Show full transcript 0:25 the postcard perfect scenery. 0:27 If you're ready to discover what's beyond the trailhead, 0:29 listen to Park Predators wherever you get your podcasts. 0:33 Hi crime junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers. 0:36 And I'm Britt. 0:37 And the story I have for you today 0:39 is a case that haunts everyone who touches it. 0:43 The kind of case that most detectives 0:45 only ever see once in their career. 0:47 It's become local lore around Boone County, Kentucky. 0:51 Once word leaked that there could be ritualistic elements 0:54 to the murder of a retired couple in their home, 0:57 you can just imagine the rumors that spread. 1:00 Even more so in the void of information left by police. 1:04 They have been incredibly tight 1:06 with the details about this case. 1:08 But today, for the first time, 1:11 they're sharing some never before released case information 1:15 with us, including the crime scene evidence 1:18 that has recently led them to a man out west. 1:23 And now investigators believe 1:24 that they may finally be closer than ever to solving the murder of Bill and Peggy Stevenson. 2:03 May 29, 2011 is a hot Sunday in Florence, Kentucky. That's also Memorial Day weekend. 2:10 Many people have the next day off, so their Sunday routines are changing a bit. 2:15 Family get-togethers, a day at the lake, maybe a road trip to get out of town. 2:19 But not for Beth Victor, because even though she plans to take her daughter 2:23 to do some shopping to celebrate her graduation, they're still going to church first. Sunday 2:28 always means church for their family. That was ingrained in Beth by her own parents, 2:34 Bill and Peggy Stevenson. But when Beth and her family take their seats in the pews, 2:40 her 74-year-old parents aren't there. And she knows that something is up immediately. 2:45 Bill's a deacon and Peggy plays the organ. They are there every single Sunday, like clockwork. 2:52 So when the service starts it's not just Beth who was like looking around trying to see what's going on the whole 2:58 congregation notices their absence and I can imagine Beth just like 3:03 Sneaking glances at the door expecting them to sneak in at some point during the sermon 3:08 But they never do and after it wraps up 3:12 People are coming up to Beth asking if she knows anything and this is when she learns that it wasn't just this 3:19 service that was missed. 3:22 So her dad, Bill, had this truck stop ministry where he gave church services inside an old 3:27 truck trailer earlier in the morning, and a few of his church friends volunteered there 3:32 as well, and they said that Bill didn't show up to that either. 3:36 Beth spoke to her parents the day before at her daughter's graduation, and they 3:40 were fine, but clearly something happened between now and then. 3:45 So, she asked her husband, Claude, to stop by her parents on his way home, since she 3:49 had already promised her daughter that she was going to take her shopping. 3:52 No problem, right? 3:54 So he heads over to their condo complex. 3:57 Claude lets himself into the building's main entrance and makes his way to the front 4:01 door of their unit on the first floor, but when he knocks, no answer. 4:07 He tries again, still nothing. 4:09 So he walks around to the back of the condo building, because there is a sliding 4:14 glass door that opens directly from their unit to the outside and he notices that the screen door 4:20 is closed but it looks like the glass door isn't so he reaches for the screen expecting it to be 4:25 like latched but that just slides right open and there are these moments when life splits 4:32 into the before and the after and that sliding screen door opened up the world of after for 4:39 him and their entire family because what Claude saw that day was so brutal that it haunts him in a 4:47 way he can't even describe. I mean literally. Beth told us that even 15 years later he couldn't 4:53 bring himself to tell us about what he saw. He declined to speak with us for this episode. 4:59 But we know what he went through because he would later tell police after he called them 5:04 instantly. And he knew without a doubt when he walked into that condo that Bill 5:10 and Peggy were dead. It was Detective Coy Cox from the Boone County Sheriff's 5:15 Office who arrived at the Stephensons condo just before 3 p.m. that afternoon. 5:20 And he told us when he walked through that sliding back door what he saw was 5:24 what he calls a 1% kind of crime the kind of case that you get once in a 5:29 career if you ever get one like this at all. 5:34 He says Bill and Peggy are in two separate rooms. 5:37 One is right by the sliding door and the other is in a back room of the four bedroom condo. 5:43 And there are multiple wounds on both bodies. 5:47 So many that the first word that comes to Detective Cox's mind is overkill. 