In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the return‑to‑office debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, they ask, “What problem are you actually trying to solve?”
They explore evidence on hybrid work, weak‑tie innovation, culture and belonging, and why some leaders still cling to “butts in seats” as a proxy for performance. Along the way, they introduce a systems‑thinking “iceberg” tool for getting below the surface of policy fights to the patterns, structures, and mental models driving them.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - What’s Surprising Us About This Podcast?
1:49 - Return to Office
22:06 - Challenging Your Return to Office Mental Model
34:15 - Birth Order
40:18 - Tradeoff Between Authenticity and Editing
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