Detransitioners: The Culture War's Body Count - Discussion with Benjamin Boyce

In this thought-provoking interview, YouTube creator Benjamin Boyce joins Malcolm and Simone Collins to discuss the complexities of the transgender debate. They delve into Boyce's extensive work interviewing detransitioners, the concerning rise in rapid onset gender dysphoria among teenage girls, and the potential risks of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones on brain development. The conversation also explores the societal implications of the transgender movement, the influence of social contagion, and the importance of open dialogue and education in navigating this sensitive topic. Boyce shares insights from his personal journey and his documentary on the Evergreen State College protests, highlighting the need for nuanced discussions in the face of polarizing ideologies. The group also touches on the role of religion, the challenges faced by different communities, and the importance of protecting children while fostering understanding and compassion.

Benjamin Boyce: [00:00:00] Anyway, so he, he was a very effeminate gay man. He goes on these hormones and stuff. And then he become, he comes of age 18, 19, but he's still like a little boy

and I'm like, wait, they were, it wasn't just a gay thing. Like they had a young boy. It was basically legal

Malcolm Collins: PDF

Benjamin Boyce: files?. Because he was, he had all the attributes of, he was locked at 14, but he's 19. Oh, that's

Simone Collins: so gross.

Benjamin Boyce: So they're like, he was preserved and then offered on the altar of this stuff.

Simone Collins: No. Oh no. No.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello everyone. It is so wonderful to have you here again today.

We have a very special guest with us today, Benjamin Boyce his YouTube channel has one of the highest overlaps of subscribers was ours And if you watch it, it would be immediately obvious that Why he does lots of very high thought, high intellect intellectually dissonant interviews.

Benjamin Boyce: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But what's interesting is I can get a trickle of what you think in your perspective from the interviews, but I haven't, I, I'd love to have an interview that's like the you [00:01:00] interview, what you think on things.

So I'm excited to at least be one of the people who's doing this. And one of the projects you've been working on recently that I think would be a really great start to this. Is I guess I, I call it like the de transition project, which is lots of interviews with people who are well known voices in the de transition community.

I'd love it if you could just get started with what got you thinking about this and where you see things changing within that community over the past year or so.

Benjamin Boyce: Can I answer that question by asking you guys a question? Of course. Like, when did you become cognizant or invested in what we call the culture war, in its current iteration?

Malcolm Collins: Wow. God, that's a good question. Honestly, not at all until they started firing at us. It's very interesting. So I would have considered myself Is this about

Benjamin Boyce: Spankgate? So just two or three weeks ago? Oh god,

Malcolm Collins: No, before Spankgate. It was the beginning of the pronatalist stuff. Really, as soon as we started getting public attention [00:02:00] you're forced to pick a side these days.

And at first, both sides were yelling at us. But the one side when we'd sit down and try to talk with them they could have a lucid conversation. And then the other side, there just wasn't really a conversation. It was just. Concede and submit to our world perspective.

I'm actually going

Simone Collins: to say it's earlier than that. It's when we got involved in education reform in the state of Pennsylvania. And the mere idea that we were critical of the legacy education system meant that we were going to be Republicans. Just like period of course you didn't Republican because you don't think public school is perfect and in need of more money and therefore.

Obviously.

Benjamin Boyce: Yeah. So what year are we talking about?

Simone Collins: At least 2019. Yeah. Okay. We were like firmly centrists. And then when we were younger, we were full out, like quite progressive Democrats. I would say. Yeah. Blue

Benjamin Boyce: Pills. Yeah. Do you guys have any remembrances or you might be too young of Gamergate?

Oh my God. [00:03:00] Of

Malcolm Collins: course. Would I, when Gamergate was happening, like I was well on the side of the gamer, like I was like, okay this whole five guys situation is ridiculous. This is clearly a bit breach of journalistic integrity. But I think back then there was still a believable disconnect between the, of the time, the Tumblerina army the Tumblr internet and the cloud agendas and all of this insanity.

And. The real mainstream democratic party. Like I didn't think that those people had any direct connection on the type of policy that would be implemented by a Hillary Clinton government. That changed pretty dramatically over time.

Benjamin Boyce: What's your memory of Bernie Sanders, the 2016 lead up.

I never

Malcolm Collins: liked Bernie. So I, my favorite progressive, but not

Benjamin Boyce: commie. Yeah. That's interesting. Okay. So you're already, the red pill is already leaking into your

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, I loved who was the other guy, the old guy who [00:04:00] was the anti Bernie, who seemed really cool? Ron Paul?

Ralph Nader? Ron Paul. I really liked Ron Paul. Ron Paul seems like a righteous dude. Ron Paul is what all libertarian bros are really into. In the early political dissonant days, I was Ron Paul count, not Bernie camp. One of, one of my favorite things about Bernie, and this is like one of my favorite stories about him, because to me it represents who he is.

And I think he truly is both him and Ron Paul, I think, show themselves really honestly in the public sphere. And the big, it was when he was a kid younger than us, like in his late twenties, I think is he went to a commune and they kicked him out because all he would do is stand up in like the common room and give speeches every day.

And I was like, this man has not changed over the past 50 years. And so he is honest about who he is. It's just, I think a malicious element in society. But Our malignant element in society. But what about you? Were you at Ron Paul Bernie?

Benjamin Boyce: So I went to this college, hyper progressive [00:05:00] college.

I didn't know that it was going to be hyper progressive. It was just down the street from where I was living. And it was really cheap state school. I was older. I hadn't gone to college. So I got the Pell Grant and it was just like basically free college for four years. So I could pause my life and.

Concentrate on what I wanted to concentrate on, which is what I ended up calling narrative arts. Like what is the function of narrative? How do you build it? How is it deconstructed? What are the different ways to arrange, rearrange and derive meaning from it? And so I went to this place called the Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, which has a very non traditional structure, no grades.

Courses are like completely immersive, three, four or five professors for a quarter or a year. You just go there, you sink your teeth in and a lot of independent work. So that's why I went there. But when I got on campus, it w