5:52 But the part that's really haunting is that Detective Cox said they were posed 5:56 in strange positions. And household objects were arranged around them in very specific ways. 6:05 Like how? That's the thing I can't tell you because I don't know. Detective Cox couldn't share 6:12 a lot of details about the scene because this is still an open case. He wouldn't tell us how 6:18 the things were around them or what pose they were in or anything about their exact types of 6:23 wounds, though he did note that there was at least one that was made post-mortem. 6:29 But he would talk to us in a broader sense about the other things he saw in the condo, 6:34 like the fact that nothing valuable seemed to be missing. 6:38 But in every single room he says, things are off. 6:42 Household items were moved or changed in strange ways, and just as a hypothetical, 6:49 He compared it to like opening the fridge and like finding a pen among the condiments stuff 6:54 Just like isn't where it should be right like in a way that stands out 6:57 He also said that some of the items had markings on them that may have been left by the killer 7:03 And that the items seem to be connected to specific family members or friends and that like the way that they were 7:10 Arranged seemed like the killer was indicating who they liked and who they didn't like and 7:17 And there is something about all of these markings and items and their positions that is giving 7:23 those that are there at the scene this feeling of something ritualistic. 7:29 Now whether this was genuinely a ritual killing or if the purpose of the staging and all 7:35 of that was just to make it look like one, they don't know. 7:39 But either way, two Detective Cox, it seems like whoever did this was trying to leave 7:44 some kind of message. 7:45 And to do that, the killer had to clearly be in the place for a while. 7:52 Actually as they process the scene further, investigators are able to confirm a lot about 7:57 the timeline. 7:58 One of the victims, I guess, had a medical device that recorded the exact time of death, 8:04 which Detective Cox told us was sometime in the early hours of that Sunday morning. 8:10 Plus, investigators find a quote timed device indicating that the killer was 8:16 there for as many as eight hours or they like left and came back again like some 8:21 kind of security system like the time device. This is again he wouldn't get 8:26 more specific other than saying it was a timed device but Bill and Peggy's 8:31 daughter Beth did speak with us and she said that her parents didn't have 8:34 an alarm system installed so like I can answer that question I know it 8:38 it wasn't an alarm system. 8:39 Whatever this was, it confirms for police 8:43 that the killer was in that condo for a very long time. 8:47 And there's no way the killer was there for that long, 8:50 like eight hours and didn't leave 8:53 some piece of themself behind. 8:55 Oh, not a chance. 8:56 And they do find, as they're processing, 8:58 like a good amount of forensic evidence. 9:01 Actually, DNA and a partial print. 9:04 the question is what belongs to the killer and what did their killer just 9:11 want them to find because Detective Cox told us that from the very beginning he 9:17 doesn't think that he walked into the original crime scene he thinks he walked 9:22 into the scene that the killer or killers wanted him to find so he's not 9:28 completely certain that the evidence wasn't planted by the killer now he 9:33 He specifically said that the partial print was in a very specific place at the crime 9:38 scene that Detective Cox told us only the killer or killers could have left it. 9:43 But it might not be the print, like based on some carefully worded follow up, it seems 9:49 like maybe this partial print could have been introduced to the crime scene somehow, like 9:56 maybe on some kind of like item that the killer brought in or something. 10:00 I don't know. 10:01 So we have evidence and it seems like it should belong to the killer or killers 10:07 but they won't know for sure until they can match it to someone. The DNA is 10:13 actually good enough for CODIS but they put it in there no hits. Now the 10:18 partial isn't completely enough for AFIS it's only usable for direct 10:22 comparison but Detective Cox is not about to just like sit and like hope 10:26 this thing or like the killer just like comes to him right. He makes sure that 10:30 they mail out copies of that partial print to crime labs in all 50 states and they asked 10:35 them to compare it to their own databases hoping that someone somewhere will uncover a match 10:41 now or in the future. As you can imagine, that's going to take some time. So they had 10:47 to focus on other investigative means. I'm waiting for you to bring up like witnesses 10:53 because someone had to have seen this guy in the complex at some point during all 10:58 this time, right? Not really. They canvassed the condo like neighbors or whatever. Like one says that 11:04 they heard a sound that was like a broom hitting the wall. And then another reports a car parked 11:10 outside the condo around the time of the murders and says that they saw the headlights go off. 11:15 But Cox says that they never found the driver. So