On the podcast I talk with Sherina about why performance marketing eventually hits a ceiling, how to think about measure brand marketing, and why sometimes ignoring A/B test results leads to better outcomes. Top Takeaways: 📈 Freemium can’t feel cheap Deezer once took a hardline approach to converting free users – limiting features to push them toward paid plans. The result? Users didn’t upgrade; they just left. The best freemium models strike a balance: give users real value, build habit and trust, then make the premium experience feel like a natural next step. 💡 Bundles and partnerships – growth without the ad spend Instead of relying solely on ads, Deezer fuels growth through partnerships. Deals with telcos, hardware companies, and retailers like Sonos and Mercado Libre help put the app in front of millions of potential users. Bundling subscriptions with other services doesn’t just expand reach – it makes premium features feel like a built-in perk rather than an extra cost. 🎯 Performance marketing won’t scale on its own Performance marketing can be an incredible growth engine – until it isn’t. As Deezer scaled, Sherina Khalidi saw firsthand how it eventually hits a ceiling. Brand marketing plays a crucial role in breaking through, keeping Deezer top of mind so performance campaigns can work more efficiently. Without that balance, acquisition costs rise, and growth stalls. 🚀 Measuring brand marketing when the usual tools fall short Traditional attribution models struggle to capture the impact of brand marketing. At Deezer, Sherina and her team use a mix of media mix modeling, incrementality testing, and brand lift studies to fill in the gaps. Even when direct tracking isn’t possible, data-backed decisions still are. 🔍 Why ignoring A/B test results sometimes leads to better outcomes A/B tests can be powerful, but they don’t always tell the full story. When Deezer tested new homepage designs, the data suggested sticking with an old, cluttered version – but Sherina’s team knew it wasn’t the right long-term choice. By trusting their instincts and focusing on user experience, they saw better results over time. Sometimes, the best decisions aren’t the ones that win the test. About Sherina 👨💻 VP of Performance Marketing at Deezer , a popular music and audio streaming platform. 🎶 Sherina has spent nearly a decade at Deezer, driving sustainable growth through freemium, performance marketing, and strategic partnerships. 💡 “Freemium only works if it’s actually free. Take away too much, and users won’t upgrade—they’ll just leave. The best freemium models build habit and trust before making the upsell.” 👋 LinkedIn Follow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnard Jacob Eiting - @jeiting RevenueCat - @RevenueCat SubClub - @SubClubHQ Episode Highlights: [1:10] Capitalizing on the opportunity: How Deezer took advantage of a cultural shift to become one of the pioneers of monthly subscriptions in the music industry. [3:37] Changing their tune: Why the Deezer team pivoted from trying to frustrate users into paying for a subscription to leveraging strategic advertising partnerships. [10:23] A David and Goliath story: How Deezer competes with large audio streaming brands like Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Apple Music, and Spotify. [16:12] Playing the long game: Brand marketing may not provide immediate returns in revenue, but a solid brand image and positive user sentiment make performance marketing more effective. [24:47] Measurement re-mix: How media mix modeling and incrementality testing can help you understand the effects of your marketing efforts better than basic tracking and attribution. [34:16] Calculated risks: To succeed with performance marketing, you have to be willing to innovate, test, and learn from failure. [38:32] Gut instinct: Data can help you understand what is and isn’t working, but it can also be misleading — sometimes you just have to trust your instincts. [40:36] Knowing your audience: How user-centricity can help you make better marketing decisions.
