An Anthropology of American Hillbillies: The Horror Stories Might Have a Point

In this episode, the hosts delve into the rich and complex history of the greater Appalachian cultural tradition in the United States. The discussion uncovers the stereotypes and realities of this cultural group, exploring Jack stories and horror tales rooted in Appalachian folklore that reveal values of cunning, anti-elitism, and underdog triumph. The episode also connects these stories to modern political movements and cultural phenomena, such as the MAGA movement and the character of Bugs Bunny. With insights into the tradition's violent past, gender dynamics, and unique traditions like 'Charivari,' the hosts provide a comprehensive look at how Appalachian culture continues to influence American society.

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. Today's conversation is one I have been excitedly digging into. Yes, you have. The history of the greater Appalachian cultural tradition or the backwoods cultural tradition in the United States. This is the tradition that you and I hail from. Predominantly, like obviously everyone's a mix of a number of traditions.

They're also heavily from the Puritan tradition, and you're partially Jewish as well. But the, the main one is the greater Appalachian tradition. And the reason why it's important to understand this tradition. Is because this is the tradition that makes up the core of the MAGA movement in Trump's voter base.

And American sentiment shifting from the cavalier cultural tradition of the deep South to the greater Appalachian cultural tradition, shifting from an aristocratic to an anti aristocratic, anti elitist tradition represents a big change in American conservative politics. So there's a reason to understand it, but I'm gonna be exploring it with the lens.

Of its stereotype in eighties horror of like inbred, backwoods murderers who are gonna like hunt down people and, and murder them.

Speaker: She's just human. Why don't you go over there and talk to her? . Whatever you say, just smile and laugh. That shows confidence.

Speaker 2: You guys, uh, going camping.

Hey, hey,

Speaker: now

Malcolm Collins: because as you will see when we go into more about this tradition from their, from their own stories. Yeah, that may not have just been a negative stereotype. Oh

Simone Collins: oh boy.

Malcolm Collins: This reminds me where this first came up for me is I was having a laugh at the Mormons, because, you know, in Utah they had the highest rates of searches for polyamory on Google Trends.

And then after having a laugh at them, I was like, well, I should at least check my own cultural group's, negative stereotypes. You know, then that, that's certainly not gonna be a closet full of skeletons. And it's like. VOR and s and m and,

Sorry, I can't forget incest as well,

Malcolm Collins: and then, and all of the other like horrible. Yeah. Like

Simone Collins: it makes Paul, I mean, polyamory, if anything is just about social complication, hierarchy, bureaucracy, contracts.

Then they have like your culture. Our culture, which is just sa savagery. Animals savagery.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay. So. First I wanna go into Jack Stories as an a sort of cultural explanation. So this culture passes its traditions down through oral stories with the most common type of these stories being the Jack stories.

Although after this we're going to explore their horror stories as a way to understand them as well. You might be familiar with one Jack story, which is Jack in the Beanstalk. Yeah. But it comes from like a wider tradition of stories. In Jack stories there is generally a, a chain of events. A, a, a poor and lazy but otherwise quick witted boy stumbles upon either a giant or somebody with institutional power like a rich man or somebody who represents like government, like a sheriff.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: He then tricks. Otherwise torments that person and has great glee at doing this. He then tricks and murders that person. He then takes all their stuff. You know, you're, you're very aspirational. Malcolm right is a rich person. I mean, this is fundamentally what happens in Jack and the giant Beans stock.

It is, yeah. And you're not considering the IT person. It always kind sat

Simone Collins: weirdly with me. It's, it's one of those stories though. I think there's a lot of stories that you get told as a kid where you don't really get the impression that there's a good guy or a bad guy. And I think this concept of good guys and bad guys needing to be pervasive in stories is.

You know, unnecessary. Well then you,

Malcolm Collins: you're clearly misunderstanding the cultural context of, oh, because

Simone Collins: he's the good guy. He's the clear, good guy here.

Malcolm Collins: He's unmitigated the hero of this world. Goodness gracious. He's not just the hero. These stories are told to teach children values, to teach children how they are supposed to interact with a world.

No. You even commented on how the values of these stories you have heard me say. To our kids in passing. Absolutely.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, one of Malcolm's constant rules was, it's okay to punch anyone larger than you. You can never punch anyone who's weaker or smaller than you.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I told this to our kids, you know, like she knows this because like the kids are always allowed to punch their older siblings and me but they are not allowed to aggressively punch younger siblings. And this is just part of this cultural tradition, right? Jack is always up against a giant or a very wealthy person or a sheriff.

He represents small, diminutive, underdog ness. If I'm gonna go over some, so, so like I mentioned Jack in the giant beans stock, if you're not familiar with that story, he goes out he goes to a market and buys beans. What are magic beans with, with the cow that he's supposed to sell? Instead of doing something diligent with it.

So he's very intentionally, like not a diligent person.

Simone Collins: I think he's supposed to just sell the cow for money so the family could buy food. And what does he do? He buys magic beans.

Malcolm Collins: And the, and the mom gets mad and throws the beans in the yard and they drove a giant bean stock. And then Jack climbs up the bean stock and he finds a giant generally in the original story is a giant has done nothing wrong.

Jack minding his own business just living up in the sky. Jack then murders the giant by tricking him, and he takes the giants you know, hand that can lay golden eggs and

a few other items. And they live like wealthy people for the rest of their life.

You know, the, the, the value here is goof off. Trick people more powerful than you, outsiders. Take your money. Don't

Simone Collins: follow instructions. Disregard your mother's orders.

Malcolm Collins: If you go to Jack and the Giant's new Ground Jack from a poor man family seeks out to seek his fortune. He stumbled upon a Giant's new ground, cleared land, and is captured.

So essentially he finds a giant spar plan and is captured the, the giant plans to eat him, but Jack tricks him pretending to be stronger, squeezing water from a rock, actually a wet sponge in press, the giant spares Jack and gives him tasks. Jack outsmarts the giant in each, eventually stealing his treasure and killing him by luring him into a trap.

EGA pit or collapsing break jack, home rich , but the point I'm making, if, if you study th