like without that, without the license 11:19 plate, like that lead didn't go anywhere. I mean, I personally think that whatever happened 11:24 to them probably happen quick. I mean just just because it was so quiet and like TBD the hour 11:30 it could have been while all of the other neighbors were sleeping. Then all of that staging stuff, 11:36 I mean the stuff that really would have taken the time, that's quiet, that's happening inside, 11:40 like that's not going to draw a ton of attention. So with no helpful witnesses, Detective Cox 11:46 looks closer at the most bizarre piece of evidence, those arranged household 11:53 objects. He wants to know if everything they found at the crime scene actually 11:57 belonged to Bill and Peggy, as it just all moved around, or did the killer 12:01 actually bring something and introduce it to the crime scene. So Beth told us 12:06 that they actually described the objects to her and her siblings asking 12:10 like, does this belong to your parents? Have you seen this before? They asked 12:14 about all kinds of household objects, kitchen items, especially, like things that would have been 12:19 sitting in drawers or cabinets. And at one point, she remembers them asking about a plastic 12:25 pitcher, like the kind that you would make sweet tea in or something like that. 12:29 But here's the problem. Even like the family doesn't always know the answer to that. 12:33 Yeah, I was gonna say like, I don't know everything in my parents' house anymore. 12:38 Like, there's specific things I can think of. 12:40 But I know they still have. Like, yeah, when I was a kid and I lived in the house, 12:43 maybe probably I could have told you every single item, but I have no idea now what my 12:47 mom and dad have, and that is basically what Beth has to tell detectives. 12:51 So another dead end. 12:53 Yeah, and what's more frustrating than not being able to tell them what does or doesn't 12:57 belong in the house is that none of Bill and Peggy's family members can even suggest 13:02 a motive for this crime. 13:05 Everyone police talk to says the same thing about them. 13:09 They're kind, they're generous, they're active in their church, and they help people. 13:15 It's kind of as vanilla as it comes. 13:18 They're high school sweethearts, married for over 50 years, Peggy was pretty shy, mostly 13:22 stayed at home, Bill was the social butterfly of the two, he's always out and about. 13:26 But the two loved each other. 13:28 There were no big money problems that the couple was facing, no seedy side life that 13:33 they kept from their closest friends and family. 13:36 So if Bill and Peggy have no obvious enemies in their day-to-day life, Detective Cox has 13:43 to look at the part of Bill's life where he constantly was interacting with strangers. 13:49 And that would be at that truck stop ministry I told you about. 13:53 It's where Bill spent the majority of his time. 13:56 It's basically like this chapel inside a trailer, like the kind that would be pulled 14:02 by a semi-truck. 14:03 apparently it still had the wheels on it and everything but the inside were like 14:08 some pews and a piano and on Sundays they would open the doors and do a 14:12 service for the truckers there at that local truck stop like people who were in 14:16 town but that's the thing the truckers themselves were not local right 14:20 people come and go constantly truckers from all over the country just 14:25 making a pit stop you know the day that they would be in Kentucky and then 14:32 That is exactly what has made tracking down their very first person of interest so difficult. 14:40 Detectives have a face. 14:42 They have a video, in fact, of a mystery man who seemed to be looking for Bill outside 14:47 inside the chapel just two days before he and Peggy were found dead. 14:57 August is National Wellness Month, but most health trends just mean buying random gadgets 15:01 and guessing at what actually works. 15:03 But I know it doesn't need to be like that, because thanks to Function, you can stop 15:06 guessing and start looking at the actual data behind your body. 15:09 Your daily resilience leaves a clear data trail in your blood, and Function tracks 15:13 the exact markers behind your energy and immunity. 15:16 They give you a deep dive into core biomarkers like white blood cell count to map your 15:20 frontline events, HSCRP to catch hidden inflammation, and your vitamin D and zinc levels. 15:25 They even cross-reference secondary metrics like ferritin and cortisol to see how stress 15:30 is actually impacting you. Over the weekend, I was at a cookout with some friends, one of which 15:34 was also a function member, and it was amazing hearing him talk about how helpful it's been 15:38 for him to learn more about how his body works and how he can help support it best. 15:42 Check in on your health. Function provides over 160 lab tests for $1 per day and member 15:47 pricing on advanced imaging. Join at functionhealth.com slash crimejunkie and use code crimejunkie25 15:52 for a $25 credit. 