Episode 29: Confessions, cues and contradictions

In Episode 29 of Fool Me Twice, Bradford Oakes and Steve Van Aperen explore deception, interviewing techniques, body language, tunnel vision, and the importance of rapport when trying to uncover the truth. The episode begins with some light-hearted conversation about Bradford’s recent country comedy gigs, wildlife on Australian roads, and the differences between metropolitan and regional audiences. Bradford explains that country audiences often share a stronger sense of community, which can make them more relaxed and willing to participate, while Steve reflects on how observation and audience feedback are essential skills in both comedy and investigative work.

The discussion then shifts to Steve Van Aperen’s experience as an investigator and his training with the FBI. Steve argues that effective interviewing is not about intimidating or blaming suspects. Instead, investigators should build rapport, listen carefully and make it easier for people to talk. He describes the FBI concept of “theme development,” where responsibility may be framed around circumstances, pressure or mistakes rather than immediately condemning the person being questioned. Steve also recounts interviewing a bikie suspected of involvement in a stabbing. Although the man repeatedly answered “no comment” during the formal interview, an earlier conversation about his estranged son helped establish enough rapport that he secretly left Steve the name of the person police were seeking.

Bradford Oakes brings humour and scepticism to the conversation, questioning familiar crime-show conventions such as FBI agents announcing themselves from a distance before suspects inevitably run. Steve responds with real policing stories showing that suspects do sometimes flee, although announcing an arrest too early is not always wise.

A major theme is the danger of tunnel vision and confirmation bias. Steve warns that investigators can become attached to a theory and selectively interpret evidence to support it. Bradford compares this with comedy, where people can invent an explanation for almost any situation if they begin with a fixed assumption.

The pair also challenge simplistic interpretations of body language. Crossed arms, fidgeting or looking in a particular direction do not automatically indicate deception. Steve stresses the need to establish a behavioural baseline, watch for changes, and examine clusters of verbal and non-verbal cues. Ultimately, the episode argues that detecting deception requires evidence, careful listening, behavioural observation and an open mind, not reliance on stereotypes or single “tells.”

LINKS

Book Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here

Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here

Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au

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