What Does Paradise Look Like?

Malcolm and Simone have a thoughtful discussion about the meaning of utopia, examining why abundance, luxury, and leisure often fail to bring lasting happiness. They reflect on wealthy people they know who seem unhappy despite having everything, and posit that utopia may actually lie in having the opportunity to meaningfully impact the future and matter.

Malcolm suggests that living during a pivotal point in history provides that chance to matter. Simone notes people likely imagine utopia as simply spending time with loved ones, but Malcolm argues experiencing abundance reveals its emptiness. They discuss the ennui displayed in The Great Gatsby, and debate how to convey this truth to their kids.

Ultimately they conclude utopia isn't defined by material comforts, but by the chance to pursue intrinsic values and make a difference. Even those with privilege can achieve this if they use their position wisely.

Malcolm: [00:00:00] But here's really when people go into fantasy worlds. Right. This, this, I find really interesting. The most persistent fantasy world concept, you know, like in D or D or something like that is you was a group of people who are diverse, meaningfully diverse, often actually different.

Malcolm: And who do you actually get along with are working to change something that ends up impacting the future of that entire universe, that that fantasy that you get was in the most commonly created fantasy world actually falls into this model that we have of what true happiness comes

Simone: from. But most people would never intentionally sign up for that, like not for the world because it's a lot of work and it's scary and they might have to.

Simone: Sleep outside, a fox might chew on their head.

Would you like to know more?

Simone: Malcolm Collins. Hello.

Malcolm: Hello, Simone [00:01:00] Collins. I love you to death. And today we are going to talk about what I think is an interesting topic that I was musing on. So I was , watching one of these shows, right? Where they have the You know, the island made of gold or the city of gold, right? And it really got me thinking about okay, so you go to an island where there's a city of gold or gems or something like that, you know, the classic trope is you get to this place and obviously the signs that we now associate with status and luxury don't actually bring you any happiness.

Malcolm: They're not actually of utility was in this island because they are. So abundant. And then it got me thinking about utopias throughout history and what would a utopia be within our modern context. So historically one of the most common types of utopia. And I think that this is the one that's really talked about in the Bible is a land where whenever you plant crops, They always grow like this is the Garden of Eden, right?

Malcolm: So it's, it's a land where you can always have food, like food isn't scarce. But you still have to [00:02:00] put in some level of work for that food. You know, they had the, the, at least as much foresight to understand a land where just food appears as soon as you want it. That would be a, a, a nightmare, even, even to these, these early people.

Malcolm: They were quickly able to to understand that concept, but today, if you just had a land that produce food, whenever you put stuff in it, or food, you could work for, I guess, on a treadmill and then food exists I think most people would find that to be a dreadfully boring and uninteresting and disengaging place.

Malcolm: So then this started to frame for me, okay, what is a utopia these days? What does a utopia look like these days? So I want to hear your thoughts first.

Simone: First, I think utopias are more defined by an absence of things that people don't want. I think about the song Big Rock Candy Mountain, which a lot of people were introduced to by Oh Brother Where Art Thou?

Simone: And like the lyrics

Malcolm: No, no, no. [00:03:00] Way more people were introduced to it by

Simone: Flapjack. I don't know what Flapjack is. What is

Malcolm: Flapjack? Flapjack is a cartoon. . So the team that worked on Flapjack then went on to create like tons of shows that we now know.

Malcolm: It's, hold on, I

Simone: am actually freaking out about that. It's fine, Malcolm. It's fine. I don't get out much or even go online much. Okay. Okay. The

Malcolm: regular show adventure time at gravity falls, bravest warriors, Steven universe, Craig's Creek. Okay.

Malcolm: KO summer camp Island Hilda amphibia owl house.

Simone: Okay, I haven't heard about most of these, so I'm not feeling bad anymore. It was a very important show in the history of television. I'm not a child, I don't watch

Malcolm: cartoons. I do, because they're great.

Simone: Yes, they are, and I love that you watch cartoons, and our children love you for that too.

Simone: Anyway, this is originally a folk song. That was more about the life of someone who rides the rails, like a bum, essentially a vagabond. So it's, it's like all the, the, the [00:04:00] things that are in this utopia, the big rock candy mountain, is like food availability, and, and Law enforcement is very feckless.

Simone: All the cops have wooden legs, the jails are made of tin they're really easy to get out of, and you know, there's booze in lakes, and stuff grows on trees, and chickens lay soft boiled eggs, that kind of thing. So, food abundance, but you know, so I think that a lot of people, if they were to describe their utopia, they'd be like, well, there isn't bosses, or anything they hate, you know, there's no cancer and so, Well,

Malcolm: no, and I think that this is actually really important when we think about, so this question isn't an idle question because what this shows is that when people state what they're striving for in life, it's typically to not deal with the things that are bothering them most in the moment.

Malcolm: However, if they actually achieved an absence of those things, they would not be happy with what they achieved. So they can say, oh, it's. It's, it's, it's bosses that are terrible or [00:05:00] it's you know, law enforcement is terrible or it's not having food whenever I want it. That's terrible. And they get all these things.

Malcolm: So this is one thing that you and I have consistently seen because we hang out with a lot of very wealthy people, very unhappy, very wealthy people. And I'd actually argue that from the, the, the wealthy communities we know, very frequently. And I think that this is something that's not caught in happiness or well being surveys that show them as being you know, more happy on average because of all these things, you know, I want to do the money.

Malcolm: Yes. But they also have a deep ennui to them where it's very clear that they thought they would it. Sort of reached the end of, of some sort of quest they were on once they achieved a certain amount of, of wealth. But it doesn't buy them the answers that they sought. And of the wealthy people we know, the individuals who still seem to be the the most happy and mentally alive are the ones who are still sort of questing.

Malcolm: , and that they're questing for something other than just more wealth, because there's a certain type of wealthy individual. And these are often the [00:06:00] saddest ones where they achieve some level of wea