Show full transcript 0:53 chance to show you on Friday night. 0:55 So today we're going inside the story of D. Warner, a mom and a successful business 1:00 woman in rural Michigan who vanished without a trace from her family farm 1:05 where she had lived with her husband and their nine-year-old daughter. 1:08 Well, oddly, her cars were still parked in the driveway. Her wedding ring was left 1:13 behind on a desk in her husband's office. So, understandably, people were 1:17 wondering why would she just pack up and walk away from what seemed to be a 1:21 pretty happy life from the outside looking in. Well, this story was 1:25 absolutely heartbreaking and utterly captivating too at the same time. In large 1:30 part because of the talented journalist who brought it to us. You know her from 1:34 her years of reporting here at ABC. She's the anchor of ABC News Live Prime and 1:39 World News Sunday. She's a colleague and a friend. Lindsay Davis is joining us for 1:44 the first time on our podcast Lindsay. Thank you for having me. And boy you cleaned up beautifully. Oh I knew I was sitting down with you. You always do you 1:51 always do but it's great to have you and for us to get a chance to chat 1:55 full disclosure you and I are friends outside of the office. We see each other a lot and we're 2:00 always passing each other in the hallway maybe giving snippets of what we're working on but 2:04 this is the first time you've done a story for us. And I'm so glad because as you know the 2:09 news cycle is so fast and furious and so normally I'm just doing kind of like what is the day 2:15 of and then we're moving on to the next thing the next day and as you described this is a deeper 2:21 Dive 2020 allows you to to take that time and linger a little longer and really get to know the 2:27 characters and really understand and a curious mind like we both have and you know kind of 2:34 peering behind and peeling back the onion it's really a great opportunity. Well I want to talk 2:39 about the story but first I want to talk about you because some people here may not 2:43 necessarily know you you report on politics you report on as you said day of on your 2:47 your nightly show. Tell us a little bit about your passion. I mean, I know you had a similar, 2:53 I think, rise in the business as I did, worked in local news and made your way to ABC. 2:58 So talk a little bit about your passion for this business. 3:01 Sure. So when I was third year in college, I just kind of had this epiphany that 3:07 that's what I want to do. I was in Spain watching the news in Spanish. I should have 3:12 understood much better than I did but it was kind of like you know Charlie Brown's 3:17 mom want want want want and I just it really actually sharpened the moment for me because 3:23 I wasn't listening I was just really tuned in to the idea the craft and in that moment 3:31 because I really thought I was gonna be a psychologist there were so many other things 3:34 and in that moment I thought I'm naturally a curious person I like to ask questions 3:40 I'd love to write, I like public speaking, and it just kind of felt like they all blended 3:46 together so perfectly as a journalist, and I'm not great at math, so. 3:50 I think a lot of journalists have actually made that declaration. 3:54 Well this story, and of course this is the first time you've kind of delved into true 3:59 crime. 4:00 You do so many other stories sometimes that touch on this, but it is sort of interesting 4:04 to me, you know, we cover these stories weekly, and many times there are women at 4:08 center of these crimes, sadly. And in this case, there is a woman. And women are very 4:14 attracted to these stories too. So let's talk about D Warner. A mom, and you and I were 4:19 talking about this. I happened to pass you yesterday, and we were talking about her 4:22 a 52-year-old woman. A mom, they had, she and her husband, Dale, had kind of a blended 4:26 family, right? He had kids, she had kids, they were mostly grown when this happened, 4:31 and they had a nine-year-old together. So give me your sense of your, this is 4:36 rural Michigan, you go out, 4:38 you're gonna meet some of the family and friends. 4:39 What was your take initially? 4:41 So, well, first, and it was brought to me 4:43 when the EP of 2020, Janice Johnson and Joseph, 4:47 they came into the office 4:48 and they were telling me the background 4:50 and without knowing the conclusion. 4:52 So it's, you have these two families 4:54 that were big prominent farm families in Michigan. 4:58 They were kind of rivals. 