Weird Data: Same Sex Attracted Men Not Gay?

In this episode, we dive deep into the nuanced world of human sexuality, examining the often misunderstood distinctions between same-sex attraction and being gay. Using various statistics and studies, the hosts discuss why it's inaccurate to categorize all same-sex attracted individuals as gay, and how these misunderstandings affect societal perception and personal identity. They also explore the phenomenon of Mormon men with same-sex attraction choosing heterosexual lifestyles and the cultural and psychological implications of these choices. Furthermore, the episode addresses how progressive and conservative views clash over issues of sexual morality, personal choice, and the impacts of arousal patterns on behavior and identity.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] yes, you can be same sex attracted and not gay. And it's not even like a weird cope thing. It's just by the statistics, it doesn't make sense to categorize everyone who's same sex attracted as gay.

Because it sort of becomes arbitrary and you'll see this at the statistics

For example, while the 30 percent of males and females we surveyed who found the feminine form arousing also found the sight of a vagina a turnoff, not a single survey participant who found the male form arousing were simultaneously turned off by penises. However, 26 percent of men who found the site of a penis arousing simultaneously found the male form aversive.

But if you prefer the female form, there's more than a 25 percent chance, more than a quarter chance, you're going to find penises. Penis is arousing, even if you're a male,

Baby: which is just fascinating. Like what

Malcolm Collins: the is going on here. Right? Like there's, there's clearly like a system [00:01:00] at play in this way. I love researching this stuff because like psychologists, because they're so stuck in this gay straight dichotomy, they have missed that there is something more interesting going on.

Your entire life should not be oriented around getting off as easily as possible. Like, it is so weird that for progressives, you try to, like It's not a good look. It doesn't look the way you think it looks.

Speaker 6: There is more to life than what turns you on. Sure the path is harder, but we both mean it through this barter. You don't You don't have to do a thing

There is more to life than feelin good There is more to life than havin would This is somethin we once understood You don't have to do a thing

[00:02:00] What could be more important than ,

Simone Collins: sexual arousal patterns

Richard? Science?

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Simone! This is gonna be an interesting episode. Really? It was inspired by conversation around a new show called My Husband's Not Gay.

This sounds fun! Yes Mormon Same Sex Attracted Men, or SSA men, who While biologically they're same sex attracted, prefer to live a lifestyle in which they marry a woman and have children in a heterosexual relationship. And, as you can imagine, progressives are losing their mind over this. Where I saw this was in a, a, the popular YouTuber was talking about this called Curtis Connor, who's got around 5.

[00:03:00] 2 million subscribers. So the video he did on this has 3. 5 million views. So, you know, talk about aspirational for us. Right.

Speaker: My husband's not gay. The episode starts with an introduction to Jeff and Tanya, who have been together for nine years, and they also have a son together. And this is when they hear the term that they use to describe their lifestyle. I experience SSA, or same sex attraction. Not gay. All I notice first, a beautiful man walking down the street, or a beautiful woman walking down the street, I'll notice the beautiful man nine times out of ten.

Okay, someone who's attracted to men, thinks about men, wants to be with men, but also wants to be in a hetero relationship. Somebody that is attracted to the same sex, but wants to be in a heterosexual relationship. Not gay, SSA. Not gay, SSA. That's the new no homo.

Malcolm Collins: But obviously, you know, he's progressive. He made a point of, of whining about Trump in it. And he was like, these people shouldn't basically culturally be allowed to do this.

Simone Collins: Oh, [00:04:00] how dare you express your sexuality?

However you please.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, it's really interesting to me that progressives are so anti choice when it comes with individual sexuality, where they're like, if you have this arousal pattern, you have to adapt.

It's funny that the way that he speaks about Mormons is exactly the way I feel about ultra Progressive's. And they're extreme limitations in terms of the types of sexual choices. They let people live out. Because.

Being aroused by men. This was not this guy's choice. What is his choice is who he chooses to marry and how he chooses to live his life.

Speaker 5: Yeah, super sad. The fact that there's only one acceptable expression of love in a religion is pretty fucked up, to be honest. You're like, that's not really a religion you want to be a part of, but, you know, what do I know?

Simone Collins: Only selectively, because there are some sexual arousal patterns that they still do not allow.

[00:05:00] Both.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, they're, they're, they're coming around. I'll tell you, they're coming around on this map stuff. This minor attracted person stuff. They're coming around.

Simone Collins: Yes. However, in the UK, it's not okay to be into like BDSM, right? You know, you have to remove any Oh yeah, you're

Malcolm Collins: not allowed to be into people being hurt in Yeah, so Even if it's clearly consensual and you created it yourself.

Or if it's clearly consensual and animated, like cartoon, like no real people, illegal in the UK. It has been for like over a decade at this point. This, this was really scary living in the UK because I was like if I go to court, like, even if it's fairly tame stuff, if I go to court over pornography, that's going to really mess up my life.

Simone Collins: It doesn't look good on one's record. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: right. Yeah. But anyway, the, the point here being is that it is interesting to me that the progressive option here is to say, Oh, you're a same sex attractive Catholic and you [00:06:00] decide to join the priesthood, which by the way, depending on the statistics, you're looking around at 50 percent of Catholic priests are same sex attracted, which is just a, a.

F*****g awesome cultural solution, by the way.

Baby: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You're a culture that says you are not allowed to have same sex relationships, but if you happen to be same sex attracted, we have an institution for you where you can basically be an ethically sourced eunuch. So we don't need to worry about you being part of the religious hierarchy, accidentally having kids and then you showing nepotism towards those kids.

And we talk about this a lot more in some of our other content around this. But it seems like a good solution until you realize, yeah, but might that create like a weird thing around how they relate to young people under their care? And then you're like, Oh yes, I can see why the Bible warrants against allowing people to have leadership positions in the church.

If they are unmarried.

I love it when people are like, but Malcolm, you're [00:07:00] removing these people's choices and I'm like, no, you're removing their choices. They can choose to not be a Catholic pri