Why do we invest millions changing customer behavior but ignore how people behave inside companies? In this thought-provoking conversation, behavioral scientist and author Matt Wallaert returns to Change Wired to explore the next evolution of behavioral science: internal change. We discuss why most organizations treat employee behavior as fixed or random — and what it takes to build systems where people grow continuously, without relying on luck, politics, or the next big program. 🔍 In this episode: The economic bias behind why companies fund customer change but not employee change. How to make behavioral science practical inside organizations — linking people systems to business outcomes. 3 pillars of employee motivation. The problem with measuring value of employees through opportunity instead of capability. The Boy Scouts model of development : advancing by demonstrated skills, not politics. The trap of “participation-trophy culture” — and how to make growth easier without lowering standards. How leaders can start — by documenting their own growth goals first. The future of meaningful work : designing systems where people stay not because they have to, but because they can grow . 💡 Key Takeaways: Growth is not a perk — it’s a human need and business driver . People don’t resist growth and change — they resist misaligned systems that make it hard. Making it easier ≠ lowering the bar ; it means adding clarity and support. The simplest place to start culture change ? Write down where you’re going and how you’ll get there. Companies that measure capability, not just output, unlock deeper innovation and resilience . 🎯 Why you should listen: If you’re leading transformation, culture change, or talent growth strategy — this episode gives you a blueprint for building systems that make growth inevitable. Matt offers practical, evidence-based steps any leader can apply , starting tomorrow. 👉 Listen to the full episode to learn how to turn growth into your company’s competitive advantage — one behavior at a time. 👤 Matt Wallaert – Short Bio Matt Wallaert is an applied behavioral scientist , author, and public speaker known among other things for pioneering how behavioral science can drive organizational change . He currently serves as a Chief Experience Officer at Oceans , leading initiatives that combine behavioral insights with systems design to help companies improve performance, motivation, and growth. Previously, Matt was Microsoft’s Director of Behavioral Science , the Chief Behavioral Officer at Clover Health , and the author of Start at the End: How to Build Products That Create Change . He has advised Fortune 500 companies, governments, and startups on building behaviorally informed systems that make doing the right thing the easy thing. 📚 Learn more and connect: 🌐 mattwallaert.com 💼 LinkedIn: Matt Wallaert 📚 Book: Start at the End Text Me Your Thoughts and Ideas Support the show Brought to you by Angela Shurina Behavior-First, Executive, Leadership and Optimal Performance Coach 360, Change Leadership & Culture Transformation Consultant
