For the Sake of Transparency (with Natalie Haynes and Michael Gove)

Armando is joined by Natalie Haynes and Michael Gove to discuss the true meaning of transparency.

With his experience as both a politician and a journalist, Michael Gove gives his insight into how transparency can often mean the opposite. He also explains the perverse incentive for ministers to go out and defend tricky positions, and what it feels like to have your private communications laid bare in an inquiry.

And with Natalie on the show, we look at historical examples of turbulent leadership, and find out who has the dubious honour of being 'the Liz Truss of ancient Rome'.

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Sound editing: Chris Maclean Production Coordinator: Asha Osborne-Grinter Executive Producer: Richard Morris Recorded at The Sound Company

Produced by Gwyn Rhys Davies. A BBC Studios production for Radio 4.