4:59 And then they're having an affair 5:02 and end up leaving their spouses, marrying each other 5:05 They're bringing those blended families together and then, as you say, they have the nine-year-old 5:10 daughter together, but it was really like a who-done-it because there were so many, 5:16 she had gotten into an argument with one of her employees at the trucking company. 5:22 Her husband is saying, well, look, you know, she was feeling kind of dark and going 5:26 down a rabbit hole of like, maybe nobody will care if I'm here. 5:30 She has all these medications because she had migraine headaches, 5:34 so he's opening up the cabinets for police. 5:36 And so it was before I knew the end, 5:40 I was thinking there were a number of people, 5:43 the husband's also talking about a burner phone 5:45 and maybe she had, you know, an affair. 5:47 And so it really was the classic who done it. 5:51 And again, just being able to travel and meet with, 5:55 I was able to interview one of her daughters. 5:58 And it was just fascinating to, even though this story had already concluded, for the 6:05 most part, just going back in time to walking through the paces of, for example, the day 6:12 that she first went missing. 6:14 Yeah. 6:14 And let's talk about that too. 6:15 So you set the scene of her being, you know, these two having this kind of complicated 6:20 relationship and drama in the town. 6:24 But they are together, presumably doing very well. 6:27 And you described her as like this really, you know, big business woman. 6:31 I mean, she's doing what a lot of women do, kind of a universal story. 6:35 She's juggling a lot of different things. 6:37 They've got a farm. 6:38 She's got a trucking company that basically she runs. 6:41 Exactly. 6:42 And so she's really this woman, kind of in a man's world, if you will, 6:46 in the trucking company and the farming industry. 6:48 But it turns out that the farms weren't really the lucrative aspect. 6:53 It was the trucking company that was in her name. 6:56 And so while they had kind of built this empire together and for all intents and purposes when you're looking when you drive up 7:03 We're in rural Tipton, Michigan, and when you get there 7:06 It's really just you know farmland and cattle it right so they have this million-dollar home that really sticks out 7:12 She's got you know hummer all these fancy cars that even though 7:16 Her office and home are just really a few yards away. She's driving this big hummer 7:22 you know from one place to the other she always has her nails done her makeup done her hair 7:29 she's really fancy not what you would typically consider not exactly exactly and so 7:35 big personality feisty you know even you know her children describe her as being a really 7:42 bombastic kind of person let's go back to April 25th 2021 so she's missing she and her daughter 7:49 Raquel typically have what Sunday breakfast or something together. Raquel comes to the house 7:55 and her mother's missing. Her mother's missing which she initially right off the bat thinks this 8:00 is strange. So she's texting her mother, she's calling her mother and she said that her mom is 8:06 the kind of person who is always going to answer the phone no matter what the circumstance is. 8:12 So right away she's thinking something is off here. They though continue and make the breakfast. 8:18 She's asking Dale, where is Dee? 8:21 Where's my mom? 8:22 Oh, I don't know, you know? 8:24 I left, I've been out on the farm, not sure, 8:26 but he doesn't seem worried about it as her daughter is. 8:31 And as they continue, you know, 8:34 the kids are calling each other. 8:35 Have you heard from mom? 8:38 Nobody's heard from her. 8:39 You know, it's getting wider in the family. 8:41 Her brother gets involved. 8:43 And what's kind of concerning all of them 8:46 is that Dale doesn't seem worried. 8:49 That concern, hmm. 8:51 He said that maybe they had had, you know, 8:53 they have fights and maybe she had decided to go 8:55 and storm off. 8:56 What did you learn about their relationship though? 8:59 You said that these two had, you know, left their spouses, 9:02 they're together, presumably now they're happy, 9:04 but they had a pretty tumultuous relationship 9:06 you reported in the piece. 9:08 So, Raquel, her daughter who I interviewed said 9:11 that her mom had told her that this was the night 9:14 she was going to confront Dale and say the marriage is over and so it gets to 9:20 the point where she actually had planned it where her nine-year-old daughter she 9:25 has her stay somewhere else because she's anticipating it's gonna be a big 9:30 fight. Well he told investigators that it was just a little argument and let's 9:35 take a listen to what he told the police when they questioned him at the 9:38 farm the day after D went missing. Alright so you're just basically saying 9:43 and drag her feet, she's gonna turn up. 9:45 That's what kind of you're saying, 9:46 you don't expect foul play. 9:47 No, I mean, I don't want to get, 9:50 her kids are going around. 