15:55 Hi Crimejunkies! Someone dropped us a tip that there are 250 reasons to choose T-Mobile, 16:01 and I gotta say, the evidence checks out. Here's an undeniable reason. They have the 16:06 fastest 5G home internet according to Uqla's speed test. Love it in 15 days or your 16:11 money back. Yep, that one's airtight. Another noteworthy reason? It's fast 16:15 and easy to set up too. Plug it in and you're online in virtually no time. With no appointment, 16:21 no technician needed. Those are just a few reasons. Find your reason to switch at t-mobile.com 16:27 slash home internet, where you can check availability and try it for yourself. 16:31 And they're so sure you'll love it, you can get your money back if you don't. 16:35 VAS is according to Euclid speed test intelligence data second half of 2025, 16:39 all rights reserved. Redeem money back guarantee within 30 days of cancellation. 16:42 On Friday, May 27, witnesses saw a man walk up to the trailer chapel and start just banging 16:54 on the door, yelling for Bill. Now, from what they can gather, Bill was likely on site when 17:01 this happened, but nobody actually saw Bill open the door or interact with this guy. And 17:07 there was no security footage from where this trailer is. But there is footage from 17:13 inside the truck stop from around the same time frame and Detective Cox finds 17:18 someone on it who matches the description that witnesses gave. So no one 17:23 knew this guy. No no one at the truck stop and when they show this image to 17:28 Bill and Peggy's family they don't know this guy either which means that he is 17:32 likely a trucker. Right and now could be anywhere because it took them 17:38 some time to find this. So, within 24 hours of collecting this footage, even though it's 17:44 later, the Boone County Sheriff's Office puts out a press release with a still image from 17:48 the video saying that they're looking for this guy and he is a person of interest. 17:53 And soon the tips start pouring in from obviously all over the country. At one point, a man 17:59 in Georgia even comes forward saying that he thinks that he might be the guy in 18:03 the photo but when investigators check his truck logs there's no way that he 18:08 could have been in Boone County at the time frame that they're like looking 18:12 for so he's not their guy and Detective Cox ends up traveling to 18 18:17 different states checking tips out related to this he's stopping trucks 18:23 he is tracking people down he is comparing names from the Chapel log 18:28 And to this day, that guy has still never been identified. 18:34 Which it's kind of weird to me that he hasn't come forward on his own. 18:38 Like that one guy who was like, hey, could be me. 18:41 Which is also kind of weird that youth to think it might be you and it not be you is like. 18:45 But also if you think it's you and you're like, hey, I want to make sure you know this is a dead end. 18:50 Like coming forward right away makes sense. 18:52 But I just keep thinking like maybe. 18:55 because they're right the one option is like oh there's something shady or 18:58 whatever but the other option is like maybe the word just hasn't gotten to him 19:01 so like he's likely not a local so like that's a benefit of a show like ours 19:05 like I know that we have some long-haul trucker crime junkies we met you on 19:10 tour I need them to start spreading the word I'm actually gonna post this 19:16 guy's picture on our blog post I'm gonna put it up on social media so it's 19:19 like good and shareable yeah and like I used to work in transportation I 19:23 to work with truckers like they are a network of resources and information they are so intertwined 19:28 and like keep each other informed about things like this could be huge yeah so it would be great 19:33 if they could help us find this stuff but here's the truth of it though he might not have any 19:38 relevant information about this crime even because it being a random trucker would explain 19:45 why we can't find the killer but it explains almost nothing else like detective cock says 19:51 that he just cannot square like this idea that like a random killer would leave this crime scene, 19:58 the arrangement of the items, the comfort that the killer had spending time in the condo. 20:04 To him it feels personal. And there is another problem with the trucker theory. 20:10 Peggy didn't really have much to do with the chapel ministry. It was like Bill's thing. 20:15 So if someone there had it out for him, you would think it would be about him and 20:20 not Peggy. And if that was the case, Detective Cox said that there would be, like, way less 20:25 risky ways to just get built. I mean, the truck stop chapel itself was pretty private. 20:32 There was like, or at least when no service was going on, right? 20:35 Right. I mean, maybe, like, the killer wouldn't have enough time to do what he wanted to 20:41 do, like, to spend with him now? 20:43 I still just don't understand why you bring Peggy into it at all, though. I mean, 20:47 And I guess unless it was all about the time 20:49 and you knew that she would notice 20:51 if he didn't come home or whatever, 20:52 but like on the flip side of that, 20:55 if this were a stranger who was targeting Peggy 20:58 for some reason. 