In this episode of The Learning & Development Podcast, David James is joined by Laura Overton and Michelle Ockers, co-authors of the new book The L&D Leader: Principles and Practice for Delivering Business Value.
Together, they explore why the L&D profession must shift from delivering learning to driving business value and how leaders at every stage of their career can navigate this change. Drawing on 20+ years of benchmark data and hundreds of practitioner interviews, Laura and Michelle share their TRY and be BOLD frameworks, the navigation metaphor that underpins their book and practical insights for applying principles rather than clinging to rigid models.
This conversation is a call to action for L&D professionals who want to stop getting stuck in old job descriptions, start tuning into business priorities, and step into their true potential as navigators of change.
Take your L&D to the next level
Take advantage of thousands of hours of analysis. Hundreds of conversations with industry innovators and 25+ years of hands-on global L&D leadership.
It's all distilled into one framework to help you level up L&D. Access the L&D Maturity Model here - https://360learning.com/maturity-model
KEY TAKEAWAYS
High‑impact L&D leaders act as wayfinders: they co‑create a clear picture of business value with stakeholders, then continuously read signals from the organisation and course‑correct, rather than follow a fixed plan or model.
Instead of chasing the next model or tool, effective L&D is grounded in learning science, fuelled by curiosity and opening up more impactful options than “just another course.”
What really differentiates impactful L&D leaders are their thinking habits: being business‑first, open‑minded, leading and learning, and deliberate – a practical inner compass for bolder, better decisions.
BEST MOMENTS
“The horizon is getting closer to us. The amount of time between a shift and us needing to have people ready for that shift is so tight now that our traditional approaches cannot respond quickly enough.”
“The (traditional) models, can restrict us …. (and) can actually crush people´s ambition.”
“You are a learning change maker.”
Laura Overton Bio
Laura Overton is an award-winning learning analyst, author, and international speaker with over 30 years of experience in the learning industry. Best known as the founder of Towards Maturity, Laura led 15 years of research exploring how learning innovation drives business value, working with thousands of L&D leaders worldwide. Today, Laura continues to champion evidence-based practice, helping learning professionals move beyond models and frameworks to embrace principles that unlock real business impact.
Michelle Ockers Bio
Michelle Ockers is a respected workplace learning strategist, speaker, and podcaster. With a background that spans the Royal Australian Air Force, corporate leadership roles and global consulting, Michelle has a reputation for helping organisations modernise learning and build business-ready capabilities. Michelle is the host of the Learning Uncut podcast, where she shares real-world stories of L&D in action. Her work brings together evidence, practice, and community to support learning leaders in navigating complexity with confidence.
LINKS
The L&D Leader Book: https://www.koganpage.com/hr-learning-development/the-l-d-leader-9781398620278
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelleockers/
https://learninguncut.global/
https://learninguncut.global/podcast/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauraoverton/
https://learningchangemakers.com/
VALUABLE RESOURCES
L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home
CONTACT METHOD
https://twitter.com/davidinlearning
https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin
https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective
This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/
