up adopting these practices, fertility wise, they're going to be outcompeted by the individuals who just did nothing but pump out babies.

So it really doesn't work unless you cut the state umbilical cord which ends up saving everyone because even the parasite ends up dying when the host dies,

Simone Collins: Because no one's going to, no one's going to bankroll the parasites lifestyle anymore.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I do. Have some concern about communities like that.

And they exist within many countries. Many people might think, oh, you're describing X group in my country. But the group that you are thinking of is [00:04:00] probably really focused on your country. And so you will see this as an attack. Just as actually, I don't want to name any groups here.

I'm just saying because then people are like, oh, so see, he was talking about that group. But these people exist in France just as much as they exist in the United States, for example. But but they're everywhere. So I do, they do pose a threat in that regard. But if you live in a country like the U.

S. where I hope or any, long term country that's really going to be a player like long term in terms of human history. Now that humans are super mobile, you're going to be dealing with countries that are much lower weight, i. e. they do not have these big state welfare systems.

And so they might only be charter cities where you end up getting people attracted to, but they will be countries that are much lower weight. In those countries, when you have sort of true capitalism I'm really not concerned about these groups at all. And people are like whoa.

Why aren't you concerned about them? Because they're going to have such high populations in the future. And the answer is in a future where these communities, and you do see this within these communities are [00:05:00] intergenerationally getting dumber. They're selecting for a lower IQ within their community because the individuals that are higher IQ are more pro social typically get deconverted from these communities at higher rates.

They're getting dumber intergenerationally, and they're getting more technophobic, both biological, like a genetic level, and at a cultural level, intergenerationally. They are not a threat to families that are, through genetic alteration, becoming more and my kids will have technology we can't even dream of.

So you're talking three or four generations down the line. Likely three or four standard deviations IQ higher. Then, the average person today and was like automated, as I say, like a, I kill drones like they are not afraid of people who are coming at them with, um, wet sticks and a case and this technological gap is widening and it's 1 of the things we're actually already seeing in society today.

And this is where I wanted to talk about something that you noticed Simone. So there were two environments we [00:06:00] went to recently. One is a secret society. It's called Dialogue. She used to be managing director of it. It was originally founded by Peter Thiel and Aaron Hoffman. And it's a great group, it's for like, when I say secret society, it's an invitation only event for people who are seen as likely to influence the future of the human race.

Simone Collins: Or who already do. There are different subset