20:59 Oh, like the other way around. 21:00 The other way around, I think about like, 21:02 she's in the home all the time alone without Bill 21:05 while he's out doing his mission work. 21:07 So on that side, like why bring Bill into it? 21:10 Which is why Detective Cox keeps coming back 21:12 to this idea that he thinks whoever did this 21:15 wanted both Bill and Peggy dead. Which brings him back to the people closest to them. Family. 21:23 And I know I told you that early on the family couldn't think of anyone who would want to kill 21:27 them. That is true. But grasping at straws, like if they had to think of somebody, they did throw 21:34 out one name. Bill and Peggy's nephew, Charles Stevenson, who goes by Stevie. 21:40 And why would they pull out that name? 21:44 If anything they say, it has to do with money. 21:47 So like five years before this in 2006, 21:50 Bill's brother passed away and Bill was the executor of the will. 21:54 Stevie got nothing. 21:56 He wasn't even named in the will. 21:58 But like also it wasn't his dad that died. 22:00 It was his uncle. 22:02 And it wasn't like a huge inheritance or anything. 22:05 But again, we're just like grasping here. 22:07 they're like maybe Stevie thought that Bill and Peggy had cut him out of some money that he felt he 22:12 like was owed or like money that he really needed because what was fact is that Bill and Peggy's 22:19 kids they have three including Beth say that Stevie had some problems with money like he'd 22:24 borrowed money from family members in the past but in this scenario he like his uncle dies 22:30 he waits five years and then kills Bill and Peggy like I said we're grasping here it is 22:36 It is a stretch, but early in the investigation Detective Cox was open to anything like you never know what's going to be important later 22:43 So he had interviewed Stevie and he'd asked him about his money issues and Stevie admitted that he owed some people money 22:52 But he was insistent that he didn't kill his aunt and uncle 22:55 He was cooperative. He submitted his fingerprints and his DNA 23:00 voluntarily and when they were compared against the ones found at the crime scene, no match to 23:05 either thing. But remember, Cox is not convinced that he can totally trust the forensics that 23:12 they found at the scene. If there is a world where they were planted by the killer, then you 23:17 can't really rule anyone out completely. So Detective Cox doesn't fully close the door 23:23 on Stevie. Not that he's actively pursuing him or anything, just like if something comes 23:28 up that gives him a reason to take another look at the guy. He would. And another reason 23:34 does come up in April of 2012. That's when Detective Cox gets this call out of the blue 23:41 from the Indiana State Police. They're investigating a murder and their prime suspect 23:47 only wants to talk to Detective Cox. It's Stevie. He's being looked at in connection 23:53 to the killing of a 67-year-old woman named Lee Jennings. 23:57 Now Lee was found beaten to death 24:00 at her house in Aurora, Indiana, 24:02 which is only like half hour away from Florence 24:04 where Bill and Peggy lived. 24:06 And the murder weapons were a pepper grinder and a skillet. 24:10 Which are kitchen items. 24:12 Indiana police are looking at Stevie 24:14 because he was dating Lee 24:16 and had been borrowing money from her. 24:19 But this time, she said no. 24:21 And the next thing you know, 24:22 someone kills her and steals a thousand dollars from her house. 24:26 What's so weird is when Stevie is in custody, he will not talk about Lee, but he tells the 24:32 Indiana State Police that he will talk to Cox about Bill and Peggy. 24:37 Like he wants a deal? 24:39 No, this isn't about a deal. 24:40 And this is what is so weird to me. 24:42 Like he just said, I'm not going to talk about this thing, but I'll talk about this 24:45 other thing all day. 24:46 And when Cox goes to him, it seems like he gets no more information from him 24:51 than he did when they first spoke. 24:52 He's basically like, 24:53 I had nothing to do with my aunt and uncle's murders. 24:56 I'll answer any questions you have, 24:58 but his answers don't like help their investigation. 25:02 He has the same alibi he always did, 25:05 which by the way, was never a great one. 25:07 Stevie says that he was home asleep in bed 25:09 at the time that Bill and Peggy were killed. 25:12 And investigators are able to find people 25:14 who saw him earlier in the night, 25:17 people who saw him the next morning, 25:19 But during the actual window when Bill and Peggy were murdered Stevie is basically his own alibi 25:24 So they don't get any new info, but they do get new DNA and fingerprint samples 25:31 Not because there was anything wrong with the original like 2011 sample he gave back then Stevie gave like a standard 25:37 I guess 10 fingerprint thing or whatever and investigators wanted palm prints and like other parts of the hand too 25:44 Still, they just want to be safe. 25:46 They run it all again against the Stevenson crime scene, just to be extra, extra short. 