9:51 Yeah. 9:52 You know, getting excited, that's fine, it's all right. 9:54 Right. 9:55 But she's done this before. 9:56 I mean, I don't want to get everybody 9:58 all worked up and excited for, 9:59 and she shows up tomorrow. 10:00 Well, the flags that I'm seeing 10:01 aren't the ones that are scaring me 10:03 as far as anything other than, 10:04 I mean, she left the ring here. 10:05 I mean, that's a, you know, 10:06 a big one she took, her money cash. 10:08 I mean, our daughter's the biggest one. 10:09 Right. 10:10 Right. 10:11 Absolutely. 10:13 I just wanted to go home. 10:15 Now what did you make of this? 10:16 Now you jump into this story 10:18 and one of the things that's so, 10:19 I think intriguing about this podcast 10:21 is we get a chance to talk a little bit more 10:23 than we did in the piece. 10:24 What was your take on this whole notion 10:26 when you got there? 10:28 The idea that he would say she just disappeared. 10:31 I mean, you knew ultimately what happened 10:33 but did that make sense to you? 10:34 Well, I have to say in the police body camera footage 10:38 he seems cool as a cucumber. 10:40 remember. He's welcomed them on the property. He's willing to answer the questions. He seems 10:46 just so casual. His behavior, his body language doesn't seem suspicious. He does lead on to 10:55 the fact that he has a burner phone, you know, and this was not unusual for her to 11:01 disappear. And that's behavior that her family did back up. And so he seemed very credible. 11:10 Well, I have to say, and I'm a suspicious person. 11:13 And even knowing at that point what I knew, 11:15 but I thought, wow, he handled that really well. 11:19 Which is why police weren't that 11:21 alarmed in the very beginning by hearing his story. 11:23 What was interesting is that we heard something, 11:26 you were, when you talked to Raquel, 11:28 that we've heard in a lot of these episodes 11:30 that we've done when a woman 11:31 is having some problems in her marriage 11:33 where she tells someone, 11:34 and in this case, Raquel says she told you 11:37 that she watched two crime shows 11:39 and she actually says something that was kind of chilling. 11:42 If something happens to me, possibly Dale is capable of this? 11:46 She told her daughter, because this was something that she enjoyed watching, 11:50 like millions of Americans. 11:52 She said, I could see Dale doing something like that to me. 11:55 Wow. 11:55 And that was something that obviously, as it would for anybody, stuck in her daughter's head 12:03 that her mother felt that this was possible for her stepfather 12:09 to take her life, and furthermore, D's brother finds it so disconcerting that Dale is not 12:17 actively looking for his sister for D, and so he takes out a billboard, a huge billboard 12:24 in Tipton, Michigan that says, help Dale find D. Basically saying, Dale, why aren't 12:29 you doing enough to do anything to try to find your wife? 12:33 Essentially calls him out on it. 12:35 Well, the family does take matters into their own hands, and don't go anywhere 12:38 because that is a key point. We're going to talk about that. The mystery of Dee's disappearance 12:42 goes on for more than a year. The family does take matters into their own hands and we're going to get 12:47 into how they did that and the questions that began to surround Dale after we take a quick break 12:52 and we're going to hear more of Lindsay's interview with her daughter Dee's daughter Raquel. So 12:56 don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Today I want to tell you about our friends 13:06 at Layla Sleep. We cover a lot of difficult stories on this show, some that might make 13:10 hard to sleep at night, but Layla makes one of the best mattresses on the market, and also one 13:15 of the most affordable. 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This discount is only good for a limited time. Head to abcsecretsavings.com slash 2020 14:09 and start sleeping easier today. That's abcsecretsavings.com slash 2020. 14:33 Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. 14:37 Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan, 14:39 equivalent to $15 per month required. 14:41 Intro rate first three months only. 14:42 Then full price plan options available. 