25:51 Because like, what are the odds that one person, that people name ends up getting charged with 25:58 murder, but like not that murder, but this one, like, but still, it doesn't matter. 26:02 Stevie still doesn't match in the Stevenson case, that is. 26:07 But in May 2012, Stevie is charged with Lee Jennings murder, and eventually he is 26:13 convicted of that and sentenced to life in prison. 26:16 And while Stevie is behind bars, Detective Cox 26:19 keeps interviewing him, pressing on his supposed alibi, 26:24 but he's not getting anywhere. So Detective Cox goes 26:27 back to the drawing board. When a case like this goes unsolved for 26:32 weeks and then months, every time a promising lead goes 26:36 nowhere, I think it's easy to question yourself a little bit, right? 26:39 Like, did I make the wrong assumption? 26:42 It seems like they knew their killer, 26:44 but like, okay, maybe they didn't. 26:46 This seemed like a staged crime scene, but maybe it wasn't. 26:51 No one has like ritual experts just hanging around 26:53 by the office water cooler to ask. 26:55 So for the first year, nothing was off the table. 26:59 Ritual killing included stage to look like ritual killing. 27:03 Like they were open to any possibility. 27:05 But finally in the fall of 2012, 27:08 Detective Cox decides that he needs some fresh eyes on this. 27:11 People who have seen the 1% crime scene over and over again. 27:16 Someone who can like cut through the noise. 27:18 So he calls in the VDoC Society, 27:21 which is this, you know, professional club of sorts 27:23 made up of former law enforcement forensic specialists 27:26 and they volunteer to help with unsolved cases. 27:30 And they're pretty selective 27:30 about the cases that they take on. 27:33 But when they hear about the Stevenson's case, 27:35 they're all in. 27:36 So Detective Cox goes to their headquarters in Philadelphia, which is like this wooden 27:42 paneled room in this crazy Renaissance building like right out of Sherlock Holmes. 27:46 And there's about a hundred people in the room who Detective Cox and his partner have 27:51 to present to. 27:52 And they don't just give them the glossy overview that we got. 27:55 They share all of the weird and perplexing details of the crime scene. 28:01 And the VDoc Society comes back with a very strong read. 28:04 They say that this was not a genuine ritual killing. 28:10 The ritual elements at the crime scene were probably staged. 28:13 And over the years, as Detective Cox has consulted 28:16 with other agencies like the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit, 28:21 he continues to hear the same thing. 28:23 Listen, we know so little about this crime scene 28:26 that I had to know what would lead an expert 28:29 to even a conclusion like that. 28:32 Yeah, like how do we even get there? 28:33 In general, right. So we talked to Dr. Dawn Pearlmutter, who is a member of VEDOC, who is an 28:37 expert in ritual violence and symbolic crime scenes. Now, she can't say whether she actually 28:43 consulted on the Stevenson's case or not, but she did tell us a little bit about 28:46 how she looks at any crime scene that might be ritualistic. What she's looking for mostly, 28:52 she says, is consistency. Like, do the symbols make sense together? Do the objects 29:00 match the body positioning? 29:03 Does location matter? 29:04 Does the timing matter? 29:06 Is there a coherent pattern? 29:08 So there must not have been those elements 29:11 for everyone to have come to the same conclusion. 29:15 But interestingly, she did share something 29:18 about what is publicly known 29:20 about the Stevenson's case already. 29:22 She said that when you're talking 29:23 about a sophisticated double homicide 29:26 with a lot of positioning, arranging, 29:29 being time spent at the scene, 29:31 that goes beyond what someone needed to commit the crime. 29:36 And in her experience, 29:37 that means it's usually not someone's first time. 29:42 And this seems specific enough 29:44 that if there were other crime scenes like these, 29:47 like investigators would know about it right now. 29:50 Like, it would be evident. 29:53 That's what's so wild to me. 29:54 Because this case, like the details 29:56 have been entered into VICAP, 29:58 Tipsters have tried making connections over the years. 30:01 I mean like to fast forward in our story a little bit, 30:03 the first time I heard about the Stevenson's case 30:05 was after the Delphi murders. 30:07 Because there were rumors about ritualistic, 30:09 like how the scene was set up there. 30:11 Right, and so like by then there are like, 30:14 like certain things had come out about the Stevenson's case 30:16 that like, again, this idea of ritualistic, 30:18 the rumors are running wild. 30:20 Delphi had rumors like that too. 30:21 So people started sending Detective Cox tips. 30:24 He checked those out. 30:26 in that case and others, but like it was a bust. 30:29 Which really proves that this is like a 1% case. 30:33 And nothing is making sense. 30:35 Right, like this doesn't seem like 30:37 it's the killer's first time, 30:39 but also nothing else looks like this. 30:42 And there's overkill and seemingly a personal connection, 30:45 but like no one with a personal connection 30:46 like has a motive to do this. 30:48 And the DNA and the fingerprint seem to belong to a ghost 30:52 because we cannot connect them to literally anyone. 30:56 Well, not so fast. 30:58 There was a ton that Detective Cox couldn't share with us to protect the investigation. 31:05 But the thing he did give us was one huge scoop. 31:10 A development in this case that we're breaking for the first time. 31:15 They recently got a match on the partial fingerprint from their crime scene. 31:20 and you are not going to believe how this happened 31:24 or what has unfolded since. 31:28 In June 2023, 12 years after Bill and Peggy's murder, 31:33 a call comes into the Boone County Sheriff's Office. 31:36 Remember those fingerprints 31:38 that Detective Cox mailed out 31:39 to all 50 states looking for a match? 31:42 A lab technician is on the phone 31:45 and she has finally made a match. 31:53 Crime Junkies, I am so excited because one of my favorite thriller horror classics is 31:59 getting its first ever TV series adaptation, and I am, of course, talking about Stephen 32:05 King's Carrie. 32:06 And this TV adaptation is everything I think this story is truly about. 32:11 Not gruesome horror, but a story about what happens when we make small choices between 32:17 mean kindness or cruelty, and those snowball into something catastrophic. 32:23 Those are the kind of real life stories that we talk about every week on this show. 32:27 And the real dread comes from watching avoidable situations spiral, and it can happen so fast 32:34 in the digital age. 32:35 This edge of your seat cultural event delivers iconic moments with unmatched emotional 32:40 depth. 32:41 So I'm telling you, whether you are a horror fan or not, if you are a crime 32:49 I'm going to be watching, So Don't Miss Out. 32:52 Set a reminder, Carrie is streaming October 7th, only on Prime Video. 32:58 In 2024, a man was killed by the FBI, and to this day, the authorities have refused 33:04 to say why. 33:06 He was a father, an ex-husband, and a Russian-born American citizen. 33:11 He just seemed like a lonely guy, and he needed a friend. 33:14 And he kind of talked about death, didn't he? 33:17 He talked about you just never know when it's your time. 33:21 I'm CNN investigative reporter Isabel Chapman, host of the new limited series, Civilian or Spy. 33:28 They noticed that he was communicating with people that were of concern to the FBI. 33:35 Oh my God, Jesus. 33:36 Head over to the CNN Presents Feed and listen to our three-part series, Civilian or Spy, 33:42 available wherever you get your podcasts. 33:49 When Detective Cox sent out those fingerprint cards 33:52 to all 50 states back in 2011, 33:54 he asked technicians all over the country 33:57 to run them against their own databases 33:59 in case there was ever a match. 34:02 Now with a partial like that, 34:03 you can't just like set it and forget it either. 34:06 Your search is basically only good 34:08 like as a one time search 34:10 comparing against the database 34:11 as it is in that moment in time. 34:13 So Cox, obviously, hoped that they would all keep the Prince, run and re-run them, 34:20 but he never got a single call about them for over a decade. Honestly, by 2023, 34:26 he didn't know if any of the states still hung on to them. But you just need one. 34:32 And one day, Cox gets this out of the blue call from a lab tech out west. Pretty much 34:40 Everything is west of Kentucky, but that's all he'll say a western state 34:44 And this lab tech said that she had heard about Bill and Peggy's case from a podcast and 34:51 She wanted to do her part to help 34:53 So she printed out a copy of the fingerprint card and kept it at her station as a reminder to keep 35:00 rerunning those every so often and 35:04 She put in the work every time a new print came into their system 35:07 she would manually check it against the print from the Stevenson case. 35:11 Print after print, year after year, until one time in 2023, when everything changed. 35:19 It was the print. I would have given anything to talk to this woman. 35:26 Like, what is the moment that you realize that you have? 35:29 Like, this is a one in a million shot, and like, you did it. 35:33 And Detective Cox says that this is the exact reason that he makes it a point to talk, to not just local media, but podcasts like ours that can spread information far and wide. 35:45 He says that you might not get that big tip the day it airs, but you may get a phone call even years later that changes everything. 35:56 And that's the phone call he got. 35:59 And this wasn't just like a, hey, we have a matching print. 