14:43 Taxes and fees extra. 14:44 See full terms at mintmobile.com. 14:49 Hey, welcome back to 2020, The After Show. 14:51 I'm here with my colleague, Lindsey Davis, 14:53 who investigated our most recent 2020 episode 14:56 called Help Dale Find D. 14:59 It's the story of a Michigan mom and business woman, 15:02 de-warner and her disappearance and Lindsay's been filling us in on the 15:07 details of the family and their life. You talked about how she was thinking of 15:11 leaving her husband, which is pretty big stuff. Did he know that she was thinking 15:16 of it? It's not clear that he knew prior to that. Clearly they had a tumultuous 15:22 marriage and relationship. Things weren't great. Things weren't great. 15:26 And so, this seems that that particular night, things were coming to a head. 15:32 Now, why this is a particular concern potentially for Dale, 15:36 in addition to the fact that he may have loved his wife, is the money. 15:39 Because she ran the trucking company. 15:43 She controlled the bulk of the money. 15:44 The trucking company was the money maker. 15:47 So now, if they split up, he's going to lose the money. 15:52 Yeah. And that is, well, a key factor 15:55 if somebody is worried about right his wife his wife leaving him. Well the marriage was described 16:00 as you said is volatile. There were no incidents of domestic violence reported to police, 16:04 but her friend Stephanie Dee's friend actually did talk to 2020 about their relationship. Let's 16:10 take a listen. They were in an argument in her bedroom and he got upset and pushed her and she 16:17 fell and hit her head on the dresser. It was the next morning she came in and showed me the 16:25 goose bump on her head. I just remember distinctly asking her like, 16:31 do you why is this okay? 16:34 So her friends were concerned. Clearly this was a relationship that was 16:39 trouble. And there were allegations that he actually put a tracking device on 16:43 her car. So Raquel tells me that her mother 16:48 had come to her and said, you know, I feel like Dale is following me. 16:51 And so they take a look at her car. 16:55 There is a tracking device when they take the car 16:59 into the mechanic, but Dale said, 17:01 oh, I was just trying to figure out something with the car. 17:04 I wasn't trying to track her. 17:06 Well, your interviews were so compelling. 17:09 And as I said, you spoke with Raquel, her daughter. 17:11 You had a chance to really hear her side of the story. 17:14 And there were parts of your interview, 17:16 which is one of the things we like to share with you 17:18 here on the podcast. 17:19 There were things that we didn't get to hear on Friday night. 17:21 So let's hear a little bit more of your interview with Raquel that talked about how 17:25 Dale could possibly have a hand in this. Let's take a listen 17:29 Was he doing anything to try to find your mom? No 17:32 the only I 17:35 Really don't think he has he did 17:40 Anything at all to find her I don't think he even called the hospitals. I don't think he 17:50 He did not show up to the searches 17:52 on foot. I mean he didn't call the law enforcement 17:56 and even when the law enforcement showed up to talk to him about 18:00 her being reported missing. He still was like 18:03 I don't think she's missing. I mean he was never 18:07 urgent to find her at all. 18:10 This is a small town where there are signs, 18:14 was there an active buzz in the community about 18:18 where's Dean Lerner? Yeah, so we had Justice for D signs made and people 18:27 bought them, people donated for them everywhere. I mean there were yellow 18:34 signs saying Justice for D everywhere. We had wristbands for Justice for D and we 18:42 We had pens, we had, I mean, we just, anything we could do to shout from the rooftops of like 18:50 we need help from our community. 18:53 We did. 18:54 And Dale was not part of that. 18:55 No. 18:56 There was actually a sign put in his yard and he took it immediately. 19:01 Took it down? 19:01 Yes. 19:03 So those signs, people calling for justice for D, there were iPad searches, I mean 19:08 this thing was starting to get a little bit more, the cloud of suspicion is sort of 19:12 hanging around Dale a little bit. 19:13 In fact, just weeks after her disappearance, 19:16 later on, detectives were able to find 19:19 that Dale had searched for, 19:21 how do you bury a thousand gallon propane tank? 19:26 And so that's why investigators are under the belief 19:30 that she's buried underground somewhere. 