36:02 It was, hey, I have a matching print, and I can tell you who it belongs to. 36:07 Now, Detective Cox won't share the name with us. 36:11 He is since retired, but he's still the one that knows so much about this. 36:15 So we even reached out to the current detective on this case, because I wanted to know, like, 36:21 was the print, like, was there another crime committed? 36:24 What can you tell us about this print? 36:26 Yeah, like, don't tell me about him, but like, what can I know about the print? 36:28 And all that the current detective would tell us is that the Prince weren't on file from any previous crime he committed. 36:36 They were on file for other reasons. 36:39 But Detective Cox did say that this man, once he knows his name, obviously he looks into him, 36:46 he has ties to Boone County. 36:48 More than that, he knew Bill and Peggy. He lived in the same area as them. 36:55 But, interestingly, he moved out of Boone County right after the murder. 37:01 Now, Detective Cox doesn't sit on this, like within hours, he is on the phone with this 37:06 guy. 37:06 And he doesn't say anything about the print, just like, hey, I'm investigating this case, 37:11 I've been working at like a long time. 37:13 We just discovered that you might have been associated with the couple, the Stephensons 37:17 from Boone County, Kentucky. 37:19 And this guy admits that he knew Bill and Peggy said that he loved them. 37:22 He will do anything to help solve this case. 37:26 Great. 37:26 That's what Detective Cox says. 37:28 He's like, great, gonna need your DNA and your prints. 37:31 We're getting this from basically everybody 37:32 who loved them and wants to help solve the case. 37:35 And the guy says, yes, he seems super cooperative, 37:38 super willing to help. 37:40 So they make a plan for him to go to some place 37:42 where he lives at 10 a.m. the next day 37:45 to get the samples that they need. 37:47 But at 9.45 the next morning, 37:49 15 minutes before he's supposed to be there, 37:53 he calls up Detective Cox. 37:55 And Cox says that this guy's tone was totally different. 37:58 He says he's not going, 38:00 and if they need anything else from him, 38:02 they should contact his lawyer. 38:04 Which like, a lawyer for an interview, I get. 38:08 A lawyer when you just need to provide a DNA sample, 38:13 and this can be over and done with. 38:16 Same, it's a red flag to Detective Cox too. 38:19 he told us that they've gotten DNA from like 200 different people and only three 38:25 of them have ever gotten an attorney. So he immediately tells the Boone County 38:30 Sheriff what happened and the Sheriff tells him like you go out there and you 38:34 get that sample. Like would have been nice if he gave it voluntarily like they 38:38 got his print right like at the scene. And I might remind you that Cox said quote 38:43 quote, the location of that fingerprint was inside the crime scene and in a place that 38:50 only should be um, left by the perpetrator, end quote. 38:56 So within about a day of hanging up that phone, he is boots on the ground in this mysterious 39:01 western state where he goes to the local judge there and he gets a signed warrant 39:06 for this guy's DNA and his prints, but then when he drives to this guy's house 39:11 to serve the warrant. He won't answer the door. Detective Cox is pretty sure he's in there, but he 39:18 won't answer the door, won't answer the phone, won't come out of the house. 39:23 So he has to go back to the judge for another warrant, which lets them like forcibly go in and 39:30 get this guy's stuff. And they do. They literally have to go in by force. Yes. And 39:37 And homeboys in there and Detective Cox didn't like paint a picture so I don't know if he's 39:41 just like sitting in the middle of his living room waiting for them to come in. 39:45 I don't know if he's like crying in his bedroom closet like my imagination tends to run wild. 39:50 But they get the samples that they need. 39:53 No surprises here. 39:55 The fingerprint matches 100% and the DNA does not. 40:03 What? 40:03 What? 40:03 Now, does this mean that there is another person? 40:08 Is it still possible that the DNA was planted, which Cox had an early theory about? 40:14 I've got an idea. 40:16 How about we ask the guy whose fingerprints are at the scene, like, did you put it there, 40:21 or was someone with you? 40:22 Or was he ever there at all? 40:25 Or if he was, was it before, during, or after the killing? 40:29 And I know that probably sounds bananas, 40:32 but without knowing what or where the fingerprint 40:36 was located on or where it was or in, 40:38 I don't know if we can say that he was there for the murders. 40:43 I mean, Cox said it had to be left by the perpetrator, right? 40:47 Dude, this is like, I feel like we went round and round and round with him, 40:53 with Detective Cox. 40:54 He was super careful with his words. 40:57 I'll try to distill what I think the truth is here and that is that this is a very complicated scene.
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