19:33 Wow. 19:34 So the idea that this woman is missing 19:36 and it's so fascinating to us, 19:38 she's missing, nobody's found a body. 19:40 two years go by, two years go by, 19:44 he's still missing, and there's suspicion, 19:47 there's circulation of all of these rumors, 19:50 but police ultimately look at Dale, right? 19:53 And in November of 2023, they arrest him. 19:56 They actually charge him with murder. 19:58 Without a body. 19:59 Without a body, which is so intriguing, 20:01 and tampering with evidence, 20:03 which is pretty remarkable for them 20:05 to make an arrest without a body. 20:06 And we've done many stories here on 2020 20:08 where this happens. But ultimately, they just could not ignore the fact that this seems so 20:13 suspicious. And there's something in Michigan that often happens in particular where it's 20:17 open murder where the prosecutors don't necessarily have the first degree or second degree. You're 20:24 able to let the jury decide. But it wasn't until, you know, a good amount of time, 20:31 I believe a year later, that they found his body. And so at that point, it was 20:37 a pretty open-and-close case. 20:39 And they call it open murder. 20:41 Right. 20:41 So that's the way they were able to do this. 20:44 And this is, I mean, obviously for the family, 20:46 this had to just be heart-wrenching, too. 20:47 I mean, looking inside your family, 20:49 it's bad enough that they sort of, 20:50 some of the family members suspected this, 20:52 but to actually see that Dale is being charged 20:55 with Dee's murder had to be just wrenching. 20:58 And Raquel talks about just how she was on pins 21:01 and needles, hoping that he would be found guilty, 21:05 hoping that he would be arrested, 21:07 hoping that he would be convicted. 21:09 And so as you mentioned, 21:11 years are going in between from the mom's disappearance 21:14 to him actually being arrested, 21:16 to him actually being found guilty of murder, 21:20 which just happened recently. 21:22 And they describe this as such a relief. 21:25 In fact, she had been holding off getting married 21:29 because she just wanted some closure first with her mom. 21:33 Yeah, which is, you know, understandable. So he the years go by and that was what was so I think just so captivating but also so 21:43 Oddly 21:44 Tragically compelling in this story. They don't find the body but then ultimately they do go to a fertilizer tank 21:51 They cut it open and they find these body 21:53 Which for the family on the one hand, there's relief on the other hand. There's a horrible conclusion a horrible conclusion and 22:02 And Raquel, even though this had happened, you know, back in 2021, when we're talking 22:08 to her now, you know, more than five years later, she had just kind of asked and answered 22:13 because this is something she had been going through for so long. 22:17 But there was just a moment when we talk about at the end what she misses about 22:23 her mom and, and having this closure where she finally does, you know, just break down 22:29 and that emotion comes through because it's been so prolonged and so dragged out 22:36 for such a long time where you're just waiting to find out and this is going 22:41 back to as you talked about earlier she had said her mom had given her that 22:46 kind of warning that she had that premonition when she was watching the 22:50 true crime show that Dale could do this to me. And the way her body was 22:55 found to the medical examiners that her mouth had been taped shut, and she'd been strangled. 23:00 Which an investigator didn't say this, but the idea that her mouth was taped shut, you 23:05 can anticipate that there was a torment in her death, right? 23:11 And so that he was just trying to keep her quiet so that she wouldn't rouse anybody 23:16 or draw any attention to this. 23:19 And it just adds to the pain of it all, that it was so brutal. 23:25 It was brutal. 23:26 And Lindsay, I have to tell you, I mean, even as we sit here and talk about it now, we've 23:30 seen your report. 23:31 Many people have seen it. 23:32 Some may be seeing it now for the first time after this podcast. 23:35 But as a reporter, you know, we often sit down and we're talking to people about 23:39 the worst days of their lives, and I've talked to people like this where the mom 23:43 and the daughter had a bond and something happened like this. 23:46 How is she doing, Raquel, and the rest of the family today? 23:49 So Raquel got engaged and after all of this was the closure that they've been 23:55 looking for for years and her fiance put her mom's birthstone in the engagement 24:02 range which she felt was just so special and she said that it had been so 24:08 important for her mom for her to get married and so she is it's still heavy 24:14 This is something that she'll they'll never be the same 24:17 But but she is is moving forward, which you know her mom would obviously which is yeah 24:22 Which is important and I'm sure her mom would have but families destroyed and you think about that that young daughter 24:28 Who now has lost her mom and now lost her father essentially lost her father, right? 24:33 Isn't well, you know Lindsay you you brought such depth and such 24:37 You know a personal touch to the story and you really do feel it for this family 24:42 As I said, and we said earlier, this is a universal story. 24:45 We hear it often about women who are in these dire situations and many times trying to get 24:51 themselves out of it and it becomes a very difficult. 24:54 Experts point out that the most dangerous time for a victim is when they're about 24:59 to actively leave somebody. 25:01 So when we come back, and I think this is so important, Lindsay, don't go anywhere 25:03 and don't you go anywhere, because we're going to talk to an emergency room psychiatrist 25:07 about how to safely leave a volatile relationship 25:11 in the resources that actually are out there 25:13 that could keep you or someone you love safe. 25:16 So stay with us. 25:23 Traditional home security only alerts you after a break-in 25:26 and that's too late. 25:28 Simply Safe is changing that. 25:29 Stop, this is simply. 25:32 We don't just alert. 25:33 We help stop crime before it starts. 25:36 Plan starting around a dollar a day. 25:38 Right now, get 60% off your new system 25:40 with professional monitoring at simplysafe.com slash Spotify. Simply safe ahead of crime in real time. 25:47 Outdoor deterrence plans started $49.99 a month. Visit simplysafe.com slash licenses for 25:51 alarm license information. Welcome back to 2020 the after show. I'm sitting here with Lindsey 26:00 Davis who brought our most recent 2020 episode called Help Dale Find D which centered around 26:06 the disappearance of D Warner, a Michigan business owner and mom who ultimately was found 26:13 dead and her husband was actually convicted of her death. Well friends and 26:18 family said that she was about to leave her marriage and according to the 26:22 National Domestic Abuse Halt Line exiting a relationship is the most 26:26 unsafe time for a victim, typically a woman, and on average it takes a victim 26:30 seven times to leave before they actually stay away for good. So we 26:35 want to talk a little bit more about that and leave you with something 26:37 that you might be able to use in case you know of somebody who might be 26:41 in a situation. So joining us now is emergency room 26:44 psychiatrist, Dr. Ajua Smalls-Monte, who has been 26:47 with us a few times before. Dr. you're welcome. 26:50 Thank you. Good to have you again. 26:52 Good to have you. Well, Lindsey reported on this 26:54 story and, you know, for a lot of people, this is 26:59 something that they recognize and you're right 27:00 there on the front lines. You've seen these 27:02 kinds of incidents where women are about to leave. 27:05 Give us some ideas here about how they can avoid 27:08 of the danger in this difficult situation? 27:11 A lot of the danger comes from, like you said, 27:14 when you're about to leave, 27:15 and that's because the perpetrator 27:16 is about to lose control. 27:18 And abuse is all about control. 27:20 When they feel like they're about to lose it, 27:22 they want to rein you back in. 27:24 They're going to try to monitor you. 27:26 They're going to try to control you. 27:28 And when they feel like they have lost control 27:30 when you might have left, 27:31 then they feel like there's no need 27:33 to have any more restraint. 27:34 They've already lost the game, 27:35 so why try to be on their best behavior? 27:37 And even when someone has left and you think that you're okay and you're safe, sometimes 27:42 there can be prolonged separations, a long process, especially if children are involved. 27:47 There can be custody hearings, there can be court dates, things where you are meeting 27:51 at predicted times. 27:53 And so that gives many opportunities for someone to maybe plan to do something that 27:57 can be dangerous. 27:59 And many people, I think many of us are guilty of saying, why doesn't she just 28:03 leave? 28:04 Right? 28:04 But for those who ask that question, what are they misunderstanding about abusive relationships? 28:10 When you're saying why didn't someone just leave, you're assuming a lot of things that the person 28:15 that is ill in abusive relationship has freedom and that there is no risk. And that's not the 28:21 case in an abusive relationship. There's a lack of freedom because there might be constrained 28:26 resources. You may not have the money. You may not have the transportation, a place to stay. 28:30 You can have responsibilities, whether there are kids involved, you can have pets. 28:37 You may not even psychologically be aware that you are being abused. 28:40 And then there can be a lot of things that might keep a person there because they are 28:45 worried about social isolation, they may not find another partner, religious reasons. 28:51 And also, you're assuming that they haven't tried. 28:54 And like you said, sometimes people have tried seven times to get away. 28:58 So, what behavior should people be thinking about that might be a tip-off that this could 29:02 really end in something volatile and dangerous and violent? 29:06 If you see someone starting to escalate their control over you or over someone that you 29:11 are concerned is an abusive relationship, that's a definite tip-off. 29:16 That control can look like they're following someone, they're tracking someone, they're 29:20 maybe popping up at places where the person is known to be, they could be monitoring 29:25 your finances or phones. They're searching your social media, your searches. They might increase 29:30 their violence against you, then apologize and try to rein you back in. They might also try to 29:36 isolate you from people that could be of help. The key word is control here. And you talked about 29:42 that isolation because we see that, that's like a textbook scenario. What should family members 29:48 do or friends do who are concerned that they're witnessing this with a loved one? 29:53 The first thing is to have an open conversation with that person. Make sure 29:57 you're choosing a safe time to approach someone where you have a little bit of 30:02 time to really explore the subject and it's not just, I think this is happening 30:06 to you. How are you doing? Just open it up like that. See what they are giving 30:10 to you and then you can say, I noticed this. Is this happening? The person 30:15 might confirm it. They might deny it. I have had many patients that deny 30:19 something is happening even though it is very clear and they're scared of, this person said if I tell 30:25 someone they're going to do something even worse to me. And resources, so what's available out there 30:30 to help people who may not feel that they have the the the opportunity to get out? So if you're 30:35 trying to plan a getaway there are certain resources like the National Domestic Violence Hotline 30:41 that can help you plan. There's also Safe Horizon which is the largest domestic violence 30:47 and victim services agency in the country 30:49 that can help you plan, 30:50 that can help you find a massive violence shelters. 30:53 A lot of cities and states also have 30:55 victim services departments. 30:56 Like there's one in New York state and DC 30:58 and they can offer officers that can help you 31:01 leave a place, get to a safe place. 31:04 But if you are in an emergency, 31:06 I want you to get away ASAP. 31:09 You can go to a police department, 31:10 you can call 911, you can go to the hospital. 31:14 We all get sick at any time 31:16 You can go there and a doctor has to examine you privately. That is a way that you can get away as well 31:22 But you just if you are in mortal danger get away so important get away 31:26 Well dr. Smalls Monte and Lindsey so great to have you with us. Thank you so much 31:30 And thank you to our listeners for choosing to spend your time with us 31:33 And of course if you're experiencing abuse you can get help by reaching out to the national domestic violence hotline as you heard 31:41 here for confidential support 24-7, 365 days a year. They can be reached at 1-800-799-7233. 31:51 And of course, you can find us, 2020, on Friday nights on ABC, and you can stream episodes like 31:56 this one anytime on Disney Plus and Hulu. Good to see you, and thanks so much for being here. 32:01 Take care. So you're not worried about hosting the whole family for the holidays? 32:12 Why would I be? Wayfair had everything I needed to get the house holiday ready. 32:15 What if Mike brings his tearful dogs? 32:18 My tree has tons of five-star reviews telling me how sturdy it is. 32:21 But what if everyone's plus one brings a plus one? 32:23 We'll see how extendable this extendable table really is. 32:26 And extra chairs are on the way.
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